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LORD ROOFING AND GROUNDS WORKS LTD Refusing to Repair Poorly Laid Driveway and Using Intimidation to Enforce Payment


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They have brought a single claim for more than £10,000 so it is quite likely that it would go on to the fast track and as you have already understood, this would mean liability for a large proportion of the costs by the loser.



Please can you post up the claim form here in pdf format.

How are you doing on your inspections and reports?

 

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as long as it says our client xyz on it...you must respond within 30days.

 

as for the contracts, the claimform POC when/if one ever gets raised through northants bulk must detail all the contracts concerned in the claim.

 

just because a scary letter of claim has been raised, that does not 100% guarantee a claim will be raised by their client.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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is there a reply pack with the PAPLOC?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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My bad. For some reason rather I thought it was the claim form.

My site team colleague above is absolutely correct.

Please will you post up a copy of the letter of claim here.

Also, as I've already asked – how are you getting on with your own inspections and assessments?

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Posted (edited)

I've chased the engineer for the report and it will be with me on Monday,

 

I've created a PDF of the letter before action email I've received. The final page of the document is the additional unquantified charges (goodwill work) they are billing me for as "punishment" for not succumbing to their demands.

 

Is there anything else I can do in the meantime? As soon as I receive the engineer's report, I'm going to try to obtain three quotes to rectify all the faults highlighted.

 

To clarify, I've not received any court paperwork. Its the same "collection company" I was threatened with earlier on

Westbury collection LBA 29.7.21.pdf

Edited by Chipsticks
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Sorry, I got badly sidetracked and eventually forgot to come back here.

The so-called letter of claim which they have sent you doesn't appear to be a "letter of claim". It doesn't make it clear that there is a deadline and it is simply a rather more generalised threat.

I suggest that you hold fast and get your survey and then let's see what it says.

Also, I suggest that you keep all your correspondence with Lord Roofing and don't bother to reply to these people at all.

If you start responding to them that it validates their existence. No need to go down that road.

I see that you expected to get the report today. Has it arrived?

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Thank you for getting back to me. I assumed you were busy.

 

I've got the report and its taken some time for me to redact my personal details out of it, and then re-combine into a new PDF. It seems to have worked out okay.

 

I've also heard nothing back from Tobermore...Which is exactly as you predicted. At least it shows where their loyalty lies.

 

It says letter before action, but as you've mentioned there are no formal timescales etc. I'm assuming these are their tried and tested bully tactics to force payment.

 

I'd be grateful for your thoughts and suggestions on the next steps. I'm going to try and arrange quotations to rectify the work as soon as possible. Its just difficult to get people to attend at the moment

Lord Groundworks Report Redacted 28th July.pdf

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Not just busy – but then went on to forget. Please don't be shy about giving me a shout @BankFodder if I haven't responded at some point.

The report seems amazing – how much did that cost you?

It certainly bears out everything you say – as far as I can understand it. It seems very well expressed and even as a layperson I can get a fairly good understanding of it even on one quick reading.

I have a sense that quite frankly it's not a question of correcting the job but a question of lifting it all up and redoing it. Is that your view?

Have you had any quotations for any works to it?

Are there any circumstances under which you would accept the work in this condition – and I suppose I'm talking about reduction in price or foregoing payment altogether?

Are there parts of the work which must absolutely be redone and other parts which can be accepted if suitable terms are offered?

It certainly seems to me that there are two aspects which will need to be completely redone. I gather that some of the workers being laid on existing concrete which means that it is impermeable which I suppose means that water will not drain away.

Secondly, that some of its slopes towards the house which of course will feed water and damp into your home.

Is this the correct understanding?

 

 

It seems to me that the cost of undoing all the work and then carrying out the work again but to the original contractual specification is going to be far more than the £10,000 that they are seeking from you.

Can you remind me how much of their so-called claim is made up of the work which was intended to be a goodwill gesture?

Have you got this goodwill gesture in writing?

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Hi Bankfodder

 

Cost for the report was £355

 

You are correct that the majority of the work requires completely re-doing. Particularly the back which was not laid on the correct substrate and is not level.

 

I have not had any quotations yet. The people I have contacted so far, agreed to turn up but have not. There seems to be an excess of work for builders at the moment

 

The rear garden work I am not happy with at all, and would want it to be corrected completely. I'm not sure at this stage if I would be happy with a reduction or foregoing payment. Especially as there is the further risk of damage to my property (damp etc) and also that all warranties would be void. The front driveway has the potential to be rectified in my view, albeit with significant work required.

 

You are correct that the rear patio already had concrete laid, which was not a suitable substrate for block pavings and required removal and correct preparation

 

Before I received this report a few tradespeople attended who promised to provide quotes but then never returned or called back. I assumed they thought they were in the middle of a dispute and didn't want to waste their time providing a quotation. They were quoting off the cuff in the region of £15000

 

In the earlier contracts I posted, there is additional work which was agreed by the proprietor under the contracts as goodwill. It was added into the contract. I'm not sure why it was itemised as "goodwill" as it came under the total cost in the work. This is now being retrospectively charged for. It was also the reason they were avoiding doing the work properly- as they said it was only goodwill.

 

I cannot understand how you can have contract A for example. And in this contract you will do work 1, 2, 3 and 4 for a price of say 10,000. But you itemise work 4 as goodwill, and then retrospectively charge £2000 for work 4 because there is a dispute. My understanding is that it would all come under the 1 contract regardless

 

 

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I think that this constant reference to the goodwill element of this contract is unhelpful. It's not the principal issue and it seems just to be diverting you – and rather the same way that in your opening post you started talking about work which had been carried out satisfactorily and which we now understand is not in issue at all.

The situation here is that there are two pieces of work which were carried out and according to the assessment which you have just received, the standard work was so poor that really the whole thing needs to be taken up and redone.
Is that a correct assessment?

What was the proposed cost of the work which was done? How much have you paid towards it? How much is outstanding?

They apparently are proposing to chase you for about £10,900 that it seems to me that the issue is far larger than that.

You say that you have had a very rough estimate of about £15,000 to have the existing shoddy work taken up and replaced to proper standard.

We are going to have to do get some definite figures here and also at least one quotation – and preferably two.

Once you have had some quotes for the work then that will be the time to send a copy of your report to Lord and to ask them to comment and invite them to carry out their own inspection if they wish.

At this point in order to avoid escalating the conflict more than necessary, I don't think you should refer to the cost of the report – but certainly if they lead you into litigation as I'm sure they most certainly will, then you should include the cost of this report and any others.

It seems to me that they say that you are than £10,900 but you will be saying that they are you about £15,000. As you are aware, this takes you well over the small claims limit.
Rather than planned and actual litigation, for the moment I think we should simply play it by ear. See what their reaction is when they have received your report and a quote – although let's see a quote here first.

It may be more prudent simply to show them the report and keep the quotation for the work back until we see how they react to the report.

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Posted (edited)

I’m not constantly referencing the goodwill work. You asked me the following in the earlier post:

 

“Can you remind me how much of their so-called claim is made up of the work which was intended to be a goodwill gesture?

Have you got this goodwill gesture in writing?”

 

 

I’ve detailed the costs in previous posts. They are the following

 

Work 1 Rear Patio, total £2,650.00. Deposit Paid - £530.00

 

Work 2 Front Drive total £7,888.00. Deposit Paid - £1,577.60

 

I’m in the process of obtaining quotes. It’s a busy time for builders and tradespeople and a lot of people aren’t even turning up

 

I was going to send an email either today or tomorrow showing the report and explaining my concerns with the work. Tobermore have also still not returned the emails. Is it worth contacting them again with the report? Surely they should at least confirm to me that warranty is void without meeting British standards etc?

 

With respect Bankfodder, I really appreciate your help, but its difficult for me to predict and pre-empt exactly the format and manner in which you require information. This is all very new to me and I'm sorry if I've given too much information at times. It has been at attempt to help, rather than hinder things by being explicit and detailed

Edited by Chipsticks
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Please hold off sending the report at the moment.

I suggest very strongly that you post a draft of any communication with them up here before you send it for us to have a look and see what you are proposing to say.

I appreciate the getting the quotes is difficult – but I don't think that we need to react in a panic to them. You have an excellent report there for which you paid good money, let's hold fire and use it in the most effective way possible. And that means – not yet.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I've got some updates.

 

I've managed to only get one writted quote (Attached). This is because tradespeople have either refused to quote or didn't turn up. Or turned up and then didn't provide a quote

 

Additionally, I received a statutory demand from Westbury Collections. I initially ignored it as per the advice on here, but after doing some reading, I'm a little worried that this may be a genuine document. Are they attempting to get me declared bankrupt? I've done some research and this should only apply if a debt is not contested. Is this correct?

 

I'm quite worried now so help would be much appreciated

 

DP groundworks quote.pdf Westbury statutory demand.pdf

Edited by Chipsticks
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Please monitor this thread for a reply tomorrow. However, there can be no attempt to make you bankrupt without a judgement in court and nobody has issued any proceedings yet.

You don't need to worry about this.

 

 

Edited by BankFodder
Incorrect info
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Thank you. Thats really relieved my anxiety.

 

I was under the impression that it was the following that was "served" on me

 

WWW.CITIZENSADVICE.ORG.UK

Explains the need to act quickly, if you receive a statutory demand from someone who is trying to make you bankrupt.

 

I'll wait for your response tomorrow.

 

Thank you

Edited by Chipsticks
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Firstly I have to apologise because I told you that there was nothing to worry about in respect of the statutory demand but having flagged it up to my site team colleague, it appears that I was completely wrong.

I'm sorry for misleading you and even more importantly I can imagine that seeing the correction made by my site team colleague has worried you even more.

I'm afraid I've been away for quite a while so I'm trying to get my head back into the loop.

It looks to me as if you are going to have to go ahead and make a claim in order to move this forward and also to protect yourself.

The problem is that the quote you have takes you too much more than £10,000 which puts you into the fast track and as you know there is a risk of paying the costs of the other side if you lose the case. Also, having seen how assertive/bullish this company is, I can imagine that they will spare no expense in trying to defeat you.

At the outset you said that your arrangement with the builders was that there were four separate contracts.

It seems to me that a good tactic would be to identify one of the contracts and the failings on that contract and the cost of remedying the situation on that particular contract which I expect will come in at far less than £10,000 and then sue on that.

If this idea appeals to you then clearly we need to move things along. It's already been stalling and I realise that this seems to be caused by the problem of getting people to give you quotations for the work. 

 

If you want to go ahead on this basis then please can you let us know which one of the contracts shows the most problems and which may be easiest to prove. You need to get a quote simply to remedy that piece of work.

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Thanks for your response.

 

Its okay Bankfodder, everyone makes mistakes. The document I was served states I have 18 days to make a response. It is now the eigtheenth day today. I'm not sure if non-working days count. I've tried to search online but cannot find any information. The demand was hand delivered which is what the regulations would state. It seems to me they're abusing this process as the debt is contested, and that is clearly known by Lord Roofing.

 

The two invoices in dispute are

Work 1 Rear Patio, total £2,650.00. Deposit Paid - £530.00

Work 2 Front Drive total £7,888.00. Deposit Paid - £1,577.60

 

From what I've read, I could still contest it in court at fast track without legal representation and argue that I should not have to pay the other parties legal costs, or I could claim for my own "legal costs" i.e my time and work spent on the case.

 

I don't quite understand what my best option would be. Can I not claim for "work 1 and "work 2" as two separate court claims. These are independent contracts and independent pieces of work carried out

 

Andyorch, I'm not sure what you mean "no connection to CCJ/judgement". Is this not an abuse of the statutory agreement?

Edited by Chipsticks
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In terms of the statutory demand, I think that we need input from @Andyorch.

 

Meanwhile, we need to proceed independently with beginning your claim.

Of course you could contest a claim in the fast track and without legal representation but as I've already said you lay yourself open to paying a substantial part of the other side's costs if you lose. Of course if you win then you will also recover your own costs on a litigant person basis. However your adversaries here will without a doubt instruct solicitors and incur a considerable amount of expenses which will also put a lot of psychological pressure on you as you realise that your risk factor starts to mount up.

Claiming for the two contracts as separate claims is exactly what I'm suggesting. I think that you should do one at a time. There is a risk that if you claim for both at the same time that the defendants might make an application to have them joined as they are related to substantially the same transaction and substantially the same facts.
The thing to do is to deal with one at a time. This will make it easier to focus and also reduce your risk factor in terms of the cost of the claim and also the risk of having to bear the other side's costs if you happen to lose.

You've identified two contracts – rear patio and front drive.

Which piece of work is more seriously defective and in terms of the assessments you have obtained so far, which one is more easily provable?

You will have to have a quote in place for the remedial work to each one of them separately

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I had misunderstood what you said. Yes that soulds like a good idea to claim for each separately. I imaging they would definitely try to have them combined as one debt.

 

There are different defects, but to the same extent in Work 1 and Work 2. I feel I should claim for Work 2 first (front drive) as this is the highest value and has the greatest impact on my property as its at the front. Also in terms of strategy, I feel it would make sense to contest the work which has the greatest financial risk first.

 

I'm really struggling to get quotes for work. Is there any other option? I've contacted numerous contractors and due to high demand for their services many are not interested in quoting or when chased give a poor quality quote like I posted previously

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Suggestions to make in terms of getting a quote for the work. It's really quite essential and has to be the next step we understand how much you are going to claim for.

I must say I would have gone for the smaller job myself because the risk factors are far less and also you could consider it as a kind of exploratory claim and only that if you won that claim then there would be a good chance that they might put their hands up in respect of the rest. Bring the claim in respect of the smaller contract with send them a message that you are serious and that the claim for the larger contract will be on its way real soon.

We've been through the whole of August and no quotes have been obtained – but instead the delayed silence is now prompted the other side to take actions in respect of statutory demands. This is partly because of their assertive style but also because they will be have the impression that you are simply trying to let it go quiet and avoid paying.

I'm sure you realise how important this is but you now need to prioritise it – even if it means that you're going to have to pay for the quotes but it is extremely important. I think it would be difficult to move forward without this and they have upped the ante and so I think that the matter is even more pressing

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I take your point on pursuing the smaller claim first. I think thats a better choice. I was thinking of using my time wisely and maximising my effort.

 

I already to have a quote. I attached it to the previous quote. I can assure you I've really been chasing these contractors for a quote for some time. I'm going to try and get more individualised quotes for the front and the back.

 

I'm just quite concerned about this statutory demand at the moment as from what I understand, this has the potential to make me bankrupt

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Andyorch - as just let me know that he will be along later to get involved with the statutory demand problem.

Meanwhile, on the rear patio claim, please could you post up the inspection report or that portion of it, and also the quote – or that portion of it which refers solely to that. I'd like to disentangle all the stuff so that the issue is completely clear to me.

To forget that you have first hand experience. We are simply trying to understand what is going on through what we are receiving here

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The priority action here must be in setting a side the SD which must be dealt with immediately. Its unfortunate that they didn't issue a normal claim as you could have mitigated and counterclaimed so any possible claim from yourself will have to placed on the back burner for now until the SD is set a side.

 

Go to my first link in post# 41 above or the link below and download and complete the form IAA its self explanatory and this should be completed and served on the court as advised in the SD instructions on setting a side. I would suggest you do this today and if possible hand deliver/email it to the court (Newcastle County Court)

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/apply-to-the-court-about-an-insolvency-issue-form-iaa

 

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Further information on understanding the process and how to complete the form.

 

https://www.nationaldebtline.org/fact-sheet-library/statutory-demands-ew/

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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