caught using MIL's freedom pass - 50+ uses **RESOLVED**

[Jeboz]

Hello everyone,

 

I am new here and it seems that I have a big problem and I need your help!

 

Yesterday my husband was caught by inspector touching out my mom Freedom pass. My husband lied and said he just found it yestersay and decided to use it to save some money on travel bcoz he is not working regularly due to the pandemic. The inspector confiscated ny mom freedom pass and took my husband details. 

 

Today we received the standard letter to fill up the form on the back and to explain guilty/not guilty.

 

Now I am confused what to do. There is few details in the story. 

 

1- my mom is from Eastern Europe and have surname completely different from my husband he is with Asian origin. The picture of the pass as well dont make any connection btw them both. BUT my mom card is registered on the same address?!?! And I already reported it lost yesterday and received an email that new card is on the way in 5-7days.

 

2- my husband was using this card for about a year, but it was really irregular as he is on furlough and really not working that much, also touching his own card on mornings bcoz the freedom is not working in peek times.

 

3- my husband was caught on different station and not on the one that he usually uses the card to go to work.

 

4- my husband was caught about a year ago (or a bit more) "jumping" out. Then he said he is guilty and sorry and we paid the fine. Then he throw his oyster and bought a new one but his details are still within the record i think.

 

Now what we are worried is the court!

 

We are in process of buying a property and my husband also need a clear criminal record for his 2nd job so we need to avoid the court.

What should I do?

Should I find a lawyer?

How this can affect job and house-buying?

What is best to write in the letter- continue with the lie that he found the card and hope they will not check the freedom details OR say what really was and wait for the punish?

 

am really very scared and worried and all. I have seen the remorse letters and I will make a good one but which story to write?

 

I am scared that if I lie that he found it and then they find out that the address is the same and he is lying it can get worse.

Please any information and advice will be much appreciated.

 

Thanks

[BankFodder]

You should certainly not lie. He should put an end to the dishonesty apart from anything else because you will be found out, it will catch up with you and the situation will be very very much worse.

Your best course of action would be simply to plead guilty and to explain how sorry you are and how you have taken a shock and they can be certain that it won't happen again and you would like to make reparations for any money that should have been paid.

Being completely honest and transparent is the only thing to do.

[dx100uk]

hi welcome to cag.

 

i pers would not worry about the previous uses of the card. there is no way they can tell who used the card, especially if it was sporadic, it could have been the legit card holder unless there is a distinct pattern of repeated travel? overall how many times in the last do you think he used the card?

 

the bottom line is repeated confirmed use will mean those are taken 'into consideration' (TIC) when/if a SJ court notice is given and he just signs them off, they will only charge for one the use when he was stopped.

 

you don't need a solicitor no. just a good grovelling letter.

 

you don't need to lie on the reply but you most certainly don't need to put your foot in it either and cough up to use they can't actually prove WAS him should they not mention the 'other uses'

 

answer my questions and lets see.

 

dx

 

 

 

[Jeboz]

This is the letter we received. So the card is from new year. He maybe used it 15 time jan and feb, then completely not end of feb and full march and half april as we were abroad. Then half april, may, june, july maybe 3-4 times a week once a day from st. john wood station. He got caught on Tothenham. 

 

So do you say he need to explain that he lied about finding the card and explain that this is his mother in law card and he took it this day as he was out of pocket???? I am very worried that if he explain they may investigate further and catch him using it for long. On the other hand if he apologise for using the "found card" they may catch him lying if they check the freedom address. 

 

 

[dx100uk]

read upload attach the redacted letter as a PDF only

 

so not just a few times then, this could be almost 100 uses and there will obv be a pattern they will see. this puts it within the realms of being very difficult to get an out of court settlement, the fact he lied is immaterial really if the above is true

 

here are a few old threads on CAG

Programmable Search Engine

CSE.GOOGLE.COM

 

click the link go read them all

sadly few comeback and tell us how they got on 

 

lets see the letter please

[Jeboz]

initial letter from tfl

 

 

initial tfl letter.pdf

[dx100uk]

good just the std letter they send everyone with offence(s) .

 

you need to respond by email within 10days.

as with reading the all the threads in the other link i posted earlier

 

you might find this one useful.

 

 

[Jeboz]

Yes, it is the standard letter yes. I am noticing from the forum that most people using Freedom are receiving straight court letters few months after the offence. Now my husband received a letter on the next day. When he was asked to show the freedom pass he didnt know what is this as he was really not aware what is this, he knew it is just free oyster. So he finally showed it and lied to the inspector that he found it on the road and used it to save money. Is it possible that the inspector consider this as normal " not paid ticket" case and not a Freedom abuse case? And what if he just write:

 

I plead guilty and I am deeply sorry for using oyster card that doesnt belong to me. It was really stupid action and I apologise. I will never do it again. I didnt realise the seriousness of this crime till now.

 

Written this way he doesnt say he lied and he is not showing that this is Freedom pass. But he plead guilty and he knows he is wrong.

 

Is it possible that they believe he found it and not check any more details?!?!?? It is my mom card, she doesnt know anything about it and she will honestly kill me if she undestand what we did.

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

It's hard for us to tell what TfL will think when they see your OH's response. As I understand it, TfL can check on usage of a Freedom card for the last two months but if you're lucky, they will only think about the last journey. We don't know.

 

The main thing is to stop using the card and reply to their letter honestly.

 

HB

[Jeboz]

Oh yes, most definitely not using the card! 

I am just very worried about any court letters!

[honeybee13]

Well,  you're not at court letter stage at the moment. Your OH needs to reply to TfL's letter.

 

When he replies, I would add something along the lines of he would be very grateful if TfL would allow him to repay the unpaid fare plus their reasonable costs in order to avoid a court case. Or something like that.

 

TfL don't like Freedom Card abuse and I think I'm right in saying that there's something on the back of the card that says it needs to be displayed with a photocard owned by the card holder, although I can't remember exactly.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

as i pointed there are examples of what to write, you need to fluff that out for sure expanding upon the impact a criminal record will have on you and whom are your dependants. going forward, employment , income .etc etc

 

it is worthy to note by looking at the threads here there are several whereby months of usage were listed in the TIC court charges sheet, so don't rely upon them not going back into history to look.

 

if they do then you will be very very lucky to avoid a Single Justice Procedure court claim

[Jeboz]

Thank you. I have checked other cases in the forum, will write a letter answer and lets see. Will update once I have something new.

[Jeboz]

Hello again,

 

my husband sent grovelling letter back In August. But no luck with it and now we received a court letter. I will attach copy of it and pls advice me what are now the options

 

Is there an option for ooc settlement or not?

Also I found out that if court and plead guilty then this will stay on his criminal record for 1 year.

Does that mean that his enhanced dbs will show clear after 1 year?

Also does that affect applications for mortgage, loans, etc?

 

Thank you in advance!

 

Also we have a copy of the list with the TIC 53 journeys

 

requisition to attend Mag Court - 53 uses.pdf

[dx100uk]

yes you can OOC even on the day.

 

so time to get grovelling again.

 

we didnt see your 1st one, so might be an idea to pop that up, so we can help poss improving your chances.

 

just under £400 is not too bad, we've seen double this for half as many journeys.

 

you key here will be remorse, payment of travel and proof since and damage a conviction will cause the familt going fwd.

 

it wont hurt mortgage nor credit nor dbs enhanced outside of 1yrs?, should it happen and you get a record.

 

 

[BazzaS]

It used to be that an offence was never ‘spent’ for the purpose of an enhanced DBS : they were “enhanced” for a reason!.

 

This got altered in 2020.

for an eDBS : Convictions,

i) for an adult,

ii) for an offence that didn’t attract a prison sentence (or suspended prison sentence),

iii) that aren’t on the list of offences that never get ‘filtered’,

now get filtered after 11 years.

 

https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/what-will-be-filtered-by-dbs/

 

Edited November 1, 2021 by BazzaS

[dx100uk]

so 11yrs?

 

dx

[BazzaS]

That’s what ‘unlock’ say.

 

Whether a Byelaw conviction is “recordable” (to show on any DBS) : I still haven’t seen a definitive answer for.

 

If not “recordable” whether it would show under “other information at chief officer’s discretion” on an eDBS : again, I’m not sure.

 

Posters don’t seem to come back to tell us / confirm one way or another……

 

[Jeboz]

Thank you for your replies. I am attaching the previous letter so you can help me do a better one now. I have read all the topics and examples in previous conversations.  Really really worried about it. I can't even sleep properly. 

 

Now...I have contacted a solicitor company just out of interest and they asked for £700 just to send letter to Tfl. Also they said in worst case scenario and criminal record this will be for 1 Yr. Just for the record and it may help others.

 

Now Bazza...I m confused...is it gonna be 11 years or 1 Yr on his criminal record and DBS?

 

Also on the court letter there is no the TFL email or any address for tfl. Do I send the grovelling letter to the same email as initially?

 

Thanks a lot for all your help! We are really stressed and ashamed! And we never knew this was so serious!

 

1ST BEGGING LETTER.pdf

[dx100uk]

A solicitor is a waste of money seriously..don't go there 

 

I'll pop back later to help 

 

Get some sleep. It's really no big deal 

 

Dx

[Jeboz]

This is what I wrote... 

Do I need to mention the 53 journeys that he needs to pay or said like this "any fines charged" is enough? I mean should I be more specific?

Thanks

 

 

Dear sir or madam,
I am writing to you again and I would really like to stress to you that I am genuinely, extremely sorry for my actions and I want to ensure you that I will not do anything like this ever again! I feel very shameful for my behaviour!

As a sole income earner for my family a criminal record would be devastating for me as my employment relies upon a clean criminal history. I work two jobs in order to meet ends. I do dry cleaning and security job.

 

For my security job I need a clean enhanced DBS and if I get a  criminal record it means I will not be able to work which will make my financial situation even harder.

I am a hard working man, with two small children (2 and 5 year old). My wife is not working as she is looking after the kids. I am also trying to support my sister in Pakistan who became a widow last year at age of 33

It has been hard year for me with the pandemic and all. I pride myself on my integrity and honesty and this is my first ever offence of any legal matter. And it is surely the last! I am really upset that I made this mistake and now I'm in this awful situation.

I am asking TFL to allow me to pay the reasonably incurred costs in full to dispose of the matter without court actioning order to prevent getting a criminal record. I will take full responsibility for covering the cost of any fines charged.

Once again I deeply apologise, I am very stressed and anxious about the situation and I really really hope that you can show some leniency in this matter.

Please find attached a proof of my security job and the DBS that is required.
Yours faithfully,

[BazzaS]

Did you ask them specifically about an enhanced DBS, or just the routine DBS?

[Jeboz]

I am mentioning in the letter that he need enhanced dbs for his job. Although this is for his 2nd job and not the main one that he works full time...

[BazzaS]

“Did you ask them specifically about an enhanced DBS, or just the routine DBS?”

 

So : did you ask the solicitors about an eDBS (regarding when you got told “1 year”), or might their reply of “1 year” been for the standard DBS?

[dx100uk]

i would be adding proof of how since the incident and going forward payment of relevant travel costs has happen, ie by a season ticket etc. 

 

i think TBH you are apologising too many times . start the letter by acking that you did wrong by doing xyz, then follow with the reason why it was done, and that you willingly admitted such to the inspector. then apologise inc being sorry for wasting staff time etc.

 

then outline how a criminal record would destroy and effect xyz in yours and other lives and state how payment since has been made and going forward.

 

then ask for an OOC settlement meeting all reasonable admin costs and payment for the journeys made.

 

then end with the hope it can can be settled without a criminal record, and lastly another sorry/grovel.