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    • If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.
    • I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.   Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.   [ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]
    • Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:   19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include: ... iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold] Victims' Right to Review Scheme | The Crown Prosecution Service WWW.CPS.GOV.UK   I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.   If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.   I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...   [Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]
    • @Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .   Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler.    He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.   You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.   My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed    I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 
    • I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.   I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.     But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.   One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it.    (I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)   Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS   I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.   I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.   One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?
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NPE/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC - wrong reg - MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR


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My first draft attached is based on a post half way down the link from FTM Dave. However, I would like to find info referring to mistyped reg numbers and how it's not acceptable to fine motorists for a mistyped entry.  Any ideas how to find this info or proposed info so I can quote section and para to back up the info in the letter would be really appreciated.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

WWW.GOV.UK

We are consulting on new measures to improve the regulation of the private parking industry.

 

Others have said how the new

Reply Letter of Claim - BW Legal.pdf

Edited by SCDH
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Well done on finding the snotty letter on Happy54's thread, that is exactly the sort of thing you should be sending.

 

You also link to the government consultation document.  What you are looking for is in "Chapter 4: The level of parking charges".

We could do with some help from you.

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Good work.

 

We'd probably have made it "snottier"!  However, the important thing is you've shown you know the law and the PPC know they are on a hiding to nothing if they do do court.

 

There are no guarantees, but we've seen them recently back off virtually always in these cases.

 

Write on the bottom of your letter COPIED TO NATIONAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD.  This is because crooked solicitors like BW Legal are infamous for egging on their clients to go to court, even if the case is pants.  After all, they get paid either way.  Let the PPC know directly you've sussed their sordid little game.

 

Obviously quote their PCN reference number on the letters.

 

If none of the other regulars disagree, invest in two 2nd class stamps tomorrow and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office.

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks for taking a look. I just didn't want cause confrontation for the sake of it but I take your point and I appreciate there are no guarantees.  

 

Good advice about copied to COPIED TO NATIONAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD and quoting the PCN reference number on the letters.

 

I was going to ask if the letters needed to be registered post but you've answered my question by getting certificates of posting.

 

I'll update the thread on the response or lack of when their cut off date to reply has passed.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear all,

 

I've just had a letter from BW Legal (attached) which is in response to my letter after receiving their LBC.  As you will see, they quote Parkingeye V Beavis in the fact that they don't have to consider loss as a relevant factor.

 

While they state a full and correct reg must be entered to avoid becoming liable for a PCN, they obviously don't mention that it's a demines offence but are happy to discuss it in court.

 

I would also value opinions on their view that once I left the carpark to receive payment for the meter the offence was complete.

 

Thanks in advance again for all your help.

Snotty Letter Response.pdf

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what witness statement with the snotty letter did you send?

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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why did you send that, you were not advised too nor told us you were??

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Because it demonstrates that payment was made and when I mentioned it on the forum earlier the response was positive.  If it goes to court they would see that statement anyway.

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well we didnt say send that but no matter. next time stick to the advice please don't play your cards early!!.

 

yours is not the next move

wait and see if they issue a letrter of claim, they have 6yrs, don't move without informing them.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • dx100uk changed the title to NPE/BW ANPR PCN PAPLOC - wrong reg - MJB Winelodge, Bridge Road, Lowestoft, Suffolk NR32 3LR

Thanks DX, 

 

While your communications are direct, I do appreciate your knowledge and experience in these matters and genuinely value your input.  As far as I see it, the facts are the facts and I'm certainly not going to commit perjury in court by saying anything other than what the statement says.  I know you weren't implying that, I'm just saying that the statement tells the truth and I can't deviate from it. However, I do take your point about not playing my cards early. 

 

While they might have a technical point over a breach by leaving the carpark to get the money for the machine, I would counter that with the point that it was very dark and the machine had no lighting.  Also, the street lights were facing away from all signage resulting in poor lighting to read.  As a result, it's hard to be responsible for an accidental breach if you aren't aware of the terms when first entering the carpark.  However, I respect your advice if you think otherwise.

 

Can you confirm that I need to receive another Letter of Claim before having to respond?

 

Many thanks.

 

 

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I was in a timewarp there. Sadly not firing on all cylinders for a good while to come yet..

 

youve had the paploc so what they might do is leave it till near statute barred date and send another paploc years down the line or raise a court claim...who knows..

But safe to say yours is not the next move unless you move...

 

Its also worthy to note they cant intimate they can enforce reverse trespass. They cant even enforce trespass on the land they might manage, let alone leave the site and enter another site and say thats not allowed.....

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Your letter to them did admit that you were the driver. That isn't fatal but in situations where there is no transfer of liability from the driver to the keeper then there are occasions when the Court will not allow the assumption that the keeper is automatically the driver.  So a driver can win the case if there is insufficient evidence to prove they were driving at the time.

In your case the result probably hangs on the reg.number and good luck with winning that DCBL and NPE. 

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No real harm has been done but the thing to remember is that rogue solicitors like BW Legal who are in cahoots with the PPCs are simply conmen.  They're solicitors, they know the law, they know about "de minimis", they know the money isn't owed but carry on regardless.

 

That's why forum regular lookinforinfo prepared the snotty letter you found to show their sordid little schemes had been sussed and it would have been better to send them the whole thing.

 

Once you start discussing evidence with them they will come out with every lie imaginable to try to get you to pay.  It's complete nonsense to say the grace period ended because you went to get a quid from the chippy, what you did was no different to going back to your car to get some change, for example.

 

You've been through PAPLOC now, they sent the Letter of Claim, you told them where to get off, relax now, yours is not the next move.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks gents,

 

I've obviously made mistakes with the statement of payment confirming me as the driver but it also helps to confirm payment was made, bit of a double edged sword but lesson learnt.

 

Point taken about not discussing points of law and yes, I can't see the difference between getting a quid from the chippy or anywhere else.

 

Also, good to know they can't enforce trespass or reverse trespass.

 

As advised by all of you, I'll let them make the next move.

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Still plenty to send them packing .

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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