CENTRICA & CST Claimform - Reclaiming Training Bonds as Overpaid Wages *** Claim Dismissed***

[WildWookie]

Hey BadMojo,

 I'm in the same boat.

 

Heard nothing since I left in 2017. My Union Rep told me to ignore any correspondence, because there was thousands of engineers they'd have to go after before me, besides he'd never heard of them chasing up Engineers for the so called 'bond' as Centrica don't have a leg to stand on (I wonder if we have a case against the union).

 

Centrica also took my final wage, leaving me in financial dire straits, fortunately I managed to borrow money, so I could stay in my home. I did complain to Centrica about this, but they wouldn't reply to my pleas for help. They did this to several people who left before me, including one guy who literally just had a new born baby. Leaving him having to beg for money, to keep a roof over his child's head.

I thought the way Centrica did this was either illegal or immoral but as a lowly engineer, I couldn't fight it, so considered the 'bond' dealt with as they had taken all of my money. 

 

I was shocked to receive my CST letter on 28th June (Dated 8th June - which I think was deliberate) stating I'd been overpaid - This is false. During my time at BG I was in fact underpaid, by a minimum of £4,000 per year compared to other comparable utility companies wage structures.
 

I replied to their letter, stating I don't know anything about being 'overpaid' and I wanted documentation and evidence. I've heard nothing back until today... When I received a Claim Form from County Court Business Centre demanding £2500.
 

I have spoke to someone within the CST legal department today. He actually read out my response, so they got my letter, but said, they'd already proceeded with the case.

 

I've asked for evidence, which he said he would send straight through, and after being cut off and calling back they said they've asked Centrica for this evidence. Strange?

They also told me that this Court letter is on hold and I don't have to do anything - which I don't believe... 

When I left I had discussions with the union about constructive dismissal - It seemed like Centrica had taken on too many engineers and once they were out in the field, they were trying to get rid of them.

My previous BG manager, who head-hunted me after I left, said he left because he didn't like the way BG was treating their engineers... and 'it wasn't just the engineers they were trying to get rid of, it's the old school managers too" - So that may have a bearing on our cases...
 

You are not alone BadMojo, and if I hear anything, I'll post it on here... 

I'm glad I found this page today

 

[BankFodder]

@WildWookie

thank you for this very interesting story.

Would you mind starting a new thread and telling us about it there and we can ask questions to find out where you are in all of this and maybe offer you some help.

[dx100uk]

yes start a new topic please

hit create in the top red banner

 

also pop the results of this in your 1st post too

 

You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do - Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

[WildWookie]

Hi I responded to BadMojo... and was asked to start a new conflab, so here goes.

 

 

Centrica seem to be targeting 2017 leavers from British Gas. Apparently reclaiming 'alleged' training bonds under the false title of 'Overpaid Wages'.

After hearing nothing for over 4 years, all of a sudden I received a letter dated 8th June 2021, which arrived June 28nd 2021 from CST Law. Looking at other replies, this seems to be happening a lot. I don't know if it was deliberate, but it's strange that it's happening to many BG ex-engineers - Modus Operandi?

 

A bit of background here...

It was only a couple of years after the economic crash, so many of us were grateful to have a job... 

British Gas sold the fact that you would be working for BG and that was a status symbol... So not only were BG wages roughly about £4000 per annum lower compared to other utility companies, they included something in your contract, saying they could claim a training bond from you if you left. £9000 if you left year 1, £6000 in year 2 and £3000 in year 3. 

 

A lot of new starters were nervous about this, but a job was a job and as soon as you left the training centre you were reassured on patch at Team Meetings about this so called Bond. I was told not to worry! When asked, these 'bonds' were dismissed by union reps, as unenforceable, and were "just a smoke screen to keep staff retention up, as all training was in-house and carried out by BG staff, so by law, there was nothing to pay back - So don't worry about it" - Direct quote!!!!

 

During training, engineers were also told/ coerced into joining the GMB. They would cover your back and be on your side if anything happened - As time went on though, they didn't seem to be, they appeared more to be a political arm of British Gas. I remember them making a presentation - 'telling' engineers which way to vote in the 2016 Europe referendum. That didn't go down well with a few of the seasoned engineers - who shortly after , weren't there.... Mnmmnnn.

 

In early 2017, rumours were rife about BG recruiting too many engineers, and we were told to watch your back and cover your behind.

So whether, leaving was your choice or not, it seemed in 2017 a lot of engineers left. The confident ones, the opinionated ones, the loud ones. If you didn't keep your head down, you could be next. Some engineers were offered Hobson's Choice... Either go or be forced out...

Constructive dismissal comes to mind, but who is going to take on Centrica?

 

Every engineer who left, who I know, didn't get their final wage. A lot, including myself, were left in severe dire straits. Every engineer who left, who I know, kicked off about this and were ignored by British Gas. I thought they had a duty of care? I actually called my union rep, I enquired about BG holding back my entire final wage and if it was legal. He told me I could fight for my wages, but it would probably cost me more than I was owed... and did I really think I would win. With no wage, no money and no safety net, 

 

I asked advice about the bond... He told me they wouldn't chase me for it... in all his years he'd never heard of BG demanding it from anyone, besides, they'd taken my wages and that probably covered it anyway. So don't fight for your wages and it'll all go away. So I for one, didn't fight. I just went. Like a lot of other engineers, I just moved on. skip forward 4 happy years since I left British Gas and CST Law is now demanding money on Centrica's behalf!!! Where do we stand?

It seems that their demands are erroneous. I was never overpaid, so therefore I don't owe Centrica anything... There was no external training - So as the union rep said - "There's nothing to owe"

 

Do I make a counterclaim for my wages? A counterclaim for putting me into hardship? A Counterclaim for their failure of duty of care? I didn't ask for this fight, but if Centrica are coming for us, could we band together and go after them? Could we get this kicked? Could we countersue?

 

Any help would be gratefully received!!

[dx100uk]

please complete this:

 

You have received a Court Claim ISSUED IN ENGLAND & WALES What you need to do - Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

 

no dont counterclaim

there isn't anything in the UK like class action and individual private court claims are far more damaging esp to a large co. like BG.

 

 

[BadMojo]

Any news WW?

[WildWookie]

Hi BM,

I've acknowledged the court documents. and now I'm waiting for their evidence. Nothing has arrived as yet.

As I don't think there is any!!!

 

As I recall, they dropped the bond on us in the training centre, rather than within the employment contract - possibly a way to get around employment law, but they aren't claiming a  bond repayment, they're claiming 'Overpaid Wages' and I've never had overpaid wages.

 

Working for Team Penguin we were underpaid compared to the rest of the industry by thousands, so to me, that's an untruth - Unless I'm mistaken, they need to prove I was overpaid.

 

To be fair I'm not worrying too much about it. I've acknowledged their claim, I've disputed it... I'll go through the system and if I have to pay up in the end - well, I'll pay up, but it'll only be what I can afford. 

 

The union was pretty adamant that the bond wasn't enforceable, but they would never say that in writing, as the union were on too much of a good thing with British Gas. They talked the talk, but when it came to it, they did nowt for me and other leavers who I've spoken to. Just platitudes and their advice, which of course was off the record

 

So, I'll just sit and wait until I hear anything!

[dx100uk]

can you fill this out please:

 

 

did you send a CPR yet?

 

[BadMojo]

Have you just acknowledged, or filed a defence as well?

[WildWookie]

Well, they seem to be moving again.

 

Like most of the Ex-Team Penguin Engineers on here, I joined in 2015 and left in 2017... Almost seems like there was something nefarious going on with BG (Which was possibly confirmed by my BG manager after they left )

 

I got my July 8th 2021 dated CST LAW letter at the end of July. I  asked CST LAW for evidence of this 'overpayment'. Submitted a defence via the portal, raising questions about CST LAW and Centrica, as well as denying any 'Overpayment'...

 

Then I've heard nothing...

Until last Saturday - 18th January 2022, when I received a copy of my contract and the bond information. In which they claimed this bond, was an overpayment -  (Legally is that right?)

 

CST LAW also stated that I've only got 14 days to reply... or else, essentially!

 

Is this legal.

 

How can they send a letter, not giving me 30 days, then raise a court case, then do nothing for 6 months...?

I mean, if it is legal, it's very unprofessional.

 

here are my questions...

As they raised this in court last July, does that mean that they can still chase me 6 years after I joined the company, or does the 6 year cap go from when I left, or are they just trying it on?

 

I was surprised to hear from them last summer, and now I'm surprised again to receive this documentation after so long. Are they allowed to do this? 

 

Has anyone else heard from CST LAW in January?

 

Is it worth fighting, doing a deal, or risking it with the court?

 

Any help would be appreciated!!!

Cheers!!!

Edited January 25, 2022 by dx100uk
added A few blank lines only..dx

[dx100uk]

post moved to your own thread....

 

i would suspect if you did file a defence that if you check MCOL status the last thing is your defence filing?

and you had a letter from the court acking your defence filing and giving the fleecers 28days?

 

if so the claim is autostayed and it will cost them £275 to raise an N244 to try and lift the stay.

if/upon that the COURT will write and tell you ...till then..its them trying to make you wet yourself.

 

to help others you may wish to redact and scan up what was sent recently to one mass PDF

 

i will suspect

On 03/08/2021 at 14:56, WildWookie said:

As I recall, they dropped the bond on us in the training centre, rather than within the employment contract

is what you have now?  that was an important insight you gave, though i doubt its enforceable...

[WildWookie]

On 25/01/2022 at 22:48, dx100uk said:

i would suspect if you did file a defence that if you check MCOL status the last thing is your defence filing?

and you had a letter from the court acking your defence filing and giving the fleecers 28days?

 

You suspect correctly.

 

i've just checked and the last thing on there is my defence. I didn't get a letter from the court though

 

. I did this all online, and my defence was acknowledged, but I've heard nothing from Centrica CST LAW or the court since.

 

I'll try and get the docs scanned as soon as I can for everyone's benefit.

Thanks again!!

[WildWookie]

Just got an email, they're applying to unstay my case - Can I object? If so how?

Not sure what to do now!!!!

Stressed!

[dx100uk]

how come they have you email?

 

await for the court to inform you if its real.

 

bet its not.

 

can you redact and pop all the documents into one mass PDF please

read upload crefully.

 

 

[dx100uk]

On 03/08/2021 at 16:49, dx100uk said:

can you fill this out please:

 

 

 

And we still need to see your defence as well as doing the above 

[WildWookie]

It was me.

 

Centrica and CST took me to court.

 

At the start the judge almost scoffed at CST Law for asking for interest... I think her exact words were "you'll really have to convince me". I was unaware that they were trying to screw me out of interest too, so exclaimed "Ya What". The judge told me not to worry.

So I was on the back foot...

 

I thought i was going to lose all the way through, but at the end, the case was dismissed, the Judge told CST Law if they were going to bring more cases like this they needed to 're-evaluate the way they were doing things'. She also criticised British Gas, stating I'd been treated appallingly, and received bad advice from the union.

 

Every point I raised was dismissed, like the man said "the law is the law". Like questioning why all the so called errors and mistakes in my case were on CST Law's side, and to their benefit, when they had all the legal experience and I had none.

 

I challenged the legality of the claim, as CST Law hadn't given me 30 days notice. Like everyone else I got a letter dated 8th July, but didn't receive it until after 22nd of July.

 

I challenged the make up and cost of the training stating that it was an in-house training, and they were trying to unduly penalise me with a retail value of said training, yet having had the benefit of that training for over 2 1/2 years.

 

I also stated because Smart Meter Engineers had been paid approximately £5k a year less than industry standard, the training costs had been recouped.

 

These were all kicked straight out.

I even brought up that I had a meeting when, I was being forced out, with 2 BG staff and union rep and got a verbal agreement with them.

The judge said I should have got it in writing. What chance have we got. 

 

I also said I felt BG and CST Law were harassing and bullying me 'the little guy', this massive global company had tried to financially destroy me when 'I left' and 6 years on, they were trying to do it again. 

 

At the start of the trial, CST Law also said I was disputing the loyalty bonus, which I never did (another mistake on their end) and the judge clocked this.

 

I stated that BG had negated their duty of care, stripping my wages when I left, and leaving me destitute, but as I didn't realise how the Courts worked. I didn't counter claim.

 

I wrote an 8 page defence with supporting material, showing a pattern of behaviour. How BG had treated not just me, but lots of engineers. Forcing them out, taking their wages, then going after them years later for their 'mythical' training bond.

 

I explained that the bond was brought up in the academy, but don't recall it being brought up before. I also mention, the bond was a separate hand signed document that everyone kicked off at to my recollection, at the mention of it, but was always quickly swept aside.

 

I also said I'd asked for all documentation,  but the same contract and irrelevant e-forms were sent everytime. These e-forms could have been anything. They were not attached to any document... and was equivalent of BG waving a blank piece of paper with my signature on, saying I'd signed for anything they said I did.

 

The CST lawyer asked me if I'd signed my contract.  I told her I must have, otherwise I wouldn't have been working, but the bond was a different document and not part of my contract.

 

I recalled we signed alot of documents,  and none of these had been released to me, but also I was off training for a week, so I suppose the bond documentation could have been signed then, as I didn't recall signing it.

 

The judge asked me if I knew about the bond. I told her I'd heard talk of it. Everytime it had been mentioned or brought up , it had been quickly dismissed like a dirty little secret. '

 

They never enforce it, because they can't' is what I'd heard 'it was a threat that BG brought in because engineers were completing their training and all the other smart metering companies were waiting at the gate with a £5k pay raise if they jumped.

 

Besides everytime the bond was brought up, the conversation would quickly change to something else. So no real conversation took place. It was described to me as an empty threat, I shouldn't worry about... and that came from Nev, the union rep.

 

In the end the Judge dismissed the case.

 

I didn't update this as I'm paranoid that BG will continue to stalk and bully me. The Judge says they can't, but we all know what Centrica is like... and now I wouldn't and couldn't trust them to be honourable.

 

As for mediation. I agreed to go. I didn't get that form. I couldn't have signed that form, because they didn't give me the documentation I requested... I think it's a risk either way.

 

Fortunately I had a judge who read my protestations and took a fair and balanced view. I feel for 'Smooth' as I think he's been bent over by Centrica... but that was the first time I've been in court and I hope it's my last.

I hope this long and rambling thread helps.

[honeybee13]

Thank you very much, I think that update is very helpful. I'm delighted that you won.

 

HB

[dx100uk]

well done that man.

 

can i just clarify you state you made and 8 page defence, i will guess you mean witness statement?

 

dx

 

[WildWookie]

Yes, sorry. I'm not good at this legal stuff. It was a witness statement.  Apologies. 

Thanks HoneyBee. I'm more relieved than anything else

[FTMDave]

Your long and excellent post certainly helps. 

 

Thanks for coming back and telling us.

 

Well done on your victory! 

[dx100uk]

would it be possible for you to at some point redact where necessary and post your WS upto one mass PDF (read upload as to how)

 

as this would immensely help the others here with theirs i expect.

 

 

[WildWookie]

I'll have a look and see if I've got it. My laptop died two weeks before the case and I lost a load of stuff... but I will double check

[dx100uk]

Take the HDD out and get one of the <£10 usb to HDD leads then you can use it just like a penstick.

 

Dx

[WildWookie]

That's a plan! Thanks bud.

[dx100uk]

any chance we can have your paperwork please?
we helped you for free

now help us as others are coming upto to a hearing.

 

dx