Darling 2 takes on the TSB**won**

[darling1]

The Aq is a N150.

I am a lilttle confused about the new stategy,as when I read the Bankfodder sticky about it , it was all about advice for the small claim, giving directions as if I was small claims -I amobviously going t be fast track, Do you think I should I should put small claims in the part that says what track do you concider to be the most suitable for my claim? (even though it is for £11000 + and at this point, can I add any extra costs incurred, like the £10.00 SAR I forgot to add and postage /papers/ costs etc?? How long will my trial time estimate at??

[darling1]

HELP -

I have been filling in the AQ form,In pencil!! I have a few quiries regarding the N150, (claim for over £11000)

1, Track - I have been advised that I could still ask for it to go through the smallclaim track - but did we decide that it would be quicker to go fast track?? Although it has higher costs,if I lost?? and arnt the new strategy for asking them for an early disclosure more for the small claim track -

2, F Directions - do I use the new stategy here??

3,H Other info - Do I send a revised scedual of charges here, as I got the £750. after I had filed, or would it be simpler to leave the scedual as it is and just put in here that I have now recieved £750, and had informed the court of it and the date of the letter I sent them. It would p[robably be simpler to do it that way?

4, guido sugested that I could represent my husband in court, do you think that would be wise? as I have been doing all the work on this claim,where would I put this info, am I a witness? if so how come. and would me being there mean he was not now an "individual litagent ".

 

Please help!!....So many questions, so little time!

[GaryH]

Heres the PDF version which you can use if you prefer - http://www.hmcourts-service.gov.uk/courtfinder/forms/n150_1001.pdf

 

You can request the small claims track if you want to - it won't do any harm, although there are no gaurentee's (sorry, rubbish spelling!) you'll get it.

 

The reasons would be that the claim is a consumer dispute, there are no points of law - only fact, and that the small claims track would put both paries on an even footing as required by the overriding objectives of the Civil Procedure Rules. This is becouse the Defendant is a huge financial institution to whom a costs risk is totally insignificant, whereas you are a litigant in person to whom a costs risk is highly significant.

 

Proposed directions, tick yes. The draft order for directions then gets attached to the AQ

 

Other info -

The Claimant proposes the attached draft order for directions, for the courts due consideration. If ordered, the Claimant believes these directions will allow the overriding objective's to be furthered in that they will fully identify the most fundemental issues in dispute (as detailed below), and allow them to be assessed so that this claim may proceed justly and expediently.

 

- The crux upon which this claim rests is the true cost incurred by the Defendent as a result of the contractual breach from which its charges arise. If the Defendent cannot substantiate the cost of each charge as proportionate to its loss incurred, it has charged contractual penalties contrary to the UTCCR 1999 and common law principles established since the early 1900's.

 

- In the event that the Defendents charges were accepted as being a fee for a service (which is denied), examination of its true costs is required to determine whether the price is reasonable as required by the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

As the law relating to contractual penalties is long established, the Claimant believes the outstanding issues to be of fact. Accordingly, the Claimant respectfully requests that the claim be allocated to the small claims track, and estimates that the hearing of the claim should last no longer than one hour.

 

I think you should keep your schedule the same and attach the letter which told the court you'd been payed £750.

 

Add on to section G -

The Claimant hereby gives notice that he wishes to be represented by his wife/partner, Mrs/Miss Darling1, at the forthcoming hearing

Don't worry, you/your husband are still classes as a litigant in person.

 

Sorted?

[darling1]

THanks GaryH - sorry more questions!

Section G does not have a space for me to say that my husband wishes to be representedby me. (& what good would I be!......ahhhhhhhhhh) Should I put that in the any other info bit, or in the witnesses bit? or where!

 

One thing, do I only send this to the court, or do I do 3 copies. Do I send it to [problem] or Andover. - the bit right at the top that says have you sent a copy of this completed form to the other party(ies)yes or no ?

 

In the witnesses bit - I have to put my husbands name - done that! but what do I put in the Witness to which facts??

[darling1]

Bump

[darling1]

Sorry to keep bumping! I am trying something out!

[GaryH]

THanks GaryH - sorry more questions!

Section G does not have a space for me to say that my husband wishes to be representedby me. (& what good would I be!......ahhhhhhhhhh) Should I put that in the any other info bit, or in the witnesses bit? or where!

Other info

One thing, do I only send this to the court, or do I do 3 copies. Do I send it to [problem] or Andover. - the bit right at the top that says have you sent a copy of this completed form to the other party(ies)yes or no ?

Send a copy to Andover as well.

In the witnesses bit - I have to put my husbands name - done that! but what do I put in the Witness to which facts??

"All facts and matters relevant to this claim"

 

Sorted now?

[darling1]

Hi GaryH...ref "sorted now?"............not quite!!!

 

where do I put that I will be representing my Husband??

 

and what do I put in section D do I put the £11635.70 Original amount minus the £750.00 = £10885.70? and then do I add the £100 here that I have to pay for the AQ?

[GaryH]

Add the bit about representing your husband in 'other info'. If there is not enough room, continue on a seperate sheet.

 

Put the original amount, but attach the letter you sent to the court which says they've paid £750.

 

No, don't include the AQ fee in the total.

[Pen]

Oh well Sue, i am glad you are getting plenty of support, Mine is just to complicated, and I don;t like putting anyone in a awkward position. If you don't mind sue i will follow the advice you have been givin in relation to your claim but ommite hubby/witnes bit. as I will have to fill in the AQ soon I should get it within the next week I have statred collating the court bundel, how about you, there is some good infor in the template libary you should check out if you already hav'nt do so , wow do we make three copies of all this.?

Pen

[darling1]

Hi GaryH

 

I have done it!! I have managed to complete the AQ - I usd the PDF that you kindly linked to me, I was in such a muddle. did it on the original form, forung my writing too scruffy and had to add bits a paper, so used the pdf one. I am so pleased with myself, think I have remembered everything you have told me..Thank you so much for being so patient with me.

I actually feel proud that I have completed it!!!!! Bring on the court case!! (NOT REALLY:p ) Darling1

[darling1]

Bump

[Pen]

Hi Sue, good on you, well done, I'm still waiting to see if they are going to put in a defense, not long now, then I will be copying the AQ and going over all your posts. I have started the court bungle in readiness wow!!! how big is that. I down loaded all the court bungle info in the template section with all the case law etc 40 pagers in total I think, plus I have had to add all the statements, letters sent and received it really is as they say a bungle then I think we need to photo copy it all 3 copies not sure though whether I just need the statements which show chargers being deducted any idea. a bit ahead of myself ain't when I haven't even filled in AQs yet, but just worried in case my printer or computer packs in. Don't know about you but I have checked the court documents 3 times and all my spreadsheets making sure all the fugues match up, scared of checking it in case there was an error so far thank goodness all OK

Great Job Sue

Pen

[darling1]

Michael Browne has just advised someone on their thread that they should send a schedual of charges with the AQ. I took my AQ to the court last week - but didn't give another SOC with the AQ HELP - have I c*ck£d up?? The AQ didn't have to be in before the 16th If I need to can I add it before that date??

I thought that it was not neccessary yet!! Oh dear!!! HELP -

[GuidoT]

This is only necessary if you have not previously forwarded it, I presume you have forwarded the charge schedule already.

 

Micheal Browne was possibly advising someone that has used MCOL, where you cannot include the charge schedule as part of the particulars.

[darling1]

Ahhhhhhhh thanks GiodoT, you are right (again!) this was a MCOL and I had already sent a scedual with my N1..Thanks for that..silly me:lol:

[MilkTrayMan]

Hello darling1!

I'm EXTREMELY surprised that no-one has mentioned claiming Daily Compounded Contractural Interest instead of s69 Statutory Interest @ 8%.

...Or have I completely missed something here???

(Am aware it was asked to U in #99 of the following thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/41729-pen-lloyds-tsb-5.html?highlight=contractual+interest

...but not actually in THIS thread!!!)

The difference can often Double/Treble the total amount of unlawful Charges money that U can Re-claim, dependant on how far back the Charges were Debited from your account!

Have U yourself not read other's threads???

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html?highlight=contractual+interest

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/20752-kazzaw-lloyds-asset-card.html?highlight=contractual+interest

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/51736-excel-contractual-interest-spreadsheet.html?highlight=contractual+interest

 

Try downloading and entering your personal data into Mindzai's very user-friendly spreadsheet V1.9.

If U find that the Total Figure has SUBSTANTIALLY increased, I personally would advise U to HALT your Claim asap. and Start again from the Preliminary Letter stage.

...But this time including Contractual Interest!!!

Have a complete read through this other thread and the links contained therein.

In particular read and re-read #18 + #19 until it hurts!

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/54212-do-i-have-accept.html

It would be a shame for U to miss out on a few extra grand of YOUR MONEY, just cos U were too impatient enough to research thoroughly, now wouldn't it??!...lol...

Hope the above has helped?!

[darling1]

Thank you MTM, I have been aware of the contractual interest situation all along - but in this case I am not prepapers to put myself through any other hoops. I know it is my money and I have the right etc! But this is dragging out forever as it it, And as it such a large amount I am going to probably have to go through fast track ( i have obviously requested small claims though) So I am am not prepeare to have the TSB make it any more difficult than it needs to be, or to have any argument against me - But thanks for your (forthright!) comments, and thanks for caring . If I was less desparate and more brave I would go through with it!!

[darling1]

Just opened my post and there is a court letter that says

 

 

District Judge ****** has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires submitted in this claim and has decided that a hearing is necessary before a final decision about allocation can be made.

 

Reasons for hearing are as follows: QUESTION ABOUT TRACK, SETTLEMENT AND SKELETON ARGUMENTS.

 

DISTICT JUDGE ****** orders you to attend at 10:30 on the 13 April 2007 at ******** county Court, (address) time estimate 20 minutes.

 

(Note if you fail to attend the hearing, the court may order you to pay costs of the other parties that do attend. Failure to pay those costs within the time stated may lead to your statement of case being struck out)

 

What does this mean, is this the pelim court hearing or a pre prelim hearing?? The track bit is about £11000 being claimed in the samll claim track as advised by this thread - to see if it can go through that way...HELP PLEASE...what would our legal argument be? and will I be able to rep. my husband as requested in any other info on the AQ.

[MilkTrayMan]

???...With any Claim +£5k, the odds are, it will be allocated to the FAST TRACK.

If U are going to get shot down in flames...it may as well be for what U are actually entitled to!

I can only refer U to the advice that I gave U in #4 of your Nationwide thread...http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/60902-nationwide-here-i-come.html#post549432

 

Here's a start for U to begin YOUR research for YOUR Claim...

Small claims track

Methinks LloydsTSB will INSIST on U having to go via the FAST TRACK, just to give U another hoop!

 

 

 

Best of Luck!

[GaryH]

Hello darling1!

 

I'm EXTREMELY surprised that no-one has mentioned claiming Daily Compounded Contractural Interest instead of s69 Statutory Interest @ 8%.

...Or have I completely missed something here???

(Am aware it was asked to U in #99 of the following thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/41729-pen-lloyds-tsb-5.html?highlight=contractual+interest

...but not actually in THIS thread!!!)

 

The difference can often Double/Treble the total amount of unlawful Charges money that U can Re-claim, dependant on how far back the Charges were Debited from your account!

 

Have U yourself not read other's threads???

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/26172-mindzai-lucid-lloyds-tsb.html?highlight=contractual+interest

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/20752-kazzaw-lloyds-asset-card.html?highlight=contractual+interest

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/51736-excel-contractual-interest-spreadsheet.html?highlight=contractual+interest

 

Try downloading and entering your personal data into Mindzai's very user-friendly spreadsheet V1.9.

 

If U find that the Total Figure has SUBSTANTIALLY increased, I personally would advise U to HALT your Claim asap. and Start again from the Preliminary Letter stage.

...But this time including Contractual Interest!!!

 

Have a complete read through this other thread and the links contained therein.

In particular read and re-read #18 + #19 until it hurts!

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/54212-do-i-have-accept.html

 

It would be a shame for U to miss out on a few extra grand of YOUR MONEY, just cos U were too impatient enough to research thoroughly, now wouldn't it??!...lol...

 

 

 

Hope the above has helped?!

 

People are getting far to carried away with contractual interest and if your going to claim it you need to know your stuff and be prepared and willing to go to court.

 

Contrary to popular belief, there is no sound or substantiated legal basis for claiming interest at your accounts contractual rate. Its potentially very risky. If your not 100% confidant of the issues, you should stick with the statutory rate.

 

Besides, you can't just withdraw a claim then start a new one - you'd need to make an amendment.

[GaryH]

Just opened my post and there is a court letter that says

 

 

District Judge ****** has considered the statements of case and allocation questionnaires submitted in this claim and has decided that a hearing is necessary before a final decision about allocation can be made.

 

Reasons for hearing are as follows: QUESTION ABOUT TRACK, SETTLEMENT AND SKELETON ARGUMENTS.

 

DISTICT JUDGE ****** orders you to attend at 10:30 on the 13 April 2007 at ******** county Court, (address) time estimate 20 minutes.

 

(Note if you fail to attend the hearing, the court may order you to pay costs of the other parties that do attend. Failure to pay those costs within the time stated may lead to your statement of case being struck out)

 

 

What does this mean, is this the pelim court hearing or a pre prelim hearing?? The track bit is about £11000 being claimed in the samll claim track as advised by this thread - to see if it can go through that way...HELP PLEASE...what would our legal argument be? and will I be able to rep. my husband as requested in any other info on the AQ.

 

Its an allocation hearing.

 

I'd be surprised if Lloyds did'nt settle beforehand, but even if not then its nothing to panic about. You'll need to take with you the draft order and the statement of evidance (that can act as your skeleton arguement). Also, I think I'd be tempted to take a copy of the Lincoln order and a list of the Lloyds settled cases to show the judge.

 

Yes, you'll be able to speak for your husband, but he'll have to be present too.

 

If you like I can help you with your preparation a bit nearer the time.

[MilkTrayMan]

Hello GaryH!

People are getting far to carried away with contractual interest...

People are WINNING Claims involving Contractual Interest!!!

 

 

 

...and if your going to claim it you need to know your stuff...

I TOTALLY agree...Hence the comments made by me (#4) in reply to OP's request for info about Contractual Interest (#3) in the following thread:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/nationwide/60902-nationwide-here-i-come.html

"...anyone know what the situation is with Nationwide and the contractual interest? That would bump the total up a bit!!"

 

 

 

...and be prepared and willing to go to court.

ALL Claimants should be prepared and willing to go to Court, whatever type of interest they are Claiming...if at all!

 

 

 

...there is no...substantiated legal basis for claiming interest at your accounts contractual rate.

This subject is referred to by me (#19) in the following thread: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general/54212-do-i-have-accept.html

...which was presented to the OP, along with LloydTSB examples of WINNING Claims...There are many more examples involving other financial institutions!!!

 

 

 

...If your not 100% confidant of the issues, you should stick with the statutory rate...

I TOTALLY agree...That's why, with possibly quite alot of 'extra' money to be had, it was suggested to the OP that it may be worthwhile for the OP to do the research needed.

 

 

 

...Besides, you can't just withdraw a claim then start a new one - you'd need to make an amendment.

???I believe my terminology was..."...HALT your Claim asap..."?!

(#19) of the above later thread link contains therein a further link to a post by jonni2bad (#12), in which it is stated...

"...we will have to make an amendment - or withdraw and start again"!!!

FWIW...I too, am fully conversant with the Civil Procedure Rules (1998) 17.1 + 27.14(2)(d)...

 

 

The above is all conjecture now though, cos the OP has already decided which route they wish to go down...(#16)

 

 

 

Best of Luck!

[lucid]

Hello GaryH!

People are WINNING Claims involving Contractual Interest!!!

 

.........

 

ALL Claimants should be prepared and willing to go to Court, whatever type of interest they are Claiming...if at all!

 

Hi MilkTrayMan,

 

I think the reason GaryH was pointing it out was because the claim in question could be doubled by adding contractual interest and would result in a very large claim. Don't forget - and I could be wrong - but I haven't seen any large payouts with contractual interest yet, definitely not with Lloyds. Something that did happen with a Lloyds claimant the other day was they had their £5000 claim of charges credited to their bank without notice but not their £5000 in contractual interest. This makes things a lot more difficult because it presents an issue where the claimant may end up in court just over the contractual interest. This probably can be dealt with but not all Claimants are prepared to go to court - they should be but there are many assuming it will never happen and so not preparing.

 

I think by saying people are getting over the top, Gary meant that a lot of people are assuming it's an easy way to add extra money to their claim without properly researching it and understanding the basis for doing so. I appreciate you were telling the OP to properly research and get to grips with contractual interest so you were offering the right advice, but I feel that anyone who doesn't understand it shouldn't consider adding it to their claim because if they do end up in court just over the interest then they will probably lose.

 

Lucid

[GaryH]

Yes, people are winning contractual interest, in fact I've won it in 3 of my own claims - HSBC, Capitol 1 and Halifax.

 

However, the fact remains that there is no solid legal basis for the mutuality and reciprocity arguement. Or perhaps you'd care to show me some case law which proves otherwise? In fact, there is even a house of Lords precident against the awarding of compound interest on the basis of the 'unjust enrichment' arguement.

 

People are getting far to carried away with it all, and the excitment of the prospect of potentially increasing their claims by thousands of pounds needs to be mitigated by the reality of the situation. In this regard, I don't think posts such as yours above are particularly helpful, although I certainly did not intend offence. Many people on this board now seem to think contractual interest is some sort of entitlement in the same way as CCA s.69 interest is - it is not.

 

You also decline to acknowledge the fact that small claims litigation is focused around settling disputes in an expediant and cost effective manner, with emphasis placed on the duty to mitigate your loss. For this reason, I beleive your arguement in post 19 of the other thread is flawed. In that situation (although I haven't read the entire thread), the claimant would have received the full amount in charges + statutory 8% interest. The claimant has therefore received 100% of the charges imposed as a result of its breach of contract, + the interest set down by the county courts act which is intended to offer you adequate 'compensation' for your money being in someone elses wrongful possesion for x amount of time.

 

To then refuse that offer and demand contractual interest at that late stage, and then to proceed to court for it, would put the claimant at significant risk of costs being awarded against it should the judge dismiss the mutuality arguement upon which the contractual interest claim is based.

 

In a nutshell, if the banks pay it then great, everybody's happy. If they do as Halifax are doing though, and refund the charges + 8% then defend the contractual interest part, you should think very carefully about proceeding to court solely for the interest.