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Sparkey v Lloyds


Sparkey
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I decided I would go and talk face to face with my local branch about the charges that have been taken from my account. Before I arrived I had spent the weekend reviewing my account, writting down all my questions, making notes of specific points and prepared my letter requesting the charge be repaid. At the bank I was taken by a very nice lady into a quiet room to discuss my account during this conversation about charges she remained firm stating that the charges are fair and justified and that I did know about them as they notifiy me everytime and that they would not refund them. She could not give a breakdown of the charges but did agree that the letters where computer generated. I found that I had to keep going over the point of the charges being excessive and unfair and was begining to sound like a stuck record - in the end and very aware that the time was running out on my parking ticket and my young daughter was screaming her head off, I gave the nice lady my letter after asking her to sign my form the confirm that she had received my letter and would pass it on. She took my contact details - now we just wait.

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I didn't think it was pointless because she agreed at the end the charges were the cause of the problem and it got my letter delivered free!!!!

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  • 5 months later...

HELP !! I have now got going on my claim against the lloyds. I followed the instructions for the money claim copying it exactly filling in my details. They have disputed the full amount of the claim and sent N149 to fill in.

 

I had a look round to see if their defence was a general one, the only difference I can see is in pointS 4 & 5 "The particulars of Claim do not comply witht he Civil Procedure Rules as (amongst other things) they do not how (THIS IS EXACTLY HOW IT WAS WORDED) the sum of £681.75 is arrived at and the Particulars of the Claim are too vague. The Statement of claim shows noreasonable grounds for bringing the claim.

5. The Claimant should, therefore, be ordered to file and serve an amended claim to set out the basis in law and fact for her claim as there is no pleased basis for the claim itself. The Claimant should give full particulars of the Bank Account and the charges she is seeking to recover, identifying each charge, the date and amount of the charge and why the climant in each case she alleges it is a disproportionate penalty and thus unlawful.

 

Do I just follow the notes for the allocation questionnaire or do I need to do something else?

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Just need a bit of clarification that I am on the right path.

 

Have submitted my claim on-line (I used the step by step guide and exact wording for Moneyclaim). Have recieved a defence from Llloyds (a 14 point one) and a allocation questionnaire. After looking round other threads I worked out my error which was not sending a breakdown of the charges after I had submitted my claim on-line, letter duly done. I have filled in the allocations questionnaire and it is ready to send off with a copy the breakdown of the charges. Now do I have to send a copy of the charges to Llloyds solicitor (Sechiari Clark & Mitchell, Brighton) as well or will just sending a copy to the court be enough?

 

Point 5 of the defence says that "The claimant should, therefore be ordered to file and serve an amended claim to set out the basis in law and fact for her claim as there is no pleased basis for the charges she is seeking to recover, identifying each charge, the date and amount of the charge and why the claimant in each case she alleges it is a disproportionate penalty and thus unlawful. - Do I have do an amendment? I copied the wording exactly from the step by step guide - did I do something wrong?

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Section G - Other Information

In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage or clarify the claim, including any other information you consider should be supplied by the other party.

Give details of any other information that you consider will help the judge to manage the claim, referring as necessary to any documents you might have attached. Bear in mind however that at this stage you need not attach all other documents that you wish the court to consider at the hearing. This is something you will later be asked to provide. If you have not previously given a copy of the charges breakdown, showing dates and amounts plus interest, then let the court know here that you are attaching 2 copies of this with your reply.

 

 

Send SCM a copy of your AQ + schedule.

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I followed the guidelines for filling out the allocation questionnaire. I have run out of space is section G is it ok to continue on another piece of paper to include the bit about attaching copies of the breakdown.

 

The lloyds have had this breakdown several times before as each time I have sent them a letter I have attached a copy.

 

Further more I was surprised at the quality of the defence (in terms of typing errors and general layout, using question marks for apostophies) I had expected a bit more quality to it considering this is legal process.

 

Abbey National £278.00 of charges paid in full after receiving moneyclaim.

Capital Bank £256.00 of charges paid in full on receiving letter before action (they actually included the court fee and I hadn't even got that far!!!!!)

Llloyds Bank £681.00 Defence received 28 Oct

Barclay Bank £700.00 Money claim sent 23/10 - No reply as yet

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Sparkey, can I just ask what did you put as your particulars of claim? Did you use the template?

 

If you did you could use this in section G;

 

 

ALLOCATION QUESTIONNAIRE N149 / N150

 

 

 

Section G / J Other information

 

The defendant in its defence contends that this claim is not suitably particularised and the statement of claim is “embarrassing” and shows no reasonable grounds for the claim to be brought. The Claimant disagrees with this contention entirely. The claims particulars clearly state the statutory and common law provisions on which this claim relies, and the claimant will of course elaborate upon the claim particulars at such time as is required upon the direction of the court. Further, contrary to the contention of the defendant, the relevant numbers of the account in question were clearly identified in the claimant’s particulars of claim, and a full schedule of the charges which form the sum claimed from the defendant was sent to Northampton bulk court on the day of issue for inclusion alongside the claims particulars. Additionally, the defendant was served with this information on two occasions previously within a 28 day period allowed by the claimant to attempt to resolve the issue prior to the commencement of this litigation. For the sake of expediency, I have attached another copy of the schedule to this allocation questionnaire.

 

As is known to the defendant, I am a litigant in person in this case. It is respectfully submitted that the contentions of the defendant are highly likely to be an attempt to distress and intimidate, rather than presenting any valid or reasonable objections to the clarity of the Particulars of claim.

 

Follow the above with the guide notes from the templates library, ie, the request for allocation to the small claims track and for an order of standard disclosure.

 

It's fine to attach a seperate sheet for section G, as long as you properly head it.

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Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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I followed the guide for the N149 as that is what I have been sent. As I have already written on it I am going to have to get another one as I think it needs to be a bit of a mixture of the two.

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Received Allocation Questionnaire from Sechiari, Clark & Mitchell today. They have asked me to acknowledge safe receipt and also to let them have a copy of my Allocation Questionnaire. - Do I need to give them a copy?

 

All they have put in section G is "The Defendant intends tor eply on its defence and the Terms and Conditions that Govern the account".

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  • 2 weeks later...

Standard order for stay for settlement with consent of all the parties was sent to me today. What on earth do I do with this now!. The Judge has ordered a stay until 19 December to "enable the parties to attempt settlement" Ha, they have had plenty of attempts to sort it out!. It then goes on to say that on or before 3/1/07 one of the following steps must be taken either I have to let them know that the whole claim has been settled or if no settlement to file and serve draft directions for the courts consideration, this has to be done by 10/1/07.

 

The Judge has allocated this to the small claims track.

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So did you request the months stay on your AQ as well then? The order says with consent of both parties.:confused:

 

Oh well, send them this and a copy to the court;

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

I write in relation to the above claim (put claim details at top of letter) and specifically the staying order placed upon it by the court on **/**/**.

 

You requested this stay to be ordered in the Allocation Questionnaire of the defendant, in order that a settlement is reached by way of negotiation. The court has subsequently acceded to your request and I am therefore inviting you to offer your proposal's for the settlement of these matters.

 

I am writing on the assumption that your request to the court was made in utmost good faith and with the genuine intention of resolving the matter in hand, rather than merely an attempt to further delay proceedings in this case. I trust that as the representative of a reputable and esteemed organisation, you would not hold the honourable court's order in such contempt as not to respond to this letter positively and in the manner in which your request for the stay has indicated.

As such, I will expect a response prior to the date set by the court, **/**/** informing me of how you intend to proceed.

 

A copy of this letter has also been sent to the court.

 

Yours faithfully

 

Post it, fax it and follow up with a phone call.

Please remember to DONATE! Help CAG keep up the fight!

 

 

Any advice or opinion is offered informally & without liability. Use your own judgment and if in doubt seek advice of a qualified and insured professional.

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  • 2 weeks later...

:) Received today from Sechiari Clark & Mitchell, Without Prejudice, Confidential and Privileged, a full and final settlement on behalf of Lloyds

 

The letter says

 

The Bank intends to defend these proceeding on the grounds that the legal basis for your claim is incorrect.

 

1) As a matter of law, whether or not a clause providing for a payment is a penalty only arises where there has been a breach of contract.

 

2) When you asked the Bank to make payments from you account that would have caused you to exceed any overdraft you had previoulsy agreed with it, you were requesting it to agree to a new or higher overdraft. Your request to the Bank to make a payment was not a breach of contract: not were you in breach of contract when the Bank either agreed to make payment, or declined to do so

 

3) The Bank was entitled to charge a fee for, amongst other things, urgently considering you request and for telling you it had agreed to it; alternatively for telling you it had not been agreed to it and returning the payment through the clearing system.

 

4) You were aware of the existence and amount of the fees that the Bank charged for these services and they were properly due under the contract between you and the Bank

 

5) Your claim for replayment of these fees is therefore misconceived.

 

As you have read, the Bank, together with other major banks is presently discussing the legal basis for these charges with the Office of Fair Trading. The Bank consideres it unhelpful to pre-empt the outcome of those discussions by requiring the court to adjudicate on a particular claim, especially because the legal and other costs involved can easily exceed the amount in issue regardless of who "wins" at the end of the day. This is as true for you as it is for the Bank.

 

Accordinly, the bank is, without prejudice to the position set out above, willing to pay you the £681.75, plus the Court fee of £80.00 in full and final settlement of the claim.

 

It them goes on to say that the terms of agreement are confidential between parties, we must agree to maintain our account withing the Banks agreed limits and in accordance to the terms that govern the accounts. If we don't they will charge us fees again!!!!

 

They need both myself and husband to sign.

 

Moderated 3 threads merged ..please keep to the one thread when updating or asking questions, thanks

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This is a standard reply .I would still go for the full amount and wouldn't let them have 1p of my money

I would accept it as a partial payment and make it clear you are still claiming for the rest

but thats me :)

When you want to fool the world, tell the truth. :D

Advice & opinions of Janet-M are offered informally, without prejudice & without liability. Use your own judgment. Seek advice of a qualified insured professional if you have any

doubts.

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I am not sure if this helps anyone, but i have read a number of threads regarding the use of 'without prejudice' on the top of letters and just wanted to say that just because a letter states 'WP' it does not auotmatically follow that the enitre contents of the letter are. For example, taking the letter above the only part of the text that would likely be deemed 'WP' by a court is the penultimate paragraph stating the actual sum being offered. So if you wanted to use this letter in your court bundle providing you blacked out that paragraph you could (probably sucessfully) argue for rest of the letter to be read by the court.

 

i apologise if this has already been explained in the threads. I mention it because someone may a get a letter which would be useful in advancing their case, should one ever get to court, but feel they were unable to disclose it because it was headed up 'WP'

 

regards

 

Paula

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