Hermes managed to lose my rowing machine! – ***WON***

[Sad Hippo]

Hi everyone,

I need to apologise in advance; English is not my first language; I will try to make myself as clear as possible.

 

I bought a rowing machine (300GBP) on eBay (private seller); I arranged delivery by myself through P2G and use Hermes as the courier.

Sadly, I didn't buy the insurance P2G offers.

 

Information about the parcel: 

- Rowing machine (300GBP) 

- 175 cm X 80 cm X 26cm 

- 26 KG

 

Timeline of the incident

1) It was collected on 26 June by HERMES

2) After numerous calls and emails - it is lost and confirmed by HERMES on 12 July.

The parcel is lost at HERMES' depot  (I don't know how's that possible)

3) Hermes refuse to refund me and suggest that I should go to P2G instead.

4) Hermes says this parcel is too big for them, and they won't be able to deliver. And they blame P2G for placing this order.

 

I am confused here, and may I ask the following questions?

1) Should I claim the refund from P2G or HERMES?

2) I have opened a case with P2G on 14 July, and they need 14 working days to do the investigation
- if I want to send them Letter before the count claim - should I wait after 14 days, or don't I need to?

3) Does the size of the parcel matter? 

 

Thank you very much for everyone who is interested in this case.

[BankFodder]

What a laugh to lose an entire rowing machine. It beggars belief and frankly it might be worth looking around to find the fittest couriers currently working for Hermes and you may well find your man.

Anyway, you can choose who you want to claim from – either P2G or Hermes. We'll explore that little bit down the road.

I understand that the declared value was £300 and you didn't take out insurance. Was it correctly declared in terms of the identity of the item and also the weight and dimensions et cetera?

 

Please read up in the sticky topic to this forum about insurance and why it would be unenforceable and why it is an unfair term and why it's totally relevant that you didn't take it out anyway. Frankly, on the basis of the weight and dimensions I can imagine that Hermes would have knocked you back anyway even had you had the insurance – but the insurance is a scam.

Please spend time – and I mean quite a substantial amount of time – reading up the Hermes stories on this forum. When you go against P2G or against Hermes, it's broadly the same.

Have you got it in writing from Hermes that they are blaming P2G?

 

You will need to start by putting in a formal complaint to both of them. Don't set a deadline, but tell them that you want your money back plus the delivery fee. If you don't hear from them then after a reasonable time say 10 days to 14 days, we will then go on to the next step. If they knock you back then we will also go onto the next step – which will be a letter of claim.

Start doing your reading

[Sad Hippo]

Thank you for your quick reply

Sometimes, I find this incident so funny that I could not get angry about it. 

I have read some of the stories, but not all. I will go through those with more replies. 

Also, I will read around the sticky topics as suggested.

 

Anyway, yes, I have correctly put down the size and weight of the item when placing order through P2G on their order form as follow

===========================================

We’re pleased to confirm that we've received your shipment details from XXXX .

Contents	Weight	Dimensions
Rower	26kg	175cm x 80cm x 26cm

===========================================

 

 

===========================================

Here is the email from Hermes and blaming it on P2G 

===========================================

 

Thank you for contacting the Hermes Support Team and sorry for the delayed response.

 

I also sincerely apologise for the difficulties you are experiencing with the delivery of your parcel.

 

This parcel was booked through Parcels2Go therefore the person who booked the parcel has a contract with them, not us.

 

Parcels2Go then have an agreement with us. Our maximum parcel weight is 15kg, this is stated in our terms and conditions and must be accepted before the booking is complete.

 

Please contact Parcels2Go as they are the account holder they will be able to assist you further. I apologise that we cannot assist you further.

 

Kind regards,

Shauni  ext2733

Customer Escalations Team

[BankFodder]

Thanks. Probably sue Hermes.

Make the formal complaint against both of them. Do the reading. Let us know what happens or if nothing has been heard in about 10 days

[Sad Hippo]

I have read several complaint and post related to Small claim, local count, how nonsense Herme's defence is and what should I do during mediation. 

 

Now I understand both P2G and Hermes are accountable for my lost - 

"What Hermes don't tell you is that they bear equal contractual responsibility because there is an act of Parliament called the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 which provides that an official third parties enjoy all the rights of a direct contracting partner."

 

Meanwhile, I got a new email from them and this is what they say,

 

Hi Hippo,

 

Thank you for getting in touch with us regarding parcel XXXXXXX.

 

 

As we can see from the system the parcel was last scanned on 03/07/2021 at 05:16.

As there has been no update we will have to class the parcel as lost due to the time-scale.

As you are the sender and the recipient parcel2go will be in contact with you regarding the claim.

 

We are sorry for the inconvenience caused. We will politely not enter into any further correspondence in regards to this matter.

 

If you need anything in the future, please contact your Hermes Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.

 

Kind regards,

 

 

Muns 2658

Hermes Customer Services

 

[Sad Hippo]

Now they keep pushing me to P2G for the claim. 

How should I reply them?

[BankFodder]

Okay if they are refusing to communicate further and you are confident about the processes having done the reading here then it's time to issue a letter of claim..

 

You want to know how to reply to Hermes? With a letter of claim.

Draft a letter of claim and post it here.

Also, make sure you read up on the steps involved taking a small claim in the County Court. It's very easy but it's worth knowing the steps in advance so that you are confident.

Let's see your letter of claim.

 

[Sad Hippo]

Dear Hermes Parcelnet Limited,

 

As it has not been possible to resolve this matter amicably, and it is apparent that court action may be necessary.

I write in compliance with the Practice Direction on Pre-Action Conduct.
On the 26th JUNE 2021, my parcel was collected by myHermes using Parcel2go as the intermediary company through whom the service was booked. 

On 3rd JULY 2021, my rowing machine was lost in your depot and it was confirmed as lost again on 22 JULY.

 

I am once again requesting a full refund of the item price of £300 + £ 22.5 delivery fee (total: £322.5).

If I do not receive a satisfactory response from you within 10 days of the date of this letter, I intend to issue proceedings against you in the county court without further notice.
 
Yours sincerely
 

[BankFodder]

Fine. Send it. Except that you have to give them  14 days, not 10.

Register with the County Court money claim online web service. Start preparing your claim and post up your suggested particulars of claim here so we can check it.

 

[Sad Hippo]

This is the particulars of claim: 

 

I have posted my rowing machine (Indoor rower 
machine E-216 £300.00 and delivery fee 
£22.45) thorough Hermes from Basingstoke to 
Eastbourne. 

 

My machine has not been delivered and 
subsequently has been found as being lost in 
Hermes depot which has been confirmed on both 
3 and 22 July.

 

Yet defendant refuses to refund the full 
value of the item and the delivery fee.

The claimant seeks £300 being the value of 
the item, £22.45 delivery cost, legal fees 
and any interest owed.

[BankFodder]

Quote

The claimant is suing as a beneficial third party under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act. The claimant the defendant's courier service to deliver a rowing machine, value – £XXXX to a UK address. Reference number xxxxxxxxx. The defendant breached the contract by losing the item, prior to delivery, and refuses to reimburse the claimant to the full value of item. The defendant's requirement that a customer is responsible for insuring themselves against the defendants own negligence or the criminality of its employees are unfair within the meaning of the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and therefore unenforceable. The claimant seeks £249.99 plus delivery fee £6.88, plus interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts act 1984.

 

 

Do the reading

[Sad Hippo]

My bad, I didn't know I should include those two acts in as well. Thank you for reading and amend it for me

 

 

Now I will wait for 14 days and see how they reply.

I will this post updated when I have any news from them.

[BankFodder]

Have you registered with the County Court website? You should start preparing your claim so that on day 15 you are ready to click it off – no hesitation.

Don't for one moment imagine that you won't have to do this.

[Sad Hippo]

32 minutes ago, BankFodder said:

Have you registered with the County Court website? You should start preparing your claim so that on day 15 you are ready to click it off – no hesitation.

Don't for one moment imagine that you won't have to do this.

I have register with county court website and filled the form up. 

 

I believe there is an update version of the system and it is the one that I filled

 

And it will be submitted after 14 days immediately 

[dx100uk]

you mean MCOL website 

 

dx

 

[Sad Hippo]

Yes, the MCOL website

 

 

NEW EMAIL FROM HERMES - THEY TRY TO PUSH ME TO P2G AGAIN 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for getting in touch with your enquiry regarding parcel reference XXXX

 

Parcel2Go reference number: P2GXXXX

 

I’m sorry to hear that you have experienced a problem with this delivery and I can appreciate how frustrating this situation must be for you and your recipient.

 

I can see that you purchased the shipping label for this parcel via Parcel2Go. While your parcel was sent using the Hermes network, Parcel2Go are regarded as the carrier in this situation as they provided you with the shipping label. This means that any claims for parcels which have become lost, damaged or delivered late will need to go directly to them so they can discuss the appropriate next steps with you.

 

Here is a useful link which may assist you:

Parcel2Go Help Centre: https://www.parcel2go.com/help-centre

 

If you need anything in the future, please contact your Hermes Customer Service Team and we’ll be happy to help.

 

If you need anything in the further, please contact your Hermes Customer Service Team and we will be happy to help.

 

Kind regards,

 

Lindsey Harrison

Hermes Senior Claims Advisor

1 Capitol Close, Morley, Leeds, LS27 0WH

Customer Service 03308085456

[BankFodder]

Quote

Dear Lindsey

 

Ref XXXXXXXXX

Here is a useful link which may assist you:

Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1999/31/contents

 

but you knew that already didn't you.

Next contact will be through a County Court claim.

Kind regards

 

 

[Sad Hippo]

I am thinking to reply them by using beneficial third party under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Good Morning Lindsey,

 

Thank you for you reply.

 

The Contract (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 gives powers to third parties in certain circumstances to enforce terms of a contract that confer a benefit upon them, either expressly or as a matter of contractual construction.

 

Therefore, Hermes and P2G both share equal legal responsibility towards my lost parcel.

In breach of the contract you have failed to do this as you have since informed me that the parcel is lost.

 

f I don't receive reimbursement in full within 14 days of this letter then I shall sue you in the County Court and without any further notice.

Yours faithfully

 

1 minute ago, BankFodder said:

 

Opps, that's fast 

Edited July 23, 2021 by Sad Hippo

[BankFodder]

They know everything you're telling them – so I suggest that you simply use the email that I suggested without any further comment.

They are just playing a game with you. Don't react.

Also you don't need to make your 14 day threat again. If you make it again then you have moved the deadline onwards by several days. Don't you realise that you are getting sucked into their game?

[Sad Hippo]

2 hours ago, BankFodder said:

They know everything you're telling them – so I suggest that you simply use the email that I suggested without any further comment.

They are just playing a game with you. Don't react.

Also you don't need to make your 14 day threat again. If you make it again then you have moved the deadline onwards by several days. Don't you realise that you are getting sucked into their game?

Exactly and I think they are try to tired me out. And yes, I did send your version to Lindsey. 

 

Thank you BankFodder

 

Meanwhile P2G reply me and what a joke 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

We’re writing to you in response to your recent enquiry regarding the following order: P2GXXX

We have conducted a full investigation with the courier to locate your parcel, unfortunately, in this instance, the search has proved unsuccessful.

We apologise for the inconvenience this has caused and as a result, we have now progressed your enquiry to a claim.

Regarding compensation

We noticed that during the order process, you opted against taking out protection on your parcel. That unfortunately means that we cannot compensate you for the full value of the parcel contents even if your claim is valid.

Don’t worry, though — we may still issue a refund on the cost of delivery should your claim be successful.

What happens next?

To help us progress your claim as quickly as possible, you’ll need to upload supporting documents.

View your case to submit the required information.

Deadline to submit documents: 13/08/2021

 

I am replying this: 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear The Parcel2Go Claims Team

Reference number P2GXXX

 

Thank you for your message dated and thank you for your offer the refund of postage.  

However, it is totally unacceptable and I won't accept it. 

Next contact will be through a County Court claim.

 

Thanks

[Sad Hippo]

claim submitted

 

 

[Sad Hippo]

Hermes replied, and as expected, they refused all the claims but agreed to do mediation.

I have attached their response here as a PDF.

They keep pushing their responsibility to P2G as they said they are the sub-contractor. 

230MC749-claim-response.pdf

[BankFodder]

Yes – nothing unusual.

Although this is the first time I've seen them specifically referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 and they say that the Act does not apply because you, the claimant have not been specifically named as the beneficiary and also because the terms and conditions of the P2G contract do not entitle you to sue.

Of course this is all nonsense. The test is that either you are a named beneficiary or you fall within a class of person who clearly would be beneficiaries under the contract. You clearly fall into that second group.

I suppose that Chloe Higgs is just doing what she's been told.

Keep on doing the reading. Let us know when you get a mediation date.

Make sure that you have read the mediation summaries of this sub- forum. There are a few very good ones and if you are familiar with those then you will be well prepared.

[Sad Hippo]

Thank you, BankFodder.

Will do the reading around and get well prepared.

 

Will update you once I get the mediation date  

[Sad Hippo]

On 13/09/2021 at 15:48, BankFodder said:

Yes – nothing unusual.

Although this is the first time I've seen them specifically referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 and they say that the Act does not apply because you, the claimant have not been specifically named as the beneficiary and also because the terms and conditions of the P2G contract do not entitle you to sue.

Of course this is all nonsense. The test is that either you are a named beneficiary or you fall within a class of person who clearly would be beneficiaries under the contract. You clearly fall into that second group.

I suppose that Chloe Higgs is just doing what she's been told.

Keep on doing the reading. Let us know when you get a mediation date.

Make sure that you have read the mediation summaries of this sub- forum. There are a few very good ones and if you are familiar with those then you will be well prepared.

I got the date of mediation today - 20 / 10 / 2021

I will make sure to read through the mediation summaries.

I am wondering how do I argue about  "The test is that either you are a named beneficiary or you fall within a class of person who clearly would be beneficiaries under the contract." 

Of course, I know I am that second group.

But do I need to provide evidence to show that I am that group?