Big Motoring World/Black Horse Finance - refusing to honour statutory rights ***SETTLED**

[BankFodder]

You should certainly take pictures of the vehicle as it is being taken away and if you can get pictures of it on the recovery truck so much the better.

In terms of negative postings online, they may well have seen this thread. They are not entitled to impose conditions of any sort. The consumer rights act is quite clear. You are entitled to a refund and also you would be entitled to recover all of your ancillary losses.

If I were you I would refuse to sign anything and if they cause any trouble about the refund then we will go after the finance company.

If they refer to this thread then you can tell them that the more they cause trouble, the more that people will get to know about it.

[Karalius]

Thank you. Makes perfect sense. I had just taken the pictures and video of the car inside/out and will take some more when its on the recovery truck. 

 

I will hand them over both car keys that came when I purchased along with the V5 log book. I won't sign anything if they ask me.

 

Just quick one - I had initially purchased GAP insurance alongside the car. It says on the paper I have 30 days to cancel it. I assume I need to get this done, or will this be part of the finance step as it is them who issued the finance for it.

 

Thanks BankFodder, your help means a lot! I do very much appreciate it! 

[BankFodder]

Yes. Cancel everything

[BankFodder]

And by the way, don't expect it all to be straightforward. The fact that they are already ask you to sign agreements and making veiled threats in respect of social media references indicates that these people are not straight dealing.
You may still find yourself in conflict with them but of course we will support you all the way.

If they are reading the thread, they ought to understand that they are taking on some serious players

[BazzaS]

On 14/06/2021 at 18:10, Karalius said:

Well they have the formal phone complaint logged which is good. I have tried couple different apps, but it seems that apple is blocking the recordings and I am unable to make recordings.

“Tape-a-call” still working for me on iPhone / iOS.

Your mobile network provider will need to support conference calling.

How to make a conference call from your iPhone

SUPPORT.APPLE.COM

---

If your network operator supports it, you can set up a conference call on your iPhone with up to five people.

 

If you find you lose the ability to generate keypad tones [e.g. for “Press 1 for Sales, 2 for Support” etc.) : turn off “4G Voice / Data” for the duration of the call(s) ]

[Karalius]

Hi,

 

Just an update that the vehicle has been collected last night on the trailer. I got all pictures before and whilst it was on the trailer. Handed both keys over and the V5 document.

 

Awaiting to hear what they have to say now.

 

Thanks! 

[BankFodder]

Okay you now need to take steps to divest yourself of the ownership with DVLA.

You don't want the vehicle registered in your name and maybe being left to attract some parking penalty or some other road traffic offence penalty and then having to deal with threats et cetera.

 

[BankFodder]

You should also confirm with the finance company that it has been collected and that you are now no longer in possession and you are now no longer the owner and that DVLA have been informed and you now want them to sort out the finance reimbursement.

Remind them that you have already filed a complaint on this issue and that time has already running for the matter to be referred to the financial ombudsman service.

You can also point out that they have a duty under the COBS – conduct of business regulations to treat you fairly and so far you haven't noticed that they have complied with this statutory duty

[Karalius]

Ok. How would I go about divesting myself from the ownership with DVLA? 

Is the below ok to send to finance company?

 

Dear Sir/Mdm 

 

This is to confirm that vehicle registration number ......has now been collected by Big Motoring World. I am no longer in the possession of the vehicle and I am no longer the owner. DVLA have been informed.

 

I request for the finance reimbursement to be followed through.

 

I have already filed a complaint on this matter and the time is already running for the matter to be referred to the financial ombudsman service.

 

As you know you have a duty under COBS - conduct of business regulations to treat me fairly and so far I haven't noticed that you complied with this statutory duty.

 

Best wishes

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid I don't know the intricacies of resigning your ownership of the vehicle. Maybe somebody else can help. Maybe you could telephone DVLA and ask them.

Maybe there was part of the V5 that you should have kept in order to transfer ownership back to the garage

[Karalius]

Morning, hope weekend was nice!

 

I just had a reply back from BMW. What would be wise next step to do as per below email? I have left both car keys and V5 documents in the car. Not sure why they are asking for them.

 

“Good Morning,

Thank you for your patience whilst we have been looking into this for you.

I can confirm the finance company have accepted a return of advance of your finance therefore we would look to accept rejection of your vehicle, we would request that a settlement agreement is signed prior to the refund being processed. 

Can you please confirm where all of the documentation is for the vehicle this will include the logbook and any additional keys you have for the vehicle?

Kind Regards”

[dx100uk]

as for the V5C

you dont give them the whole thing!!

 

read section 12 below carefully

 

 

 

V5C section 12.pdf

[BankFodder]

I would write to them and tell them that the refund is unconditional and doesn't depend on any settlement agreement.
Tell them that however, in order to try and help them you are prepared to look at their proposed settlement agreement and sign it if it is acceptable to you.

However, they are obliged by Statute to process the refund, to do it as soon as possible and there is no provision in the statute for any conditions or settlement agreement.

Warn them that if the settlement agreement is not acceptable to you then you will not sign it and if they make any trouble then you will let it be decided by the County Court.

Send a copy to the finance company

[Karalius]

Thank you. I will write the letter once I get home from work today.

 

DX - I unfortunately gave the whole V5 log book along with both keys  

[BankFodder]

On 17/06/2021 at 11:49, BankFodder said:

Maybe you could telephone DVLA and ask them.

Maybe there was part of the V5 that you should have kept in order to transfer ownership back to the garage

 

You didn't follow any of this advice then

[Karalius]

I did, but I didn’t have a chance to call them until today. DVLA told me that I would need to keep a whole V5 document and only hand the part 4 of the document where I am selling or trading with motor trader.

 

The V5 was already with the car on collection prior to this conversation that we had  

[BankFodder]

Well you had better contact DVLA and find out what you need to do to transfer ownership back to the garage. You shouldn't trust the garage to do it themselves although if there is a settlement agreement to sign then we will make sure that a provision regarding transfer of ownership is included

[Karalius]

Thank you I am onto DVLA to see what they advise me. How would I know to whom do I need to transfer the registration to though? 

[BankFodder]

To the dealer

[Karalius]

Hi there,

 

I have received the settlement agreement from BMW. Can you please help me look into if this sounds ok to sign?

 

There are few things that I am not really happy about.

PARTIES

Point (1) - My name was spelled incorrectly.

Point (B) - It does not state of me reporting an issue with the turbo that has failed.

Point 1.4 - I do not understand what this is about? The vehicle has been collected and V5 + keys left inside + 1 key with the recovery truck driver.

 

If there is anything that could be advised, can you please let me know? 

 

Thank you!!

 

 

 

[BankFodder]

Well as you haven't posted up the agreement, I'm not sure how you expect us to be able to comment on it.

[Karalius]

Whoops, I'm very sorry!

1Settlement_Agreement.pdf

[BankFodder]

I've started have a brief look at the agreement and on a first reading, I find it totally unacceptable.
Apart from anything else,

Quote

(2)

(C) On 11/06/2021 the customer contacted to the supplier to advise that he will be returning the vehicle under the agreed 14 day return period.

You are not returning under an agreed 14 day return period. You are returning it because you are exercising your right to reject under the consumer rights act. There should be no doubt about this and there should be nothing in any agreement which states otherwise.

Quote

1. SETTLEMENT PAYMENT
1.1. The Supplier will pay to the Customer £3000 in full and final settlement in respect of all claims that the Customer may have against the Supplier both now and in the future in relation to all matters and this particular matter will be deemed concluded. (Settlement Payment). The contract will be considered rescinded and the vehicle will be retained by the supplier.

 

I don't know £3000 is your actual loss or there are other matters take into consideration but the agreement should make it very clear that you are going to be reimbursed all losses. Not a fixed sum.

 

Quote

1.2. The Settlement Payment will be paid to the Customer within 14 days of completion of terms set out in this agreement and subject to return of the vehicle, keys and supporting documentation to Snodland service centre.

 

This agreement is attempting to say that the reimbursement is conditional – and whilst it would certainly be conditional on the recovery by the dealer of the vehicle, no other conditions are acceptable.
The right to reject is unequivocal and unconditional.

Quote

1.3. The customer agrees that any derogatory or disparaging remarks about the repairer, or any of its officers or employees that have been made on any website or social media by himself or any party representing him will be removed prior to the above settlement being paid.

 

Once again, the right to reject is something that the dealer is obliged to accept unconditionally. But in particular, this is a piece of censorship that has nothing to do with the transaction and it is wholly unacceptable.

Quote

1.4. The customer agrees to pay the sum of £250 to the supplier, until the vehicle can be returned. The supplier will aim to process the £250 refund within 28 days of receipt of the vehicle V5.

I have no idea what this is about. You are agreeing to pay them £250 as a sort of deposit against the return of the vehicle??? This makes no sense to me at all. It's probably completely unacceptable. It sounds like some kind of condition to me – but then I don't really understand what they are going on about.

Quote

2. WAIVER
2.1. The terms of this agreement are offered by the Supplier without any admission of liability and are in full and final settlement of all and any claims or rights of action that the Customer has or may have arising out of his contract with the repairer whether under common law, contract, statute or otherwise, whether or not such claims are, or could be, known to the 2 parties or in their contemplation at the date of this agreement in any jurisdiction and including, but not limited to, the claims specified in Schedule 1 (each of which is intimated and waived) but excluding any claims by the Claimant to enforce this agreement.

Another condition which they are apparently attempting to apply to your exercise of your right to reject under the 2015 Act.
I don't know who drafted the stuff or who even thought it up – it's a load of BS. They have a duty to refund you and to collect the vehicle.
End of story.

Quote

4. CONFIDENTIALITY
4.1. The Customer and the Supplier agree that the circumstances leading up to, and the terms of this Agreement, will remain confidential between the parties, except where disclosure is to HM Revenue & Customs; their professional advisers; or is required by law. Further disclosure is not to be made without the written consent of the other party.
4.2. The Customer agrees not to make derogatory or disparaging remarks about the repairer, or any of its officers or employees and will not report this matter on any social media or website whatsoever.

Somebody is getting beyond themselves here.
They're not entitled to require confidentiality as a condition. They're not entitled to fetter you in respect of remarks that you might make about them – as long as the remarks you make are lawful – and that wouldn't need to be covered by a confidentiality agreement anyway.

 

Quote

5. GOVERNING LAW
5.1. This agreement and any dispute or claim arising out of or in connection with it or its subject matter or formation (including non-contractual disputes or claims) shall be governed by and construed in accordance with the law of England and Wales.

Very interesting that finally they want to talk about the governing law.
The governing law is the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and pretty well the entire contents of this proposed agreement is intended to disenfranchise you of those rights and the benefit of that law.

 

They don't then to talk about a schedule – but I don't see any schedule which has been attached to the documents you have uploaded.

Where is the car now?


 

[Karalius]

Very nice layout and explanations. I agree with your logic. 
 

Car is with BMW. I assume at their garage. I have called them Friday and said they would call me back. I then received the email with settlement agreement.

 

I lost really my insurance premium as I cancelled, but I’m willing to write that off to make it easier? 

 

What shall I be doing now? 

[BankFodder]

Also, I've just had a thought – in their agreement they referred to a 14 day cooling off period. Is that part of their terms and conditions that there is a cooling off period?

If so, please could you post a link so that we can see and understand the wording.

 

Can we just clarify – was this car mainly bought on finance with a loan – or on hire purchase?