Fraud, will Paypal react in time?????

[metalrat]

I recently bidded on an item on Ebay and won, as usual I paid for the item through Paypal as soon as I was happy the seller had my correct address and was sending it by an appropriate method, I didn't pay via credit card.

 

Unfortunately all I received was an empty chocolate carton inside a "jiffy" bag containing a print out of what I bidded on and paid for inside it (a camera). Incidently the used "jiffy" bag was covering an address in Lagos, Nigeria. The Police may find this interesting, I have not contacted them as yet.

I have however contacted paypal who have asked me to contact them again tomorrow when 7 days have passed and to open a dispute.

They did say the seller still has an active account and that I would get my money refunded if the money is still there tomorrow!!!!!

I believe it takes 7-10 days before he can withdraw the money from his bank account once transferred from paypal, can anybody confirm this?

 

I have also contacted the FBI fraud dept because as I understand it Paypal is an American company, not sure of how effective this will be but hopefully it will make Paypal react with more urgency, I'll let you know what happens.

 

Any suggestions or encouragement gladly accepted, I am still hopeful of getting my money back at this stage if it is still in the sellers account.

[anon1]

As soon as I saw the address of Lagos, Nigeria, the word fraud jumped to mind. It would be interesting to hear what the FBI say about it though.

[metalrat]

The seller was based in the UK like I am, had an English sounding name, (probably made up) and had lots of positive feedback so I had no cause to think he was about to deceive me.

The Nigerian address was under the label he posted to me, I can see it when held to the light.

The handwriting is very poor also with badly formed characters, read into that what you like (no pun intended) and he addressed the label United Kingdom not England which I found strange.

[itsamomentintime]

a word of warning - paypal only cares about one thing; paypal

[metalrat]

I have today opened a dispute with paypal following their instructions.

It allows me to ask the seller one more time for a refund, if he refuses then I think paypal sort it out.

I can see from the service that it appears the monies in question have been frozen, he receives a message telling him of this until the dispute is over.

It does seem I will have to escalate to a claim.

I did receive an email from him this morning, he says I got what I bidded on "a picture of a camera"

To me it is a case of misleading advertising in order to deceive. I don't know what the correct legal term would be.

He advertised in the digital camera section and answered my questions as though he was selling a camera and who would believe that I would knowingly pay £330.00 for a sheet of A4 paper.

Should I contact the police?

I hear they have an internet fraud dept.

I'll keep updating as it pans out.

Stu

[Dani]

I bidded on "a picture of a camera"

 

Is that what he put in the email!!????? The cocky little s(*d!!

[anon1]

Do you still have the copy of the original advert because I know ebay will even if it has been won. You will need the item id and maybe worth posting on here the description that the person gave on their advert. Unless the seller said it was a picture of the camera, he has misinformed you and as you said why bid for a picture of a camera for £330

[blacksheep1979]

there was a ps3 PICTURE that sold on ebay for >£700. You have to be careful when reading the descriptions as there are loads of [causing problems] gits out there and if the advert did say it was for a picture then ebay/paypal may uphold his side of things.

 

and as Abagnale just said - post a link to the advert.

[metalrat]

The item/auction number is 330054242450

I emailed the seller these questions before bidding

What is the condition of the camera? He replied good.

Is there anything I need to know about the camera that you didn't list ie has it been dropped etc? He replied No

I didn't ask what is the condition of the picture

The picture he sent was of the wrong camera anyway so if he wants to play silly buggers then I can say wrong item sent, can I have my refund.

Really though if Paypal rule in his favour for this obvious [problem] they are setting a very dangerous precident and deserve to go out of business.

[metalrat]

I think this is the link

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330054242450&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.co.uk%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Ffrom%3DR40%26satitle%3D330054242450%26fvi%3D1

[blacksheep1979]

its a bit harsh mate but nowhere does it say he's selling a camera only title: nikon d70s + 18-70mm f/3.5-4.5 dx lens picture and in the main text amazing picture quality.

 

He hasn't really lied only totally mislead you - the structure and lack of content should have served as a bit of a warning ie no comment on how old/new the camera is, why they're selling it etc. I think you may be very unlucky with this.

[anon1]

I agree with blacksheep but I would say that the bids do seem to suggest that everyone was also believing it to be an actual camera. That is misleading and I would be suspicious as to whether other sellers were under the same impression. I think the fact that the seller also seemed to imply that the camera is in good condition and not query whether you realised it was a picture is odd.

[metalrat]

Yes but he did send the wrong picture anyway so I can always say wrong item sent also the item was never sent recorded.

Are you suggesting it is legal to do this sort of thing?

Why was it advertised in the digital section in the first instance if it was not an attempt at fraud?

If this is accepted as bonafide practice then every [problem] artist in the world will be doing it.

I don't see how this can be accepted as selling within the guidelines of ebay.

Charging £10.00 postage too? he put on 2 second class stamps and left me with a payment charge of £1.38 to pay.

This piece of XXXX needs treating with the contempt he shows to others.

His feedback from me will be colourful

[blacksheep1979]

did nothing about the listing worry you or ring alarm bells - whilst ebay quotes that its a cheap place to get stuff, its not usually that cheap and if you're buying a camera on there that usually goes for £100+ more than you're paying then its usually because other bidders are wary.

 

I think your best bet is to play down the fact that he sent you the 'wrong item' ie wrong picture - also paypal usually require proof of postage to acknowledge that someone has something.

[metalrat]

Usually the camera would come with a memory card and charger but as these were omitted I thought it would add an extra £40.00 or so to the price.

I don't understand what you mean about playing down, what harm could it do to my case?

[blacksheep1979]

sorry meant go down the route of

 

or

 

play the fact that

[friendgeorge]

I had the simular problem a few weeks ago, but it was me selling a mobile, stupid now but i sent the phone to Nigeria?????? i know don't say it now thinking that this B*****d had payed via paypal, bt you guessed it all the emails i was getting from ebay and paypal were fradulant ones, and i swear yo could never tell the difference, i rang paypal straight away and the woman who i may add was in an indian call centre just laughted at me and called me STUPID!!!! yes that's right she called me stupid, well i had her for that anyway cos she gave me her name..... anyway ebay asked for all the emails i had rec'd from this guy and within hors rang me and told me that yes they we not from ebay at all..... anyway the worse thing about it all is that i am getting terrible emails from people i do not know, and i have found out that they are coming from Nigeria, so i have emailed the Nigeria police but had nothing back from them, but i have been told that the police are as bad as the criminals in Nigeria

[Gruffle Gaw]

I have been a victim of fraud via Paypal, though the circumstances were different. Paypal's response to these things is slightly better than useless in my experience. I'd recommend talking to your local newspaper about the situation - I work as a journalist and it's amazing how many businesses will suddenly resolve long-running grievances to the customer's satisfaction when we phone them up to ask for a comment. I'd also call the police, though if your case is anything like mine I suspect they won't be interested.

 

Another possibility, if the funds came from your bank rather than a balance you accumulated from selling stuff, is to go to the bank immediately and ask them to cancel the transaction as you feel you have been a victim of fraud. I did this on the day the funds came out of my account (which was five days after the transaction was done on Paypal), and they were able to reverse it. You need to act quickly though - and it may already be too late.

 

Look on the bright side - at least you didn't pay by cheque.

[metalrat]

I have opened a dispute with PP, I notice his account is now showing minus the amount I paid.

I think PP want him and I to resolve it through talking however he will not talk to me other than to say get on MSN.

PP are waiting for his reply, if he chooses to continually ignore them I understand they will rule in my favour.

I noticed from his sold items that he has put a different address to carry out this fraud than his usual one.

He has left me negative feedback accusing me of threatening him, Ebay will have all copies of correspondance and none of them threaten him in any capacity.

I have contacted the police, they ask that I try resolve through pp first

[blitz]

If paypal don't seem to be able to resolve the issue, also talk to your bank/credit card you paid off (if you paid via these through paypal), and see what they can offer.

[Gruffle Gaw]

He has left me negative feedback accusing me of threatening him, Ebay will have all copies of correspondance and none of them threaten him in any capacity.

I have contacted the police, they ask that I try resolve through pp first

 

eBay won't remove feedback unless you get a court to rule in your favour, successfully arguing that he defamed you.

 

The police won't bother to investigate because it would take a lot of time given that he's overseas and it's not a crime they can easily resolve.

 

Sorry, mate. I think reversing the payment is your best bet. How long ago was it made?

[metalrat]

Payment made on 1st December

I then had to wait seven days before I could dispute it

Then when he refused a refund I could escalate it which I have done

PP are still waiting for him to respond

It shows his account as minus the amount I paid however it is not clear if the money is there

If he has withdrawn it then I am screwed I guess

My argument is he knowingly misled me, when I asked him questions I specifically asked about " the camera" his replies never referred to a "picture" but continued in the same vein as my queries.

I asked "Has the camera ever been dropped?" he answered "no", my question was not "has the picture been dropped"

If I was buying a car and asked the seller if it was seaworthy he would probably question me if I knew I was buying a car not a boat.

The fact he started his sale off at a high price also added to the deception.

[Gruffle Gaw]

It's too late to get the bank to reverse it, then.

 

Convincing Paypal to refund your money is your only hope. I sympathise with you deeply but quite honestly I think there's little chance of you getting your money back.

[metalrat]

He sent me the empty box by standard mail so I can always claim not received item.

This is stupid trying to find out ways to trip him up, it is obvious to the most casual observer that foul play has taken place.

I hope pp see it the same way, if they don't then the only way to get my money back would be to pull the same [problem] on some other unfortunate.

What does that tell you about pp if they allow that to happen?

enough said

[blacksheep1979]

paypal aren't there to valuate items for you - if they had to value a tiffany lampshade that someone claimed was worth £5k but when the buyer got it they thought it was only worth £3k because of some missing part of the description then Paypal aren't going to value that. Its a case of at what point do they say that isn't worth £xxx when there is a £100 difference? When there is a 10% difference and who set the values?

 

It would be opening up a whole can of worms for them to offer that kind of service. Unfortunately the listing did state xxx camera PICTURE. So the listing is accurate and as such paypal won't refund. I wouldn't lie and say you didn't receive it as if you have contacted them saying that its not the item you thought it was/it was a picture etc then they may turn arround and cancel the claim due to you not being honest (I know that sucks). Best bet is to play the wrong picture card, maybe contact the police if you can get the sellers details and or small claims action.