Beat Debt Collection Agencies

[simon4amiee]

please if you can help, please contact me either on this thread.

 

I have DEO which comes to effect in December, with regards to the child support agency.

 

I currently pay my ex partner £150 a month, which they wanted proof of, I have now given the CSA this proof, and they have taken all payments I made including Novembers and deducted it from the arrears, but still say I owe £1500, which is to be taken off my wages on monthly installments of £200 (a fifth of my income) and cripple me. I contacted Legal and Trade on this and they would not help at all, and I pleaded with them to alter the amount. I don't mind paying this but my son will suffer as a result. I have apparently had plenty of time to make an offer, however in the time I was disputing the inital claim with the CSA, as my calculated payments were only £38 a month, my ex cancalled the CSA and I started to pay her direct of £150 a month. I said to the CSA in the next 2 years I will have given her well over £3000 more than your calculations anyway, so why are the payments and future payments to her not taken into account.

 

Im not angry, but upset at the prospect of having to give up my job, my home, because the debt collection company cannot reduce these payments to a managable amount, and said they cannot change a DEO (Deduction of Ernings Order)

 

 

 

 

 

Below is a copy of the letter I intend to send:

 

I am writing with regard to my recent letter notifying me I currently owe the child support agency over £3000 pounds, and am to have £200 a month taken from my wages.

 

 

I have to the best of my ability tried to be as accurate as possible with my spending, which I enclosed to them on a prepared spreadsheet. Please note that I always see my son EVERY week from Friday lunchtime through to Sunday evening, and ALL bank holidays plus during ALL my statutory working holidays of 4 weeks a year. I however receive no financial assistance for this.

 

Please note I am actively seeking support on this matter, and have a number of options open to me, which include going down the legal route if necessary, I would rather quit my job, seek Legal Aid, and contest the decision to pay £200 a month for 2 years. I find this figure hard to come to when you know my circumstances. If after all I have provided I have to still pay something surely some agreement can be met which is more affordable and will ultimately benefit my son. I have never refused payment and have always dealt with my responsibilities. As the CSA calculations only came to £38 after taking my personal circumstances into account, I feel £200 is just impossible, and that it comes under section 2.6f of the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines ‘unreasonably large instalments’

 

The last time I paid the child support agency was over a year ago, when we had come to arrangement with my son’s mother regarding maintenance payments going direct to the mother. I decided that paying £40 a month calculated by the CSA was too little, so we agreed I would pay £100 a month directly to my son’s mother, since starting school in September this has risen to £150 per month. Having worked out roughly what is spent on my son while with me in a year it works out to be well over £3000 per year. If I continued paying my normal payments to the CSA I would have paid around £500 a year, as it stands I pay £3000 MORE than that to the benefit of my son.

[Movingon]

Who is demanding money? The Child Support Agency or some debt collection company?

[livelylad]

I am sure you are aware that you get a rebate for having your sona certain number of times during the year.

 

Shared care

 

Basic and reduced rate cases

If a child stays overnight with the non-resident parent on a regular basis, child maintenance for that child will be reduced. This is done on the basis of 1/ 7 for each night of weekly shared care as follows:

Shared careNumber of nights of overnight care by non-resident parent per yearChild maintenance for the child will be reduced by52 to 1031/7104 to 1552/7156 to 1743/7175 or more1/2

• Maintenance will also be reduced by an additional £7 for each child the non-resident parent looks after for 175 nights or more a year
  
• Child maintenance will not be reduced if the child stays with the non-resident parent for less than 52 nights a year

[mailmannz]

There's your problem, you paid money direct to the ex instead of through the CSA. You should never have done that.

 

Unfortunately you are now part of a system that is heavily weighted in favour of women.

 

Mailman

[simon4amiee]

Who is demanding money? The Child Support Agency or some debt collection company?

 

 

Legal & Trade debt collection have issued the DEO on behalf of the CSA

[simon4amiee]

I am sure you are aware that you get a rebate for having your sona certain number of times during the year.

 

 

 

Yes this is why the initial assessment was so low £38 pcm, and which is why I now pay the mothor direct of £150 a month.

 

Thank for that, but its the DEO by the debt collections company that has me worried, I just cannot afford it.

[Movingon]

You don't owe the debt collectors any money as far as I'm aware... someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not aware of any obligation to them at all. You need to get back into a situation where you're negotiating with the CSA

[simon4amiee]

You don't owe the debt collectors any money as far as I'm aware... someone correct me if I'm wrong but I'm not aware of any obligation to them at all. You need to get back into a situation where you're negotiating with the CSA

 

Cheers, I have tried numerous time to deal with the CSA however they keep refering me to the agency that is now acting on their behalf for debt recovery. I still think Im screwed here, Ive offered to pay something, isn't their something in the guidelines that comes under section 2.6f of the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines ‘unreasonably large instalments’

[Movingon]

Cheers, I have tried numerous time to deal with the CSA however they keep refering me to the agency that is now acting on their behalf for debt recovery. I still think Im screwed here, Ive offered to pay something, isn't their something in the guidelines that comes under section 2.6f of the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines ‘unreasonably large instalments’

 

OK, so they won't talk to you. You've made an offer to pay which I presume is affordable - so pay that much and no more every month. They will attempt to bully you into paying more and will apply unawful charges to your "account". You will write them a letter stating that you are paying the maximum that you can afford and that further they should refer to their client regarding their charges as you have no contractural obligation to them for the supply of any service. Say also that if they believe you to be their client, they will immediately forward to you any documentation they have substantiating this.

 

They will continue to bully you; make sure you keep each letter and a record of each 'phone call. Eventually you will have a "body of evidence" which will be enough to convince the Police and/or Trading Standards of an offence under s.40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 - which states that an offence under s.1 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 is committed if a creditor carries out actions which would be deemed Harrassment in an attempt to recover the debt.

 

s.1 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 states that it's harrassment if a normal "man on the street" would think of it as harrassment.

[simon4amiee]

OK, so they won't talk to you. You've made an offer to pay which I presume is affordable - so pay that much and no more every month. They will attempt to bully you into paying more and will apply unawful charges to your "account". You will write them a letter stating that you are paying the maximum that you can afford and that further they should refer to their client regarding their charges as you have no contractural obligation to them for the supply of any service. Say also that if they believe you to be their client, they will immediately forward to you any documentation they have substantiating this.

 

They will continue to bully you; make sure you keep each letter and a record of each 'phone call. Eventually you will have a "body of evidence" which will be enough to convince the Police and/or Trading Standards of an offence under s.40 of the Administration of Justice Act 1970 - which states that an offence under s.1 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 is committed if a creditor carries out actions which would be deemed Harrassment in an attempt to recover the debt.

 

s.1 of the Protection from Harrassment Act 1997 states that it's harrassment if a normal "man on the street" would think of it as harrassment.

 

All sounds great old bean but the Deductions of Earning Order is in effect with my work, therefore I can't pay a maximum, this will go out my wages and will probably lose me my home and or job, as I just cannot afford this amount.

[Movingon]

Did you defend your case in court? What was the Judge thinking setting payments that you can't afford? By the way, it's called an "Attachment of Earnings" order. I would approach the Court who set your payments and ask them to review them.

[simon4amiee]

Did you defend your case in court? What was the Judge thinking setting payments that you can't afford? By the way, it's called an "Attachment of Earnings" order. I would approach the Court who set your payments and ask them to review them.

 

 

Sorry I don't think I explained it, he is a brief summary:

 

2001 - My Son was born

2004 - CSA first contact, saying I have arrears from 2001 to present, they then calculate payments including arrears.

2004 - Start paying CSA £174 a month

2005 - (August) Move from parents to rented accomodation

2005 - (August) CSA Re calculate based on change of circumstance - £38pcm

2005 - (October) Ex cancels CSA, they inform her all arrears are wiped

2005 - (October) I pay her direct £100 pcm

2006 - (September) I now pay her £150 pcm as he is now at school

2006 - (September) letter from CSA saying I owe £3000+ arrears

2006 - (October) Letter from Legal & Trade saying they are now acting on behalf of CSA to collect the debt

2006 - (October) Contact L&T to dispute the claim I owe this amount

2006 - (October) They liase with the CSA and require proof of my direct payments

2006 - (November) L&T issue a DEO for a fifth of my income

2006 - (November) I produce proof of my direct payments

2006 - (November) CSA take direct payments off the £3000 leaving £1500

2006 - (November) contact L&T to confirm this, they refused to lower DEO payments for the outstanding amount, and say it cannot be overturned.

2006 - (November) seeking help !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I have never been in a court, this has all happened in the space of a month, L&T say I have had a number of oppertunities to offer some kind of payment, I replied, yes that maybe but I was disputing the claim at the time, I am not trying to wriggle out of anything if at the end of the day, I owe £1500, then I owe it, but to fork out a fifth of my wages is just borderline madness.

[royboy68]

Stone. The CSA dont have to work through the courts so no Judge is involved with the atachment of earnings order. I had a similar problem a lot of years ago with them when it first started. All you ever get from the CSA for an answer is " The secretary of state says" which efectively means they can do anything they wish. The fact that they have passed it to a DCA means absolutely nothing, the AofE order will have been set up by the CSA and transfered to the DCA on their behalf. As for the actual debt if the poster has had the same unfortunate experience as i did with the CSA they didnt take into account any money that i paid to my ex while it took them 12 months to sort it out which was well over 8 grand, they still hit me with a 6 grand debt and an AofE order. I could well see how some fathers commited suicide. There was no way out of it no matter what i did. They even continued to charge me for 12 weeks AFTER i got custody of the kids as well as the DSS allowing my ex to keep the family allowance for 12 weeks.

[livelylad]

I really feel for you. I hate the CSA i hate the CSA!! They are pants you are right the AOE orders does not go through the court.

These people are a law unto themselves:mad:

[simon4amiee]

VICTORY !!!!!

 

Having gotten written proof I pay the mother 500% more than the original CSA calculations, I contacted the CSA with it, they took all the payments I had made off the £3000, which reduced it by half. However they said the Secretary of State is still owed £1500, and that I would have to ring the collections agency regarding the Deduction of Earnings Order for £200 a month.

 

After speaking with the collections agency, I said there is no way I can afford that sum per month on top of the direct payments, then rent then bills etc as outlined in the expenditure spreadsheet I sent them. They refused to reduce it, and were very unhelpful, and said I couldn't do anything about it.

 

At this point Im very angry, therefore sent out emails to every director at the 'Office of Fair Trading' which is the company who give these collections agencies their licenses. I also emailed every single MP in the area, one of which 'Graham Stewert MP' who offered to assist. I also emailed every director at the collections agency, every media newspaper, citizens advice, trading standards. Then I informed the collections agency of my intend to bring their companies reputation into question as stated in the 'Office of Fair Trading Guidelines' section 2.5d & f

 

d. pressurizing debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large installments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

f. disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

I sent the letter by fax to the collections agency last night, this morning I had a call from them, saying they were giving the matter great urgency to try and resolve it. Bu 4.00pm they had rung me back, and informed me the DEO has been cancelled, and as I pay the mother direct, I do not owe the CSA anything - Case Closed.

 

Now why could this company do that in the first place!!!

 

Suggest they have bad collection practices in place, and the possibility of an MP, media and me generally causing a stink is something they did not want.

[simon4amiee]

!!! QUOTE !!!

I am unsure where to look and really hope someone else might! Last spring myself and my son’s mother came to an agreement that I would pay £150 a month directly to her as ,maintenance. The CSA calculations were stupid, after working out what I earn, and Council Tax etc, they calculated I should pay £38 a month. So my son's mother then apparently cancelled the arrangement with the CSA and I started to pay her £150 direct.

 

A few months ago I receive a letter from a debt collection agency acting on behalf of the CSA demanding I pay outstanding payment dating up to January this year. For some reason I was never contacted by the CSA till my son was 2, so was quite a lot of back payments which were also added into the CSA's original calculation.

of £38 a month.

 

I have now received a deductions of earning order of £200 a month for over year, I have told the agency, numerous time I pay the mother direct, and as I see my son Friday to Sunday, and EVERY statutory holiday I have, I have worked out in a year I fork out £3500 approx for him, which is 3K more than the CSA calculations. I feel very aggrieved I am having to pay this twice, and the mother will NOT sign a letter to say I paid her the money, which would have stopped this say the agency.

 

CSA's original Calculations - £8208 over 18 years

Currently Spend on my son - £63000 approx over 18 years

 

How fair is that!

 

VICTORY !!!!!

 

Having gotten written proof I pay the mother 500% more than the original CSA calculations, I contacted the CSA with it, they took all the payments I had made off the £3000, which reduced it by half. However they said the Secretary of State is still owed £1500, and that I would have to ring the collections agency regarding the Deduction of Earnings Order for £200 a month.

 

After speaking with the collections agency, I said there is no way I can afford that sum per month on top of the direct payments, then rent then bills etc as outlined in the expenditure spreadsheet I sent them. They refused to reduce it, and were very unhelpful, and said I couldn't do anything about it.

 

At this point Im very angry, therefore sent out emails to every director at the 'Office of Fair Trading' which is the company who give these collections agencies their licenses. I also emailed every single MP in the area, one of which 'Graham Stewert MP' who offered to assist. I also emailed every director at the collections agency, every media newspaper, citizens advice, trading standards. Then I informed the collections agency of my intend to bring their companies reputation into question as stated in the 'Office of Fair Trading Guidelines' section 2.5d & f

 

d. pressurizing debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large installments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

f. disregarding claims that debts have been settled or are disputed and continuing to make unjustified demands for payment

 

I sent the letter by fax to the collections agency last night, this morning I had a call from them, saying they were giving the matter great urgency to try and resolve it. Bu 4.00pm they had rung me back, and informed me the DEO has been cancelled, and as I pay the mother direct, I do not owe the CSA anything - Case Closed.

 

Now why could this company do that in the first place!!!

 

Suggest they have bad collection practices in place, and the possibility of an MP, media and me generally causing a stink is something they did not want.

[shywazz]

well done m8y one for the wee people, hope ur son is ok

[Movingon]

Well done chap. You see, they'll tell you anything - literally ANYTHING, to get you to pay. Most of these collection agencies operate outside the Law because The Law refuses to do anything about them until it's dragged, kicking and screaming, into the ring.

 

You did that, and they backed off. Absolutely fantastic job!

[simon4amiee]

I will keep reviving this as I feel, so many people have their lives destroyed by these debt collection companies. I almost gave up my job and home.

 

If a collections agancy are asking for more than you can afford, or asking to pay an amount in full you can beat them easily.

 

I had arrears with the CSA of £1500, and I did owe it, and now I have had it wiped clear, don't you find it odd a company would do that. Below is a small section of the OFT guidelines. The OFT are the ones who give these collections companies the licenses, so although this is not law, the debt collection companies should follow them.

 

Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidelines:

 

Physical Psychological Harassment

 

2.5 Putting Pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

I did a lot of research on this before I got started, but if you follow this rough procedure you cannot go far wrong. Firstly ensure you have sent them you complete list of outgoings and an offer of what you can afford, keep a copy. If they still say you have to pay an unafforadable amount or at worst slam a DEO on you, you should do the following:

 

1. Email every director and evry contact you can get at the OFT, Trading Standards, TV, Newspaper, local MP, National MP, Eurpean Courts.

 

2. Fax the collections agency informing them of your intent to bring their company into disrepute as ther breaching the guideline set out by the OFT, and who you have just contacted.

 

3. They WILL comply within 24 hours, I know it worked, they absolutely wet themselves when they found out what I had done.

 

I will still never find out why the debt I actually owed was written off, my guess is they didn't me poking my nose into their dodgy dealings.

 

If anyone wants any help, please feel free to email me on [edit please do not post personal contact details on the forum]

 

Im just a regular working Joe, who wants to helps others who are in the same situation I was.

[simon4amiee]

just keeping it active

[simon4amiee]

to hell with it, I am going to persue this as to why my debt was written off only when I threatened them!!!!

[ncf355]

Nice work here, S4A - well done you!

 

Just a note, I'd change that email address to 'at' instead of @ or insert a 'removethis' somewhere in it to stop your email address being spammed via harvesting programs?

 

[simon4amiee]

will do, Ive just had an email from someone having a similar if not worse experience with '1st Credit' debt collection company, I have now given her the means to sort them out good and proper.

[seylectric]

Well done, this is what we need, somebody actually FIGHTING the system! We ALL need to look towards doing this at a practical level instead of just moaning about the injustice of it all.

[simon4amiee]

I will keep reviving this as I feel, so many people have their lives destroyed by these debt collection companies. I almost gave up my job and home.

 

If a collections agancy are asking for more than you can afford, or asking to pay an amount in full you can beat them easily.

 

I had arrears with the CSA of £1500, and I did owe it, and now I have had it wiped clear, don't you find it odd a company would do that. Below is a small section of the OFT guidelines. The OFT are the ones who give these collections companies the licenses, so although this is not law, the debt collection companies should follow them.

 

Office of Fair Trading Debt Collection Guidelines:

 

Physical Psychological Harassment

 

2.5 Putting Pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive

 

2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows:

 

f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so

 

I did a lot of research on this before I got started, but if you follow this rough procedure you cannot go far wrong. Firstly ensure you have sent them you complete list of outgoings and an offer of what you can afford, keep a copy. If they still say you have to pay an unafforadable amount or at worst slam a DEO on you, you should do the following:

 

1. Email every director and evrey contact you can get at the OFT, Trading Standards, TV, Newspaper, local MP, National MP, Eurpean Courts. (I have a lot if you need any help)

 

1. If a collections agency are giving you trouble on the phone, DO THIS NOW (firstly ensure that they are aware you have just purchased a'TL3 Telephone Record Interface' so from now on all your conversations will be recorded, it might be worth looking into doing this anyway. Explain to them that you have been instructed to do this by a solicitor and that you believe they are in violation of the Office of Fair Trading Guidelines under Physical Psychological Harassment 2.5 Putting Pressure on debtors or third parties is considered to be oppressive, 2.6 Examples of unfair practices are as follows: f. pressurising debtors to pay in full, in unreasonably large instalments, or to increase payments when they are unable to do so)

 

2. Fax the collections agency informing them of your intent to bring their company into disrepute as they are breaching the guidelines set out by the OFT, and who you have just contacted.

 

3. They WILL comply within 24 hours, I know it worked, they absolutely wet themselves when they found out what I had done.

 

I will still never find out why the debt I actually owed was written off, my guess is they didn't want me poking my nose into their dodgy dealings.

 

If anyone wants any help, please feel free to email me on [edit]

 

Im just a regular working Joe, who wants to helps others who are in the same situation I was.