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    • hey your doing fine, stop sweating, it's really no big deal, you need to understand you are what is classed as 'a litigant in person' - meaning joe public against what can be seen as a somewhat daunting judicial system, that is too your advantage.   IMHO thats just a reprint of your defence, it might be better to structure around something like this, whos basis is around the WS in the thread i pointed too.         WITNESS STATEMENT OF DEFENDANT XXXXXXXXXXXX CLAIM NO. XXXXXXXX                                                                                                                                   Defendant: XXXXXXX                                                                                                                               Date XX/XXX2019 IN THE COUNTY COURT AT                                                                               CLAIM NO:XXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     BETWEEN     XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX      CLAIMANT     AND XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX     DEFENDANT    1. It is my understanding that the claimant is an Assignee, a buyer of defunct disputed or bad debts, which are bought on mass portfolios at a much reduced cost to the amount claimed ...10p to 15p in the £1 and which the original creditors have already written off as a capital loss and claimed against taxable income. Idem Capital securities issue claims to circumvent and claim the full amount of debt to maximise profit.    2. As an assignee or creditor as defined in section 189 of the CCA this applies to this new requirement on assignment of rights. This means that when an assignee purchases debts (or otherwise acquires rights under a credit agreement) it also acquires certain obligations to the borrower including the duty to comply with CCA requirements (such as the rules on statements and notices and other post-contractual information). The assignee becomes the creditor under the agreement. This ensures that essential consumer protections under the CCA cannot be circumvented by assigning the debt to a third party.   I accept I have in the past had financial dealings with {insert original creditor name]. That being a Loan Agreement . I do not recall the precise details of the agreement but do recall it was on or about the year xxxx.   After seeking advice this led me to check all paperwork I held with creditors, from this I could not find any Credit Agreement relating to the account the claimant is referring to.   I have therefore sought clarification and requested copies of the agreements from the claimant by way of a section 77 request    exhibits   (DOC 1) A CPR 31.14 request pursuant to sec 61 B of the CCA1974 was sent xx/xx/xxxx via Royal Mail signed for and shows as received xx/xx/xxxx. Request for the following :   1.a copy of the default notice served under section 87 of the consumer credit act 3. Notice of assignment 4. A statement of account   (DOC 1A) To date NO default notice been produced.    (DOC 2) A Section 77 request was sent on xx/xx/xxxx via royal mail signed for and shows as received xx/xx/xxx. The claimant to date has failed to comply to my Section 77 request.   the defendant has failed to produce a copy of the Default notice issued by the original creditor,  as far as I can recall any breach with the original creditor would have been on or around xxxx.   The claimant as an assignee would not be able to legally issue a Default Notice as the debt would have already been terminated before assignment.   (DOC 3) I sort clarity of any Default Notice by the way of a CPR 31.14 request, sent via Royal mail signed for on xx/xx/xxxx and shows as received signed for xx/xx/xxxx   The claimant has still yet to comply to my CPR 31.14 request with regard to clarity of any valid default notice issued, as yet I have never received an original or seen a copy of a valid default notice from the defendant.   Conclusion   I contest that the documents I have received do not meet the requirements and prescribed terms of a legal binding credit agreement, and that the claimant has acknowledged that they are unable to produce an agreement and are unable to enforce litigation action.     I also state NO VALID Default has been produced from the claimant.   I believe that the that the facts stated in the witness state are true   ..................   have you received the claimants witness statement yet...   the above is just musings...    
    • Hi I know you are a busy site but I have posted the last few very important messages as I will be in court in the next few weeks   as you can see time is of essence and I have had few cryptic replies of look for your self messages which I have tried to work out about new guidance on statement of truths but this is not something that I am familiar with   yes I understand this site is not here to spoon feed everyone but sometimes it feels like a cap in hand approach. I have not had any feedback as to whether my statement is going to stand or if it will be thrown away by the judge?   I wish I had the knowledge of all you guys that assist everyone in their time of need who ask for the guidance that is readily available here but unfortunately it’s not the case sorry.   If anyone could advise on my post it will be very much appreciated.   Thanks G
    • I will need to find the original two letters. It wasn’t that long ago so they can’t have gone far 🙄   but nobody remembers this pcn which makes me wonder about the date. I will check. 
    • Electricians generally do a good job and we all need them from time to time.  However, none of us would employ an electrician to change a light bulb, we'd do it ourselves.   The small claims courts is designed to be informal and to discourage the use of solicitors.   What we can't understand is why you are paying a solicitor huge sums to do things you could easily do yourself.
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Speeding fine -41 in a 30 - wrong roads on NIP?


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I received a notice of intended prosecution for doing 41 in a 30 zone. I am not disputing that I was wrong and will pay or do the course. 

 

On the nip it says that I was travelling west bound between two particular roads , when I was travelling east bound between another set of roads .

 

The police with the radar gun were hiding on the opposite side of the road in a bus stop.

Just wondered when I send this form back admitting I was the driver I should point this out to them 

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Posted (edited)

You can point it out but I wouldn't expect it to achieve anything unless the error is so gross that they decide to drop it out of embarrassment.

 

I think the general rule is that this sort of error only helps you if you are put at a disadvantage as a result of it.  But as you say:

 

1 hour ago, colin1096 said:

... I am not disputing that I was wrong and will pay or do the course. 

 

On the noip it says that I was travelling west bound between two particular roads , when I was travelling east bound between another set of roads ...

 

You seem to know exactly what has happened and have not been disadvantaged.  So I think you are stuck - but see if anybody else has any better ideas.  And it doesn't help you if they were "hiding".

 

Make sure you return your nomination in time.

 

(Just to check - if you are the Registered Keeper, was it served within 14 days?)

Edited by Manxman in exile
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  • dx100uk changed the title to Speeding fine -41 in a 30 - wrong roads on NIP?

Agree with Manxman. The NIP has to show "...the nature of the alleged offence and the time and place where it is alleged to have been committed." 

 

As Manxman points out, the basis of the NIP is to provide you with sufficient information so as you are not disadvantaged. If you want to defend the matter on the basis that the NIP did not meet the requirements (of S1 of the Road Traffic Offenders' Act) you will have to have the matter heard in court. You will be required to give evidence and so be liable to cross examination. You will be questioned on the disadvantage you suggest the error caused you. You are unlikely to convince the court that the NIP was deficient enough to provide a defence (especially as you know exactly where the offence occurred) and failure will cost you the thick end of £1,000.

 

You should be offered a course for that speed provided you have not done one for an offence which occurred in the three years prior to this one.

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Posted (edited)

Exactly the same thing happened to me a few years ago.  I was summoned for speeding on the A127 when it should have been the A12.

 

I went into court and the charge was read.  The police officer was already in the witness box and he told the CPS solicitor there was a problem and he told the court.  The clerk then re-read the offence with the correct roads.  I simply said "with respect, that isn't the charge I was summoned here to face."  The clerk looked at the bench who looked at each other.  The CPS solicitor then stood and said "the summons is faulty and is withdrawn."

 

And that was it.

Edited by SpeedyCBR1100
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Thanks,  I have put a letter with a copy of the notice of prosecution explaining that I was not travelling on that road. I wouldn't want to go to court over a technical error I'm case I lost. Will just do the course. Thanks everyone for your advice.

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Wait and see what they offer you then.  As I said above, if they have made a mistake it is possible that they might decide not to proceed out of embarrassment, even if the error is not such as to disadvantage you.  They did in SpeedyCBR1100's case.  You might get lucky too.

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The difference between your case and Speedy's is that his involved an error on the summons. Yours is on the NIP. The two are judged at different levels, but nonetheless I am surprised that the court did not permit an amendment to the summons. As an aside, minor motoring offences are not commenced by way of summons now. They begin with a "Single Justice Procedure Notice" (sent to the defendant) together with a "Written Charge" (sent to the court).

 

There is a different strategy you could consider. Before you return the Section 172 notice providing the driver's details, you could ask for "any photographs that will help identify the driver." They don't have to provide them but usually will. They don't usually help identify the driver (especially those taken from the rear) but it is a way of avoiding asking for "evidence" to which you are not entitled at this stage. When you have them you can confirm the location and if the NIP and S172 request state it incorrectly you could reply saying that your vehicle was not in the location mentioned at the relevant time.

 

This is a risky business. Unless the police drop the matter out of "embarrassment" you will face a charge of "Failing to Provide Driver's Details" - an offence which carries six points. Whether you are convicted of that depends very much on all the circumstances and it's impossible to give a view here. But it might be worth a try. It is not your job to second guess what the police really mean when they ask who was driving your car at 12 noon in the High Street. You could give it some thought.

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You're absolutely correct.  I was stopped by an officer who actually looked like a pig.  He tried to give me a verbal NIP but couldn't' quite remember it so helped him out.  (I am an ex Police Officer.)  There was therefore no need for a written follow up.

 

I did actually guess that he would screw something else up and so it proved.

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Thanks for your advice . I returned the notice of prosecution form saying I was the driver and put a letter in saying it was the wrong road. Today I received another NIP with different reference number on it but this time with the correct road and the same time and date and speed as the first one . I am a bit confused do I send this back aswell and hope they don't fine me twice . 

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What date of alleged offence is on the second NIP, and

a) when is it dated,

b) when is it postmarked.

(I note it was received 5/8/21)

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First letter offence 11.25am 27th July received 29th July sent 28th juky

 

Second letter offence 11.25am 27th July dated 03/08/21 received today

 

Roads have changed on the 2 letters

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  • 1 month later...

Here in Scotland a few years ago the local council misnamed a road. They discovered the error after a year or so. The police had to contact every person caught speeding on that road and cancel any prosecution. Whether they did or not is another matter. 

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