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Western Circle Claimform - old PDL


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First of all, thanks for any help advised you offer, it'll be gratefully received.

 

I've gotten a county court claim from Western Circle (payday loan company) for an old debt (not statutory barred) and still 3 years to go before it is.

 

The county court claim is definitely genuine as it has claim number, password etc and I've logged in to moneyclaim.gov and it pulled the details.  I've acknowledged the claim and said I’ll defend it.

 

Is the claim the company are making against me my debt? Possibly. A few years ago personal circumstances changed and I fell off the wagon a bit and ended up taking multiple payday loans out. So this could be one of them.  Some other details which may be very relevant.

 

1) Western Circle haven't sold the loan on.

 

2) It was filled in Northampton County Court.

 

3) It's for £870 which consists of £400 original loan, £400 interest which is the maximum they can charge apparently and £70 costs for the court fees

 

4) the court papers they don't mention any supporting documentation they have.  Just that I entered in to a loan and didn't pay and despite repeated contact from them, I've still not paid.

 

5) I don't recall ever receiving a default notice but there is one on my credit report.

 

6) This bit I feel is quite important.  About 2 months ago, I received a letter before action (they called it a "letter of claim") through the post. For the most part it looked genuine.  That is it had a basic statement of the loan, original interest which would have been occurred etc, a reply form which had options for me to either agree the debt, dispute it etc and finally - a basic financial statement form for me to fill in if I wanted to make a offer to pay over time, however.

 

The info on how to respond to the letter of claim had a very clear instructions saying - "you only have 30 days from the date at the top of the letter from the business to send back the reply form".  likewise the pre-action protocols state the letter should be clearly dated.  There were absolutely no dates on the accompanying letter, absolutely none. Because of this, I assumed it was just a standard threat and ignored it.  Yes that was probably very stupid of me.

 

Obviously the business concerned were serious, and have now followed up with the CCJ claim.

 

Now before I get to my questions, I'd like to make something clear. I'm not trying to avoid this debt if it is mine (I honestly can't remember as I had fallen off the wagon back then and done some stupid things.  But I also know that because it's now at court stage, if I admit responsibility and make an offer to pay, the CCJ will be granted.  I also know that even though I work, I cannot afford to pay the whole thing off in 30 days after judgement to stop it appearing on my credit file where it would then sit for 6 years.

 

So at best I'm wondering about the following simply to get it back to the pre court protocol stage where I can then (if they prove it's mine) make an offer and stay away from CCJ(s)

 

Finally - my questions (and thanks for reading this far).

 

1) Could the fact the letter before claim wasn’t right be a valid part of my defence?

 

2) Should I ask Western Circle for documents, if so, what should I ask for?

 

3) Finally in your opinion, if Western Circle haven’t followed pre action protocol correctly and that I could / can use that as part of the defense. What will happen to their CCJ claim. Struck out as in I win or will it just get stayed so they can send a correct letter before claim?

 

Kind regards

 

Me.

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Welcome to the forum.

 

If you would read the following link which explains the process and what to send on receipt of a court claim. Also please copy the Q,s with your responses and post back here for further advice on how to proceed.

 

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks Andy,

 

Name of the Claimant ? Western Circle LTD

 

Date of issue – 11th June.  It arrived 16th Of June.  I know that because I went away on the evening of the 15th June returning home on the 22nd. The letter wasn't here before I left but was when I returned.  I acknowledged service online on the 23rd June.

 

Date  to acknowledge -  29th June 

 

date to submit defence = 13th July 

 

Particulars of Claim

 

What is the claim for – 

 

1.The claimant is a lender of short-term finance to consumers under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.  

 

2. On 06-02-2019 the parties entered in to an agreement whereby the Defendant borrowed the sum of £400 to be repaid in 2 monthly instalment, at the agreed contractual daily interest rate of 0.78%, capped at 100% of loan value.

 

3. Despite extensive chasing, the Defendant failed to repay their loan in full and interest and costs have been incurred.

 

The Claimant therefor Claims:

 

1. £400 being the amount loaned.

2. £400 being interest up to the date of this claim.

3. £0.00 being amount paid"

 

What is the total value of the claim? £870
 

Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? About 2 months ago, I received a letter before action (they called it a "letter of claim") through the post. For the most part it looked genuine.  That is it had a basic statement of the loan, original interest which would have been occurred etc, a reply form which had options for me to either agree the debt, dispute it etc and finally - a basic financial statement form for me to fill in if I wanted to make a offer to pay over time, however.

 

The info on how to respond to the letter of claim had a very clear instructions saying - "you only have 30 days from the date at the top of the letter from the business to send back the reply form".  likewise the pre-action protocols state the letter should be clearly dated.

 

There were absolutely no dates on the accompanying letter, absolutely none. Because of this, I assumed it was just a standard threat and ignored it.  Yes that was probably very stupid of me.

 

I have kept that letter so still have it.

 

Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No
 

Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? Not applicable.

Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Payday loan
 

When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? First loan would be early 2019 I then would have paid that off an immediately taken another to use to live on.
 

Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? Definitely online.
 

Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? Yes
 

Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Original creditor.
 

Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? Not applicable in this case as original creditor
 

Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not that I'm aware
 

Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? No
 

Why did you cease payments? I had multiple loans with multiple companies at the time and stopped payment to try and sort myself / finances out.
 

What was the date of your last payment? early 2019 I believe.

 

Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No
 

Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No

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  • dx100uk changed the title to Western Circle Claimform - old PDL

pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.
[if mcol is not working return after the w/end or the next day if week time]
.
 register as an individual on the Gov't Gateway Site
 note down your details inc the long gateway number given, you might need it later.
 then log in to the MCOL Website
.
 select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.
.
 then using the details required from the claimform
.
 defend all
 leave jurisdiction unticked
 you DO NOT file a defence at this time
[BUT you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 ]
click thru to the end
confirm and exit MCOL.
..
get a CCA Request running to the claimant

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332502-cca-request-consumer-credit-act-1974-updated-january-2015/

..

Leave the £1 PO unsigned and uncrossed

.

get a CPR  31:14  request running to the solicitors [if one is not listed send to the claimant]
...
.[use our other CPR letter if the claim is for an OD or Telecom Debt]
.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/332546-legal-cpr-3114-request-request-for-information-when-a-claim-has-been-issued/

.

on BOTH type your name ONLY
Do Not sign anything
.
you DO NOT await the return of ANY paperwork 
you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform [1 in the count]

..............


 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...

hows this going?

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi,

 

First my apologies, I forgot to update the thread with what's been going on.

 

As advised, I sent both the CCA and CPR requests off to Western Circle.  Both posted recorded delivery on the 25th June.  

 

Western Circle have responded to my CCA request today.

 

The majority of there reply says  - "The information that you are requesting is available to you via your personal client log-in site. We offer this method for our customers to access their information as this offers direct, swift and secure access to an individual’s personal information, including contracts and statements."

 

To access your personal data, please visit (website url)

 

Alternatively, if you would like the information sent to you via the post, please let me know.
However, we would recommend for your security that you access the information directly."

 

There has so far been no reply to the CPR.

 

What should I do about their CCA reply?

 

Kind regards

 

Me.

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a cca request is legally binding for them to provide the docs ...They will have to disclose anything they intend to rely upon in their witness statement if they progress the claim that far.

 

dont forget to look at loan or pdl claimform threads here on cag and post your proposed defence up here in good time !!!

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks DX,

 

What do I do about their CCA request reply letter.  Write back saying I want the documents in writing?  Or is the fact they have said I can get the docs from their client log in site enough to satisfy a judge they've supplied them?

 

I'll start getting a defence prepped tomorrow.

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you never enter into any pointless letter tennis with a DCA regardless to it being subject to a court claim or not.

they are WELL aware of the CCA and Court rules.

 

get reading up here

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Hi folks,

 

First, can I just double check that even though Western Circle have replied two my CCA request with a letter saying "that I can get the info online" that their response isn't good enough?  Is it a case of I made my request in writing therefor they have to respond with the docs in writing?

 

I'm just a bit nervous of a judge saying that the fact I could potentially go online and get them would be good enough and leave me in the lurch.

 

Regarding the CPR request, still absolutely no response to that.

 

Moving on, here's a copy of my defence so far.  What's your thoughts?

 

"1: I received the claim (claim number redacted) from the Northampton County Court on 11/06/2021

 

2: Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

 

3: This claim appears for a Loan agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

4: The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

 

5. It is denied that Western Circle LTD served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant.

 

6: It is denied that Western Circle LTD served any Letter Before Action on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Letter Before Action was served upon the Defendant.

 

7: On the 25/06/2021 I sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimants statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to Western Circle LTD. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the Agreement and any correspondence which relates to the “extensive chasing” referenced in the Particulars of the claim.

 

8. Western Circle LTD has not sent any of these documents to me.

 

9. On the 25/06/2021 I sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreement to Western Circle LTD pursuant to section 77 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

 

10. The Claimant has failed to comply with s77 (1) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of s77 (4) Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

 

11. Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a money claim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore It is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

 

12. I request the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for me to fully plead my case else the Claim should stand struck out.

 

13. In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimants I will then be in a position to amend my defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

 

Statement of Truth

 

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true."

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I would be searching here as advised and using our std holding/ no paperwork defence

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

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