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Hi guys,

Since the 30th October i have been reading the info on this site, compiling the list of penalty charges for the last six years, and have opened an alternative current account.

 

Now to begin the process in earnest. I have posted off my preliminary request for £4,562.50 (4th Dec) and await a reply. :)

 

Looking at all the threads i'm sure i'll be back for some support along the way, but i'm confident i can retrieve a shocking amount of edit money with your help. Hopefully, a little further down the line i can offer some support to others starting out. Certainly got a few others interested, and have pointed them towards this site.

 

Only point of concern at the moment is that i have missed a 2 monthly loan payments wih Lloyds TSB and i'm hoping that this claim does not lead to them demanding full payment of the loan immediatley. Anyone know if this is likely? surprisingly, i have'nt had any corresponance from Lloyds to date on the arrears. :confused:

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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I wouldn't have though so.

 

The only threads I have read where that has happened is when claiming against Egg, and they begin a counter claim for what is owned to them. However there are no cases of Egg getting their outstanding money back in one swoop... just a threat to scare people. No judge would allow that.

 

So as far as TSB go, I think you shouldn't worry about that and continue with your claim.

 

Good luck :)

Moodle

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Thanks Maxine,

 

i'd already decided to start my claim anyway, but it's good to recieve some moral support :)

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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Hi Pondfish and welcome.

 

They may get a bit nasty, however if they did try that they need to get it from you, in one lump, I'm guessing not possible. And also the judge wouldn't allow it.

 

I suggest speaking to CCCS. CCCS -

 

They are a free government backed company, which helps you pay off your debt, in most cases (all in my case) they stop the interest on loans and credit cards.

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Thanks Whoareya!

 

I'll look into that option, thanks for the link. :)

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Got an update and need some advice. Is it best to continue this threador post a new one?

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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Continue on here, cos the moderators will just merge the threads if you start a new one!! Hope its good news!

Spotnot v MBNA and their nasty solicitors (on behalf of my friend)

 

If I have helped in any way, click my scales.

 

Remember, we were all newbies once!!

 

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Thanks Spotnot, still finding my way around. Not used a forum before i looked at this site.

Nothing exciting to report, just received a response from Lloyds TSB to my preliminary request. Looks to me like a standard get lost letter, but I want to clarify a few points before submitting a Letter before action. Perhaps someone can help? The Pondfish is a bit slow on the uptake sometimes, and we don’t want to hand the initiative to them now do we?

This is a copy of the letter from Lloyds:-

Dear Pondfish,

Thanks for getting in touch with us. I am sorry you are unhappy about your account charges.

Like any business, we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When customers don’t have enough in their accounts to cover a payment, this always means extra work – and it has to happen very quickly. We have to agree to make the payment by setting up or increasing an overdraft, or tell customers we can’t agree it. We feel it’s fair to charge for this service.

Of course it’s only fair too, that we’re completely open about any charged-for services before you take them up. That’s why we take care to give every new customer the latest guide to our charges. You can also get up-to-date details about fees and borrowing rates at all our branches, through our helpline and on our website.

Just as importantly, we do everything we can to help our customers avoid these charges altogether. I’m sure you’ll know how easy it is to keep a running check on how much is in your account. You’re free to get an up-to-date balance at any of our cash machines, over the phone, on line and by weekly text to your mobile. If you know a payment is going to take you over the limit we’ve agreed, you’re welcome to see if we can raise it – and we can do that for you by phone, on line or at any of our branches.

You’ve mentioned the new guidelines from the Office Of Fair Trading on credit card default charges. We do not agree with the OFT’s thinking on this and we’re still talking it through with them. But the important point is that the guidelines are about “default” charges that people pay when they break an agreement with us. The fees we charge for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit are not default charges because you haven’t broken your agreement. They are our prices for the service we provide in these situations.

I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible – and why I can’t agree to cancel your charges.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do. If we cannot come to an agreed solution after this I will help you refer your complaint to the financial Ombudsman service for independent advice.

If you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need to reply to my letter. If I have not heard back from you by the 2/2/2007, I will close my file, though I will be happy to reopen it should you come back at any point afterwards.

Please give me a call if it would help to talk through anything in my letter.

Yours sincerely

XXXXXX

Team Manager

Customer Service Recovery Centre Andover

These are the questions I find myself asking:-

  • They claim that they are subjected to “extra work that has to happen very quickly” Are they trying to say the charges are not only for an automated letter, but also other tasks that have to be carried out? They have neglected to break these costs down, so I suspect this might be dodgy ground for them, as they would have to present these costs in the event of a court case? Are they trying to claim additional workloads in order to justify the costs they are charging?
  • They claim that the OFT guidelines are for Credit Card default charges. I believe the OFT guidelines cover penalty charges on all financial contracts including Bank Accounts, right?
  • “The fees we charge for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit are not default charges because you haven’t broken your agreement. They are our prices for the service we provide in these situations.”

What are they saying here? Firstly I never requested to go over my overdraft limit, and secondly when I exceeded my agreed overdraft, I did break my agreement didn’t I? Is there a difference between default and penalty charges?

  • The letter template for the Letter Before Action does not seem to acknowledge receipt of a reply to the preliminary letter. Should I mention I received it, or stick to the format laid down?

If anyone can spare some time to give some advice it would be very much appreciated :)

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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Thanks Spotnot, still finding my way around. Not used a forum before i looked at this site.

Nothing exciting to report, just received a response from Lloyds TSB to my preliminary request. Looks to me like a standard get lost letter, but I want to clarify a few points before submitting a Letter before action. Perhaps someone can help? The Pondfish is a bit slow on the uptake sometimes, and we don’t want to hand the initiative to them now do we?

This is a copy of the letter from Lloyds:-

 

Dear Pondfish,

Thanks for getting in touch with us. I am sorry you are unhappy about your account charges.

Like any business, we do make a charge for some of our extra services. When customers don’t have enough in their accounts to cover a payment, this always means extra work – and it has to happen very quickly. We have to agree to make the payment by setting up or increasing an overdraft, or tell customers we can’t agree it. We feel it’s fair to charge for this service.

Of course it’s only fair too, that we’re completely open about any charged-for services before you take them up. That’s why we take care to give every new customer the latest guide to our charges. You can also get up-to-date details about fees and borrowing rates at all our branches, through our helpline and on our website.

Just as importantly, we do everything we can to help our customers avoid these charges altogether. I’m sure you’ll know how easy it is to keep a running check on how much is in your account. You’re free to get an up-to-date balance at any of our cash machines, over the phone, on line and by weekly text to your mobile. If you know a payment is going to take you over the limit we’ve agreed, you’re welcome to see if we can raise it – and we can do that for you by phone, on line or at any of our branches.

You’ve mentioned the new guidelines from the Office Of Fair Trading on credit card default charges. We do not agree with the OFT’s thinking on this and we’re still talking it through with them. But the important point is that the guidelines are about “default” charges that people pay when they break an agreement with us. The fees we charge for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit are not default charges because you haven’t broken your agreement. They are our prices for the service we provide in these situations.

I do hope you can see that we make our charging system as fair as possible – and why I can’t agree to cancel your charges.

Please let me know if there is anything else I can do. If we cannot come to an agreed solution after this I will help you refer your complaint to the financial Ombudsman service for independent advice.

If you are happy with the way I have dealt with your complaint, there is no need to reply to my letter. If I have not heard back from you by the 2/2/2007, I will close my file, though I will be happy to reopen it should you come back at any point afterwards.

Please give me a call if it would help to talk through anything in my letter.

 

Yours sincerely

 

XXXXXX

 

Team Manager

Customer Service Recovery Centre Andover

 

 

 

 

These are the questions I find myself asking:-

 

  • They claim that they are subjected to “extra work that has to happen very quickly(ahhh bless um!!) Are they trying to say the charges are not only for an automated letter, but also other tasks that have to be carried out?(trying to but we all know that penalty charges are unlawful and that they are disproportionate) They have neglected to break these costs down (because they would show how much they are ripping us off with there money making scams), so I suspect this might be dodgy ground for them (definately), as they would have to present these costs in the event of a court case? Are they trying to claim additional workloads in order to justify the costs they are charging? (trying to yes, will it wash with us? NO)
  • They claim that the OFT guidelines are for Credit Card default charges. I believe the OFT guidelines cover penalty charges on all financial contracts including Bank Accounts, right? Yes true the OFT did rule about credit cards but they will soon be looking at Banks, if they are not already doing so, however this still doesn't change the fact that the charges are unlawful)
  • “The fees we charge for dealing with your request to go over your agreed overdraft limit are not default charges (they are penalty charges though, and so are irrecoverable at common law) because you haven’t broken your agreement. They are our prices for the service we provide in these situations.” (yeah right, and I was born yesterday)

What are they saying here? Firstly I never requested to go over my overdraft limit, and secondly when I exceeded my agreed overdraft, I did break my agreement didn’t I? Is there a difference between default and penalty charges? (they are pretty much saying their charges are fees for a service not a default or penalty charge)

  • The letter template for the Letter Before Action does not seem to acknowledge receipt of a reply to the preliminary letter. Should I mention I received it, or stick to the format laid down? (you could add thank you for your letter dated **/**/** unfortunately you dont seem to be taking my request for repayment seriously blah blah blah. Or you could just stick to the templated letter.

If anyone can spare some time to give some advice it would be very much appreciated :)

 

 

Hope this helps

 

Tanzarelli

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This is the standard 'get lost' letter from LLoyds. Just stick to your guns and send the LBA. If you want you can acknowledge the 'get lost' letter by just saying ' Thank you for you letter dated xx/12/06. Then just use the LBA template letter.

 

What Lloyds are implying is that they are not charging a penalty for you going over your overdraft, failed direct debits etc. What they are providing you is a service which they say they can charge for. IT IS ALL NONSENSE AND THEY ARE JUST TRYING TO FOB YOU OFF!!!! Funnily enough, this was mentioned on the Money programe last Tuesday. The representative from OFT just laughed, so that shows you what the OFT think of this latest ploy!!

 

The OFT's ruling was initially for credit cards but they are now looking into the bank charges. The banks use this as an excuse to say that the OFT ruling does not apply to them. Just read all the success stories on this site to see how ineffective that argument is!!

 

Theoretically, if you exceed your overdraft, bounce cheques etc, you breach your contract. A breached contract is one which can be remedied, a broken contract is one which has failed entirely. (I think, was many moons ago that I studied contract law) So in effect, what they are saying is correct, you haven't broken your contract. But you have breached it. The charges are for breaching your contract. The rules around breaches are as follows: if you breach a contract you only have to pay what it costs to put the breached party in the same position before the breach took place, ie if it costs the bank £1.50 for a failed direct debit then that is all they should charge you.

 

Ignore this letter, we've all had it. (was it from Debbie?) Just send the LBA and wait. They will be arsey about it, but they will pay up in the end!

 

Good luck

 

Spot

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Spotnot v MBNA and their nasty solicitors (on behalf of my friend)

 

If I have helped in any way, click my scales.

 

Remember, we were all newbies once!!

 

When you win, donate!!!

 

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Thanks Tanzarelli,

 

Had a chuckle at your comments, but they also reassured that i have got a handle on the facts behind my claim.:D

 

This is an awsome site, and i'll be contributing towards it's upkeep with any proceeds from this action. :)

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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Thanks Spotnot,

Excellent advice much appreciated. As i said to Tanzarelli, just making sure i have got a handle on the facts behind my claim. May seem a bit OTT over a standard reponse letter, but better to understand everything from the beginning rather than rush in.

Yes it was from Deb as you suspected.

I feel an LBA coming on! ;)

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hi guys,

 

Update on The Pondfish's progress to date!

 

I gave TSB until the 8th of Jan to reply to my LBA (That allowed a little extra time to allow for the Xmas break, well at least i'm still playing fair!)

TSB actually responded just in the nick of time, their letter dated 5.1.2007 arrived on the 9.1.2007. Guess what! they don't make a habit of this but... £750 to be paid into your account as a gesture of goodwill and final settlement. :D

 

Oh no it's not! (Panto season is upon us!) :D

 

I have waited for a couple of days to see if the payment was forthcoming, and yes, it arrived today reducing the overdraft racked up with these very charges.

 

Now time to start a court claim, and i will be visiting Moneyclaim.gov to initiate a claim for the rest of my money back.

 

a couple of questions you guys could help out with if you don't mind!

 

1. Is it best to reply to Lloyds to acknowledge and reject the offer as final settlement, or just proceed with the claim?

 

2. An initial look at the Moneyclaim website indicates that i should have the full name and address of the person i am claiming against ready. Can anyone let me know what address to use here? I have been sending letters to Customer Service Centre, do i use that address?

 

3. Now that i am starting legal action, i think i saw something on this website asking people to let a moderator know so that progress can be monitored, Am i right?

 

4. are Lloyds likely to claw back the goodwill gesture once they know it's not going to deter me from legal action?

 

 

If anyone can point to something i have missed, or something i should watch out for i would be glad of the advice.

 

So far so good, but i'm determined to get it all back, with the exception of 5% which rightfully belongs to CAG! :D

 

thanks,

 

Pondfish

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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Hi Pondfish

 

1. Is it best to reply to Lloyds to acknowledge and reject the offer as final settlement, or just proceed with the claim?

Have a look at this:

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejection-settlement-offer.html

 

2. An initial look at the Moneyclaim website indicates that i should have the full name and address of the person i am claiming against ready. Can anyone let me know what address to use here? I have been sending letters to Customer Service Centre, do i use that address?

I sent mine to their registered address:

Lloyds TSB Bank plc

25 Gresham Street

London

EC2V 7HN

 

 

3. Now that i am starting legal action, i think i saw something on this website asking people to let a moderator know so that progress can be monitored, Am i right?

Yes if you send a pm to one of the mods, they will put you in the litigation section.

4. are Lloyds likely to claw back the goodwill gesture once they know it's not going to deter me from legal action?

I doubt it very much

Hope that helps.

Good luck with your claim!:)

Barty:)

 

 

I WON!!!! :D :D :D

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloydstsb-successes/1774-barty-lloyds-tsb.html

 

IF I HAVE BEEN HELPFUL PLEASE CLICK THE SCALES:)

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Thanks Barty,

 

Got another couple of questions if you don't mind!

 

What did you enter under Particulars of claim when filling in the online claim request form?

 

should i now deduct the £750-00 Lloyds have paid from my claim?

 

This may prove handy as my claim is for £4,652.50, and with the addition of 8% interest from tomorrow will result in a total claim of £5,235.28. Add the £120-00 court costs and we have a figure of £5,355.28. If £750.00 were subtracted from this (deducting the most recent charges to minimise the interest lost) it would mean i would sneek in under £5000 and therefore be able to take the small claims track.

 

Just to complicate things further i have incurred fresh charges since my LBA. Should i now include these as well, even though they have not been mentioned before?

 

thanks,

 

Pondfish

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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Barty has gone missing! :(

 

Can anyone else help with the questions in my previous post?

 

i have since found a useful thread with info of what to include in the particulars of claim on MCOL. :) But could still do with advice on what to include / remove from my claim?

 

Thanks Pondfish

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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Hi pondfish,

 

Have a look at my thread for LTSB i had a slip up with MCOL and stupidly entered the defendants name and claimants name as LTSB so it was suspended. Then during this time they paid the £750 to me. I had to re file but had to amend mine. Slightly different to your situation as you have yet to file I believe. But if this is the case you need to reject the offer of settlement as if you dont this could cause some probs, there was a thread on the site today who didn't reject and bank trying to calim claim resolved even after entering a defence. Anyway if you have still to file I would think you would have to do what i did and recalculate your claim amount. Read some of the last few posts/pages.

 

Heres the link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/50966-tanzarelli-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Hope this helps.

 

Tanz

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Need some further advice if anyone can help!

having recieved what now seems to be the standard 750-00 offer paid into my account i sent my rejection of settlement letter off today (recorded delivery).

I have prepared my claim on the MCOL website, but do i need to give Lloyds time to recieve the rejection letter before i initate the claim?

their response to my LBA came on the day that period expired, and my letter of rejection reminds them that there will be no extention to this timescale.

Any advice greatly appreciated!

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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i would carry on and litigate - Lloyds won't increase their £750 offer so don't waste anymore of your time. Just begin your MCOL - I prefer to issue it in person at my Court as opposed to online as you get more room on the forms. You will need to state that the bank reimbursed £750 but will not consider the full amount.

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Do you mean i need to add this to the particulars of claim?

i did acknowledge this in my rejection of settlement letter to Lloyds, and i have reduced the amount i'm claming by deducting the most recent charges from my schedule of charges

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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If you have not already claimed and they have paid you £750 then you will need to amend your claim, I had the same thing but I filed a claim and it was suspended due to a technical error, I was advised to divide the £750 by the number of charges I had which which was 25, this gave me a figure of £30 then you take this amount of each individual charge. This gives you a new figure which you then file for with the original interest total as this remains the same. However the daily rate is now different. See my thread for more info. Its not that far back.

 

Heres the link: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/lloyds-bank/50966-tanzarelli-lloyds-tsb.html

 

Hope that helps.

 

Tanz

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Hi Tanz,

I haven't filed my claim yet so can adjust my schedule of charges if necessary.

Is it really necessary to split the £750 across all the charges? I have 76 charges listed which works out around £9.86 / charge reduction. Also if i do this on the spreadsheet the amount of interest will be affected. Surely you can't still claim the same amount in interest after reducing the amount you are claiming?

At present i have eliminated or reduced the most recent charges (to minimise the reduction in interest). I saw this advice in another thread a few days ago.

What do you think?

Also, did you mention the £750 payment in the particulars of claim?

 

On another note (just to make you feel better) i was looking on the MCOL website, and decided to start completing the form in preparation. I was under the illusion that you could enter all the info, save it, and file the claim later. Unfortunately once you enter the payment details it submits the form, and i had not filled it in correctly!

Managed to phone them first thing next morning and managed to cancel it. Waiting for my £120 back now, so you are not the only one to get caught out! :o

LloydsTSB - Current Account claim £5,554 settled unconditionally 25.4.2007 :D

If the Pondfish has helped click his scales! ;-)

 

Please donate to this site if you can! :-)

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