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Summons issued against Parrcel2Go


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No, as far as I remember, you have to complete the certificate of service and then keep it safe on your file and then you would include it in your court bundle later on.

Have a look on the court services website and you will get more information. Maybe you could post it up here

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  • 2 weeks later...
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No, you are not forced to request judgement. You can simply let it go, let them off the hook, forfeit your money, forfeit the cost you have paid, and go to the pub.

On the other hand, you could request judgement and then when you had the judgement you could instruct County Court bailiffs to go round the and enforce the judgement.

Of course they may then suddenly wake up and apply for set-aside that they would be stupid if they did, but it would be fun.

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If they did make application to set a side you would get your hearing.....a default judgment is far cheaper than a defended judgment...no hearing fee.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Parcel2go  have lodged the following defence. Bankfodder asked earlier if I had it in writing regarding  the courier throwing away one of my lost parcels. I think the defence answers that question. As for my not sending them further particulars of claim...........they had this info in the notice before action.

 

I Chelsea Walton, of The Cube, Coe Street, Bolton, BL3 6BU, say as follows: -

 

1.            I am the Asset Protection Officer, employed by the Defendant. I am duly authorised by the Defendant to make this Defence on their behalf.

 

2.            The facts and matters set out in this statement are within my own knowledge unless otherwise stated, and I believe them to be true. Where I refer to information supplied by others, the source of the information is identified; facts and matters derived from other sources are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.

 

3.            We take orders via our website.

 

 

 

THE DEFENCE

 

4.            Claimant booked and paid for three different orders via the Defendant website, all orders were booked to be collected and delivered to different locations, two orders being within the UK and the third order being an international service, all order were booked with different couriers, however, the Terms and Conditions accepted were the same for all order as these were all booked with the Defendant.

5.            When booking the services with the Defendant the Claimant is required to enter the contents and the value of each item being sent, the Claimant listed these as follows:

             P2G72688831 – UK to UK Order – Parcels:"Set Square" (10x10x10, 0.2kg - £15.00)

             P2G73791621 – UK to UK Order - Parcels:"Gazebo" (125x25x25, 22.7kg - £135.00)

             P2G74330511 – UK to FINLAND Order - Parcels:"camera" (30x27x20, 2.6kg - £30.00)

6.            When entering the order value during the booking process, the Claimant is then provided with a pop-up requesting they protect their goods fully against loss or damage in transit. The pop-up message is read like this:

7.            Example from order P2G73791621 – “Don't get caught without enough protection should the unexpected happen. You can protect your parcel up to the value of £10,000.00

Yes, I would like to protect my £135.00 parcel against loss or damage for £6.75 exc VAT.

No, I'm willing to risk my £135.00 parcel. I'm not worried about potential loss or damage.”

8.            The additional amount to protect your goods differ with each of these orders. Increased protection can be purchased at a rate of 5% of the value of the item.

9.            However, the wording listed above requesting the Claimant protect their goods full is provided the same in each order. Claimant opted for the zero protection on all three orders, meaning these will be sent without protection for loss or damage.

10.          On the final stage of the booking process the Claimant is again provided with another pop-up message which is read as follows (different amounts will be shown for different valued orders):

“You Haven't Fully Protected Your Parcel

To increase the protection to the full value for your order it will only cost you £6.75 exc VAT extra.

1. Amount of Protection

You have not selected any cover for your parcels, even though your item’s declared value is £135.00. We strongly recommend that you have full protection cover in case of loss or damage. Also please note that you are responsible for certifying the true value of the parcel's contents.”

11.          Claimant again chose not to protect each of these parcels and selected the ‘No, I don not want to be protected against loss or damage’ option.

12.          The Claimant then accepted the Terms and Conditions and went on to pay for these orders.

13.          During transit, one parcel (P2G72688861) was confirmed as being damaged and due to health and safety risk this was disposed of, the other two (P2G73791631 and P2G74330511) were deemed as missing after an investigation was conducted.

14.          All three orders had claims on them and all three orders were rejected based on the protection during the booking process, as the zero protection option was accepted all these claims were closed as parcel protection not purchased, a refund of all three orders carriage fees has been processed since the claims were rejected.

15.          Multiple emails were exchanged for all three of these orders and the Claims Department for the Defendant confirmed each time the reason the claims had been rejected. Claimant was not happy with these responses and a Letter Before Court Action was sent and responded too.

16.          In the response from the Claimant they mention that the service booked for the order containing a Gazebo was booked through Parcel Force 48 as they offered standard £100.00 protection and they expect that to be refunded. It would seem there was confusion relating to the order P2G73791631 and so the Defendant replied with the following message:

“ You have mentioned that you asked to buy the Parcelforce 48 service from Parcelforce, if you had booked with them directly you may have been provided with £100.00 cover, however we are not Parcelforce. Parcel2go.com offer a cheaper comparison on all the couriers used however all protection purchased is via Parcel2Go.com we do not claim anything from the courier and any pay outs for claims are based on protection purchased we are self-certified and all the claims paid are based on the protection purchased. The onus is on you to ensure all the booking is correct and you were advised on more than one occasion that you would not be protected unless protection is purchased.”

17.          Prior to selecting the courier service, we also offer all our customer to choose a standard protection service or a zero-protection service, the standard protection offered is £20.00. If the Claimant accepted this as a service the claims would have been settled for the standard amount £20.00, or lesser dependant on the value entered, due to this the Defendant offered a goodwill gesture of £20.00 for all three claims, totalling £60.00, this would have been the maximum they could have claimed if they chose the standard protection service (without fully protecting their items).

18.          Claimant declined this offer and began the court case against the Defendant. As stated in the Claimants Particulars of Claim, no separate detailed particulars were received since the Service of the Claim form.

19.          When booking this order, the Claimant is required to accept the Terms prior to paying, the Claimant agreed to this and in particular the following sections:

 

The Extent of our Liability

 

6.4 We shall only be liable for damage or loss caused to you if it is caused by our negligence, breach of duty or other wrongful act or omission, and only subject to the limitations set out within this clause 6 and clause 7.

 

6.5 We shall not be liable to you under any circumstances for:

 

(a) any direct or indirect loss (including, but not limited to loss of profits, or loss of goodwill); or

 

(b) any other special or indirect losses, costs, damages, or claims which do not arise naturally as a result of our negligence, breach of duty, or other wrongful act or omission.

 

6.6 We shall not be liable to you:

 

(a) under any circumstances where there are any material discrepancies (meaning more than 10% difference) between the declared dimensions and/or weights and the actual dimensions and/or weights;

 

(b) for any damage caused by our negligence, breach of duty, or other wrongful act or omission, which you have, or you have arranged to be, repaired, unless it is agreed by us that the repair work is to be carried out and that a repairer approved by us undertakes this work; or

 

(c) in any circumstances in respect of the items on the Prohibited Items; Damage to Items Protected for Loss Only; or for loss of or damage to the No Protection Items lists, unless otherwise stated by us.

 

The Limitation on the Amount of our Liability

 

6.7 If we are liable to you for any reason, we shall (subject always to clause 7) only be liable to refund to you the cost paid for the Service(s), unless you have purchased Parcel Protection for your Consignment from us.

 

 

 

20.          The Claimant has no real prospect of success as liability is excluded by the Defendant's standard Terms and Conditions which were agreed by the Claimant.

 

21.          The Defendant knows of no other compelling reason why the case or issue should be disposed of at court.

 

22.          The Defendant seeks no costs.

 

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

 

 

Signed: Chelsea Walton

 

Its WAR

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Okay. No surprises. It's predicated completely on the fact that you didn't take out their insurance.

I have to say that it is marginally better drafted than the rubbish that people get from Hermes, but the arguments are basically the same.

Have a look carefully and see what you think and if you want to proceed. At some point you should get directions questionnaire

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I already consider I have a good argument for having contracted with them to buy Parcelforce 48 which has £100 compensation, but they supplied me with a service without the compensation. ie not Parcelforce 48 but something purported to be Parcelforce 48. And they failed to return to sender one parcel which they chose to throw away instead.

 

I expect the camera to Finland might be a weaker point as P2G (will sell you a pointless  insurance) because the item is on their excluded list, so it wouldn't be covered even if I had ought insurance.

 

with a few good arguments to support an hour or so in a virtual court hearing (I guess it might go that way), I reckon I will give a good enough accounting for myself.

 

Happy to have any advise though.

Its WAR

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Okay, can we just go over what has happened here – be it carefully please. Skip the narrative.

You sent three parcels – and they managed to lose two of them! a third one apparently was damaged in some way or the packaging was damaged so they disposed of it because of some danger to health.

Also, you seem to be saying that when you instructed Parcel2go, you instructed them to use Parcelforce – but in fact they used Hermes. Is this correct?

In respect of the pagoda which was disposed of, have you got any photographs of the packaging?

 

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Reads more like a witness statement than defence.....

 

Quote

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

 

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Hi Bankfodder. 

 

The item they disposed of was the 50 year old wooden T square. It was damaged in transit and rejected by the addressee. (No risk to health unless your dad used it to smack the back of your legs in the 70s). I didn't insure it as the item was only worth £15

 

It was a gazebo that was lost.  I selected Parcelforce 48 (from the P2G courier options) and they used Parcelforce 48 as the service, but my contention is the service I received lacked the £100 compensation that comes as standard with PF 48, Therefore P2G  used something purporting to be PF 48 but was something of lesser specification masquerading as PF 48. I didn't take out P2G insurance because I expected PF 48 insurance to cover any loss.

 

The other lost item (to Finland) was a vintage camera (an item on their insurance cover for loss only listing). I didn't take out insurance because the item was only worth £40 and would only have cover for loss.

 

I have no photos of any packaging.

Its WAR

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Is there anything on their website which suggests that if you choose Parcelforce, that it is anything different from the standard Parcelforce service that you might get if you went to them directly?

 

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7 hours ago, Andyorch said:

 Reads more like a witness statement than defence.....

 

Quote

STATEMENT OF TRUTH

 

I believe that the facts stated in this witness statement are true.

 

 

 

 

Yes, I hadn't picked that up. And in any event, it is not the up-to-date statement of truth which also makes it clear of the consequences of making a full statement. To that extent, the statement of truth is invalid.

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I haven't found anything on the P2G website to suggest you get anything different than the standard PF48 service.

 

There is nothing to suggest you are buying a discounted product at the expense of receiving a product with some features excluded.  Neither do they mention that PF48 comes with £100 compensation as standard if you bought direct from Parcelforce  (to find out that, you have to go to the  Parcelforce website).

 

They still offer you the option to buy extra insurance from them even though it is a standard item for the service. But why would you buy extra insurance if the product already has it included?

Its WAR

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Okay will make sure that you have printed out or screenshotted all the available evidence

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  • 3 weeks later...

Make sure that you read up on other people's experience of mediation . If you read about the top dozen or so threads on this sub- forum dealing with Hermes, you will find some very interesting accounts – especially this one

 

You will find that the mediator in some way appears to ally themselves with the defendant because they will attempt to put pressure on you along with the defendant to reduce your claim. You should stand your ground and make it clear that what the defendant has to benefit from this is that they will avoid going to court and they will avoid having a judgement against them.

Read up very carefully and understand your own case and the arguments very clearly. Ask questions here

 

Be bullish about it and explain to the mediator that as far as you are concerned, there is so little money at stake that you are quite happy to go to court because all of your coffees have now been paid and so you have very little to lose one way or the other.

They will try to get you to back down and at least simply to accept your claim without the court fees. Tell them that they have false you to incur the coffees and they are going to pay for it. Tell them that you know that if it goes to a hearing that they are going to have to spend even more money trying to beat you and risk judgement.

Tell them that you are looking forward to going to court and it would only be if your claim is settled in full that you are prepared to back down.

Tell the mediator that you find it is incredible that the defendant is prepared to spend more money on trying to crush you then it would have cost them to settle the claim in the first place.

Tell the mediator that you don't appreciate this kind of bullying – and I suggest that you are also bullish with the mediator and tell the mediator that you consider they are bullying you as well and you don't appreciate that either.

 

One of your strongest points is that the so-called insurance that they require is unfair. Point out that it is absurd that they are expecting the customer to ensure them against their own negligence and their own breaches of contract. Tell the mediator that it is completely unfair and it is an unfair term under the consumer rights act.

Point out to the mediator that you know that under the consumer rights act, you are entitled to invite the judge to make an enquiry as to the fairness or unfairness of these contractual terms and you will be doing that.

Tell the mediator that requiring the customer effectively to pay for the service providers own negligence effectively subverts or nullifies the protections given by the consumer rights act.

Tell the mediator that if it goes to court you will be doing your best to establish that the insurance system is unfair and that will cause a major upset for their entire business plan.

Tell the mediator – the defendant – that if this is what they want to risk then fair enough. Refuse to back down and everybody goes to court – and oh what fun it will be.

Make sure that you have all of this in your mind and in notes and that you tell the mediator in a calm way but an assertive way that this is your position and you will not back down.

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Well I admire your enthusiasm – but don't be too gung ho.

Make sure that everything you say is measured and calm. When you say things to the mediator, be assertive. But don't be bullying. On the other hand, don't give way. The calmer you are about it then the more credible you will appear

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The Mediation was over after 3 phone calls. The first call explained the mediator was not legally trained and she explained the process. She asked what the case was about. I explained  the manner of the losses and she ended the call. It was very brief and did not allow for presenting my argument.

 

The second call was to explain to me how Parcel2Go saw the position which mainly dealt with the fact I chose not to buy insurance. But they were prepared to settle £20 per parcel and had previously refunded my postage.  I discussed the item that was thrown away and she seemed to quite agree with me.

 

Then the gazebo sent using Parcelforce 48, I  explained the defendants did not say anywhere on their website  that the service I selected would not come with the standard features and benefits  that automatically come with that service. I explained I could not go to the Post Office and buy Parcelforce 48 over the counter and then ask the Post Office if  I could  buy the service and pay less, if they would  exclude the insurance component........... because then I would not be buying Parcelforce 48.

 

If there is a product that gave me that service it would be called something else. It would be a different product and not the one I selected from the defendants.  But that is what the defendants sold me (a product that comes with standard compensation but which they had sold  to me without telling me they had removed the automatic compensation feature of the product).

 

 I explained that along with the nature of the losses (one being thrown away, the other being lost but the compensation being removed, the other item just being lost in the post),  the principle remains, the defendant being obliged to conduct their business in accordance with statutory law and they cannot create clauses in a contract which seek to enable them to bypass the law and reduce or remove their liability to it.

 

They cannot insist I pay extra money to them, and only  if I do pay,   will they then apply statutory law. I tried to explain their responsibility to exercise reasonable skill and care etc........ But now I was talking over her interrupting me. She wanted to explain it was not her job to hear or present the legal arguments to he defendant, that was the courts job. She was there to to mediate the price.

 

As I had agreed to Mediation and the form asked me if I was willing to negotiate the price, it was this that  was her part of her job, to mediate the price. I therefore explained I was prepared to offer the defendants  a mediated offer of not having me present the case to the court and expose them to judgement and further fees in exchange for them settling the claim in full.

 

She said that if I was not willing to offer a lower price, then I was not entering the mediation correctly. I explained I was offering them a substantial negotiated offer by removing the cost and risk of a hearing in exchange for them paying the full amount claimed. She argued with me that I should simply be willing to reduce the price. I explained that price was only one element of the negotiation but not the important one. A negotiation would normally cover price, size, quantity, weight and colour. You cant just limit a negotiation to just the price. 

 

She explained she can only go back to the defendants with my offer of a reduced  price and that she gathered I was not prepared to reduce, and that mediation was not going to be an acceptable way ahead unless I was prepared to reduce the price. I agreed mediation might not work if price was the only factor she could work with.  I was not prepared to offer a reduced price but was prepared to drop the case if they paid in full. She would phone the defendants and tell them.

 

The third call was to let me know my claim was for £180 plus postage and court fees. They had already refunded my postage  some time ago and were still prepared to settle £20 per parcel plus £25 issue fee but were not going to offer more. (in other words, they were not budging from their pre summons position).  As I  had told her previously, I was not reducing the price, the mediation had failed and the case must now go to court. 

 

That was it. It was very straight forward. I was surprised they refused to settle. But now (having spent hours and hours on this) much prefer to actually present the case in court. That will be an exciting couple of hours and well worth the investment.

 

 

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Its WAR

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Yes, rather surprising – but well done on standing your ground.

Keep on reading around. I think that your most important argument is about the unfairness and the absurdity of you being required to ensure against their own negligence.

Also, I agree that it is ridiculous that they should be entitled to throw the item away and at least not to offer you an opportunity to have it back and to give you photographs of the damage.

If they are reserving the right to throw an item away then that is a recipe for hiding a huge number of sins.

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  • 7 months later...

Update on a locked thread. 

 

Hearing in 4 weeks.

 

Briefly P2G lost 3 parcels.

1. I sent a gazebo and  asked them to use Royal Mail 48 (which automatically comes with £100 compensation) but which P2G sold me without the compensation.

2. I sent a vintage wooden T Square, which they broke and threw away.

3. I sent a vintage camera to Finland which they lost.

Total claims £180

All claims were rejected.

 

So far, I might not be able to attend the hearing (which is a zoom meeting or similar) as I should be in S Ireland (depends on lockdown restrictions) and may not be able to get service if I go. I can request a new date for £100 court fee (Defendants are happy with this). Or I could discontinue the claim and start a new one but risk being required to pay their legal costs to date? I guess if I issue a new claim I could write a stronger witness statement to include Contra Proferentem regarding the Gazebo and Conversion for the T Square. Given the new arguments, they might decide to settle if they consider the case  will be harder for them to defend.  Or maybe I should wait until much closer the hearing date (when I know for certain whether  I can travel) and if I can't I can then attend the hearing and no one is any the wiser. Or maybe I just write a detailed presentation and just let the hearing go ahead without me? Or maybe I just risk it and try to get to join the hearing from S Ireland.

I really can't decide for the best. Ideas greatfully received.

Its WAR

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Please stick to your existing said. If it's not then you can ask us to unlock it.

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The problem with Claim 1 is that Parcel2Go don't list Royal Mail 48 on their site that I can see (and I'm a large volume user). 

Also, parcel brokers are under no obligation to offer the same level of compensation as the courier directly - their deal with the courier will have different terms, and this will include cover for lost or broken items.

You can't rely on Royal Mail's offering of compensation for a product you didn't buy from them. 

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posts copied over 

try posting here now it's war.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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