Permission required - leasehold fence replacement

[cosmic88]

Hiya,

 

Could someone please clarify if the following lease term applies to our neighbours fence? 

 

The property is a leasehold ground floor maisonette.  We've tried to urge caution that the landlord may not be able to consent to his new fence after the fact, if the work qualifies.  He should check first, but he's started today.

 

Rather than repair the fence (standard 6ft, panels) like everyone else in like for like manner, he has opted to replace the fence entirely in a completely different style, made it a foot taller and moved the gate to the other end of the garden (on same access path, but further down than before).

 

Not to erect any wall, fence or gate or other boundary feature which exceeds the height of 1 metre without first obtaining the consent in writing from the Landlord.

 

The problem is that he has a very bad temper and the landlord could make him take it down potentially and we don't want him to get himself in more trouble if we can help it.  I can't stomach any more shouting matches outside my door... can anyone put my worries to rest?

 

Thanks!

[dx100uk]

well the existing fence is already more than 1metre if it's 6ft, so that rather defeats the fact of non allowance of anything above 1mtr high?

is another 1ft really going to cause other residents any issues? 

and is the matter of an access gate being moved a few feet along the same path access again seriously going to upset other residents?

 

its a new fence so is most probably improving things overall......

 

just musing.

[stu007]

Hi

 

It's a bit late now after they have gone and pulled the old fence down and erected their own one higher than the original one in place.

 

If that clause is the exact same in their Lease Agreement then it is as it states.

 

If they have exceeded the 1 metre height restriction and not obtained written consent from the Landlord then the Landlord could actually take this as a breach of the lease agreement and could enforce this neighbour to remove this new fence and replace the original fence at the neighbours cost.
 

On the other hand the Landlord may be happy with the new fence as it has cost them nothing irrespective of the above clause

[brassnecked]

The wildcardoe elephant in all this is the Council, and a nosey Council Official could report it to Planning and they might decide it breaches Planning Guidelines and order its removal.

 

Planning Permission | Fences, gates and garden walls | Planning Portal

WWW.PLANNINGPORTAL.CO.UK

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Details of the planning permission and building regulation regimes for Fences, gates and garden walls in England

 If its significantly different, neighbour might need Planning Permission for it.

[cosmic88]

Thank you all for your thoughts.

 

I presumed that the rule was worded in that way for the landlord to retain control over the fences.  They could not reasonably object to like for like replacements in my mind but it allows some leeway.

 

13 hours ago, stu007 said:

Hi

 

It's a bit late now after they have gone and pulled the old fence down and erected their own one higher than the original one in place.

 

If that clause is the exact same in their Lease Agreement then it is as it states.

 

If they have exceeded the 1 metre height restriction and not obtained written consent from the Landlord then the Landlord could actually take this as a breach of the lease agreement and could enforce this neighbour to remove this new fence and replace the original fence at the neighbours cost.
 

On the other hand the Landlord may be happy with the new fence as it has cost them nothing irrespective of the above clause

 

Yes, very late as he's pretty much finished.  All our leases are the same, the wording is from my copy and is exact.

 

We might have a saving grace though (I probably should have mentioned this), our landlord is a management company with all of us owning a share.  If I can get enough support, could we vote to allow the fence despite the lease term?  Would it have to be unanimous to have everyone accept the breach?  I've talked with the director regarding pets in the past and he stated that to allow pets in contravention of the lease would put the landlord in breach of all the other leases and it was easier long term to enforce the covenant than to not.  I'm not entirely sure that our man has paid his service charge either, well he claims he hasn't on grounds of poverty.  Although, if he has money for fences yet cannot afford the service charge... it is not looking favourable for peace.

 

I think we're OK on the planning wild card, just read through that.  I think I might go look at holidays just in case.

[Ethel Street]

In all you've posted @cosmic88what would be getting me going if I were you is that this person isn't paying his service charge pleading "poverty". Which means the rest of you are paying his servcie charge for him....

[cosmic88]

@Ethel StreetYes, I tend to agree but I'm hopeful that he is just being a lad and saying it to be outrageous or something.  At the end of the day it will only delay the inevitable as it is in the lease and must be paid at some point.  I'm just trying to play devil's advocate at the moment, I don't understand him sometimes.  A couple of the tenants who have experienced the bad temper would revel in glory at getting the fence pulled down... I'm keeping as quiet as a mouse.

Edited July 2, 2021 by cosmic88

[stu007]

Hi

 

You mention in post#5 your chat with the Director and they mentioned a covenant if there is a covenant in place for these properties what does the covenant say as that changes things and is this Covenant mentioned in any clause in your Lease Agreements?

 

You also mention the Landlord is a Management Company with you alll owning a share and whether you could vote to allow the fence.

 

As you hold a share whe do not have the information on what that entitles you to so that question would be difficult to answer.

 

Do you have a Residents Association set up for Lease Holders at all? 

 

If not have you and the other Lease Holders considered setting one up?

 

Couples of links:

 

How do I form a residents association? - The Leasehold Advisory Service

WWW.LEASE-ADVICE.ORG

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The Federation of Private Residents’ Associations (FPRA) provide guidance on their website as to how to form a residents’ association. They...

 

 

The Federation of Private Residents' Associations

WWW.FPRA.ORG.UK

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The Federation of Private Residents' Associations are a not-for-profit lease advice residential leaseholders, tenants’ , residents’ associations, and RMCs

 

 

[cosmic88]

20 hours ago, stu007 said:

You mention in post#5 your chat with the Director and they mentioned a covenant if there is a covenant in place for these properties what does the covenant say as that changes things and is this Covenant mentioned in any clause in your Lease Agreements?

 

You also mention the Landlord is a Management Company with you alll owning a share and whether you could vote to allow the fence.

 

As you hold a share whe do not have the information on what that entitles you to so that question would be difficult to answer.

 

Do you have a Residents Association set up for Lease Holders at all? 

 

If not have you and the other Lease Holders considered setting one up?

 

 

Hi Stu, thank you for your reply.  I've not got files on me right now but I'll try to answer without:

 

I'm not sure if I'm using the terms correctly, the leases explicitly state we are 'not to have or knowingly permit pets (animals, birds and reptiles - it is a list) on the Premises'.  The director/landlord mentioned a high court case from last year (apologies as I can not remember the name) and said it looked like if we gave permission for pets then the company would possibly breech all leases.

 

We were given paperwork with voting rights in it that came with lease.  I will take a look as it might have the answers thanks for jogging my memory.

 

I thought that we were some kind of residents association.  We all have an equal share and one of us is the director and does the accounts and pays the bills.  The director is heartless and the covenants will be followed, that and our neighbour is very headstrong and this could end up in court and cost a fortune really.  I'll put forwards the residents association to neighbours if anyone agrees on that.

 

Thankyou

[stu007]

Hi

 

I wonder from your last post and specifically your last paragraph if you have Right to Manage in place (I may be wrong as I don't fully know the setup of you leases/Management Company).

 

Have a wee look at this link:

 

Leasehold property: Right to Manage and management disputes - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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Leasehold property - leasehold disputes, buying the freehold, service charges, lease extensions and Right to Manage