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    • Thank you for that "read me", It's a lot to digest, lots of legal procedure. There was one thing that I was going to mention to you,  but in one of the conversations in that thread it was mentioned that there may be spies on the Forum,  this is something that I've read quite some time ago in a previous thread. What I had in mind was to wait for the thirty days after their reply to my CCA request and then send the unenforceable letter. I was hoping that an absence of signature could be the Silver Bullet but it seems that there are lot of layers to peel on this Onion.  
    • love the extra £1000 charge for confidentialy there BF   Also OP even if they don't offer OOC it doesn't mean your claim isn't good. I had 3 against EVRi that were heard over the last 3 weeks. They sent me emails asking me to discontinue as I wouldn't win. Went infront of a judge and won all 3.    Just remember the law is on your side. The judges will be aware of this.   Where you can its important to try to point out at the hearing the specific part of the contract they breached. I found this was very helpful and the Judge made reference to it when they gave their judgements and it seemed this was pretty important as once you have identified a specific breach the matter turns straight to liability. From there its a case of pointing out the unlawfullness of their insurance and then that should be it.
    • I know dx and thanks again for yours and others help. I was 99.999% certain last payment was over six years ago if not longer.  👍
    • Paragraph 23 – "standard industry practice" – put this in bold type. They are stupid to rely on this and we might as well carry on emphasising how stupid they are. I wonder why they could even have begun to think some kind of compelling argument – "the other boys do it so I do it as well…" Same with paragraph 26   Paragraph 45 – The Defendants have so far been unable to produce any judgements at any level which disagree with the three judgements…  …court, but I would respectfully request…   Just the few amendments above – and I think it's fine. I think you should stick to the format that you are using. This has been used lots of times and has even been applauded by judges for being meticulous and clear. You aren't a professional. Nobody is expecting professional standards and although it's important that you understand exactly what you are doing – you don't really want to come over to the judge that you have done this kind of thing before. As a litigant in person you get a certain licence/leeway from judges and that is helpful to you – especially if you are facing a professional advocate. The way this is laid out is far clearer than the mess that you will get from EVRi. Quite frankly they undermine their own credibility by trying to say that they should win simply because it is "standard industry practice". It wouldn't at all surprise me if EVRi make you a last moment offer of the entire value of your claim partly to avoid judgement and also partly to avoid the embarrassment of having this kind of rubbish exposed in court. If they do happen to do that, then you should make sure that they pay everything. If they suddenly make you an out-of-court offer and this means that they are worried that they are going to lose and so you must make sure that you get every penny – interest, costs – everything you claimed. Finally, if they do make you an out-of-court offer they will try to sign you up to a confidentiality agreement. The answer to that is absolutely – No. It's not part of the claim and if they want to settle then they settle the claim as it stands and don't try add anything on. If they want confidentiality then that will cost an extra £1000. If they don't like it then they can go do the other thing. Once you have made the amendments suggested above – it should be the final version. court,. I don't think we are going to make any more changes. Your next job good to make sure that you are completely familiar with it all. That you understand the arguments. Have you made a court familiarisation visit?
    • just type no need to keep hitting quote... as has already been said, they use their own criteria. if a person is not stated as linked to you on your file then no cant hurt you. not all creditors use every CRA provider, there are only 3 main credit file providers mind, the rest are just 3rd party data sharers. if you already have revolving credit on your file there is no need to apply for anything just 'because' you need to show you can handle money. if you have bank account(s) and a mortgage which you are servicing (paying) then nothing more can improve your score, despite what these 'scam' sites claiml  its all a CON!!  
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New Role & Pay Rise - New Contract?


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Hi,

 

I have been employed full time at the company 3 years. I was informed by email at the end of May I was to start a new role beginning July. The job title and salary were stated and everything else was to be confirmed in writing mid-June. A couple of emails later it transpired there would also be a new contract..

 

I am of the understanding a new contract does not have to be issued for a change in role or pay.

 

I have been given the job description and terms this week.

 

The new paperwork is headed 'Statement of main terms of employment' it isn't as detailed, at 2.5 pages length, as my original paperwork which has a 1 page summary of terms followed by a full contract of 9 pages. The new paperwork goes on to say 'This statement together with the Employee Handbook forms part of your contract of employment, except where the contrary is expressly stated and sets out particulars of the main terms on which [my employer & their address] employs [me]'.

 

- Is this actually a new contract or a change to the original?

- I've not been informed why this is being issued, just suggested it's part and parcel of the role & rise

- Should I be informed of what has actually been changed instead of having to figure it out myself?

- I've never seen a company handbook - would it be a good idea to look at one now?

- I don't know when the terms are supposed to take effect?

- My new salary isn't stated but it's in the email at the end of May it's from the beginning of July and I've been advised verbally I'll be paid it?

 

My old contract says changes can be made to any of my terms and conditions of employment, being informed of any such changes in writing - the changes taking effect from the date of notice. Significant changes will be notified not less than one month in advance.

 

The main change I can see, which I'm not happy about - is that to summarise - under my old contract I work 37.5 hours. Overtime including weekends and bank holidays may be required but under mutual agreement and paid at 1.5x. Under the new contract I work the same 37.5 hours BUT it says they may be adjusted to suit the needs of the company, I may be required to work additional hours as necessitated by the needs of the company and as a manager, overtime is not paid for hours outside of those contracted.

 

Would this class as significant changes? Obviously my hours are not going to decrease for the same pay. I work my contractual hours, very hard and projects are completed on time. I only ever did a couple of hours paid overtime which was a task not part of my role and had to specifically be done outside of working hours. I think a few employees left lately due to having to do unpaid overtime evenings and weekends - albeit they were not managers.

 

Would a good compromise be to ask for time in lieu? for example some time ago I was informed a colleague works many additional hours but they can leave the workplace without notice if there is something they need to go and do? is that the same as time in lieu?

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited by chaoticj
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This isn't a response to all the issues you raise but a comment on two points

 

You are correct that if your contract of employment changes the employer isn't required to issue a completley new contract. Written confirmation of the changes is sufficient.

 

If the employer deems what's in a staff handbook to be part of your contract of emplyment then yes it must be made available to you. They don't have to give a printed copy though. Making it available on an internal intranet site is OK. Ask HR how you access it.

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6 minutes ago, Ethel Street said:

This isn't a response to all the issues you raise but a comment on two points

 

You are correct that if your contract of employment changes the employer isn't required to issue a completley new contract. Written confirmation of the changes is sufficient.

 

If the employer deems what's in a staff handbook to be part of your contract of emplyment then yes it must be made available to you. They don't have to give a printed copy though. Making it available on an internal intranet site is OK. Ask HR how you access it.

 

Hi Ethel Street,

 

Thanks - so what they have given me is essentially written confirmation of the changes to the original contract? A lot of it is the same though or perhaps the same but worded a little differently?

 

Presumably the handbook is going to say what certain company policies are so I would be best to make myself aware of it all.

 

chaoticj

Edited by chaoticj
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Been through similar contract changes. Where company significantly updates employment contract, they issue a new contract document, rather than an addendum to the previous contract.

 

The company should have been open and honest telling you that overtime terms were being withdrawn.  For the Bank I worked for, they paid a one off lump sum of money to recognise that my new terms of employment now included working later into evenings and Saturdays, when previously I would have been paid overtime rates for hours outside of contract. I was given the option of not signing new contract, but it was made clear that pay rises and opportunities for old contract employees would be minimal. And that if I was ever offered promotion, I would have to accept new contract. 

 

What you will find under your new contract is that you will be expected to work additional hours as required and there are no rights to have time off using any additional hours credit you have built up. And the company are pretty unlikely to confirm any such rights in writing. Instead they will tell you to speak to your line manager and colleagues, to ensure business needs are always covered,  before any flexibility with hours.  They will talk about work/life balance, but if your company is always busy or always having staff off work for whatever reason, you will be working 60 hours a week, with it being difficult to take time off using any additional hours credit.

 

Not saying this is right what employers are doing. Suggest that you always record your hours fully every day and you do speak to your line manager about your work hours on a regular basis.

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Hi unclebulgaria67,

 

So would this be classed as a 'reasonable change' as per my original contract or a 'significant change'? Let's say I accept and further down the line they decide they want me to work longer hours, or unpaid overtime which to use your example results in a 60 hour week - seems quite significant to me?

 

Spoke to my line manager today and asked some questions:

 

- What is the reason for change in terms?
The HR company has issued this - everyone has had it - a standard statement - it's mandatory.

- What is being changed?

No change - just your job title and pay.

 

- When does this come into effect from?

Today, when you sign it - you don't get the extra pay until you do.

(Then I say I was advised the job title and pay would be with effect from July, which was long before I had any job description or contract change to look at)

 

- I've read it and there are two points here which I'm not too keen on.. will my working hours change? is there an expectation of unpaid overtime?

No
(Then I ask if we can remove this part) No we can't take it out

(Then I ask if I can have time in lieu instead) No we can't do that, it's the same for everyone

 

Cue a discussion about some of my concerns and thoughts.. where it's mentioned 'if someone doesn't like it there are other options out there' which I take to mean they would look to dismiss me?

 

Then I'm really complemented, flattered about the quality of my work etc. and that I won't be asked to do more than I currently do.. as an agreement between the two of us?

 

Thoughts? I'm currently thinking I'm a bit forced into accepting it.. but get seriously looking elsewhere as I feel the pay even with the increase is well below what I could be earning and it's a bit of a toxic environment.

 

Regards,

chaoticj

 

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If they are removing overtime pay terms and making changes which you feel are significant, then I suggest that you discuss with Union if you are a member or contact ACAS. 

 

WWW.ACAS.ORG.UK

 

If the new contract is  paying you a higher salary in lieu of the changes, if you did not accept the new contract, you would remain on the previous salary level and old contract terms.

 

 

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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Is your old job still available? You can accept the new job, go back to your old one or, if it isn't there, ask to be made redundant.

 

Never assume anyone on the internet is who they say they are. Only rely on advice from insured professionals you have paid for!

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Hi,

 

After thinking about this I decided I wasn't happy with the contract changes. Verbal agreements can't be relied upon and if I change manager they could enforce the terms.

 

So I emailed my manager saying further to our discussion where they said there would be no changes to my contract, working hours or requirement to do unpaid overtime could they please reply and confirm this. Upon which I'd be happy to sign the contract.

 

It's been a couple of days and no reply.. how would you proceed?

 

Many thanks.

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

So just to update.. I did chase this up with my manager as I hadn't heard anything for a couple of weeks and was concerned I could be seen after.. say a month as deemed to be working under the contract amendments. The response was them reiterating that the contract amendments were as presented and couldn't be changed, the same for everyone and saying we could have a meeting about the 'alternatives' if need be.

 

Anyway I decided to stick to my guns and reiterate my own position which was that I wanted to come to a compromise that was acceptable for both parties. I'd be happy to sign if my manager could put in writing I wouldn't be held to compulsory unpaid overtime or have my hours changed. I was not expecting to be paid for overtime as per current contract and if some unpaid overtime was required as long as it wasn't due to say a colleague leaving something until the last minute then obviously as a manger I would do it. Otherwise could we have the meeting to discuss the 'alternatives'.

 

Surprisingly my manager then had a meeting with me where they instantly agreed with everything I had said/previously said, put in writing I wouldn't be held to compulsory unpaid overtime or have my hours changed, signing and dating this, my increased salary would be paid that month and going over a few other points they knew I'd been a bit unhappy about as well as my general well being.

 

What I then did was take a copy of said document and attach the original to the copy of the contract amendments I then signed and returned to them, making a note that there was an attached addendum.

 

Regards,

chaoticj

Edited by chaoticj
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