HMRC asking me to repay Fast Tax Rebates Ltd scam rebate

[dixon2094]

Hi,

 

I've sent 5 emails so far, each replying to myself, explaining the whole situation, this CAG forum, my ICO response, MCOL/Judgment/Warrant progress, the BBC programme, LITRG post, etc.

 

My latest email was the Warrant update, with details of the reference number, and warrant number, etc.

 

And i've not yet been given a direct contact at NP - just the officer I spoke to on the phone said he'd chase to see who it is. They they'll email/ring me.

 

But as mentioned above, I do have a direct reference number for NP now, which I included the AF reference in the message, so they're all linked. I can always ring up using the NP reference if I still don't hear.

Edited December 3, 2021 by dixon2094

[slick132]

Hi Dixon,

 

If you don't mind, I'm ignoring the CCJ for the moment.

 

I'm more interested in what you last said to the police about their failure to investigate the fraud against you commited by FTR Ltd and O'Hara.

 

If you don't want to post it on-thread, send it to me by PM.

[dixon2094]

Hi,

 

I haven't said anything like that to them - from what I've received, or lack of a reply in this case, they haven't explicitly told me they have refused to investigate it.

 

AF have passed it to the Northumbria Police, I just haven't heard from them yet. They haven't declined to investigate as far as I am aware, so I would presume it's still ongoing/about to start?

 

I'm going to chase up the police from when I called last week as I've not heard anything. At least this time, I can say i've called once and was told I'd hear back, etc, and I even have a direct NP reference this time.

 

Or am I missing something?

Edited December 6, 2021 by dixon2094

[slick132]

Hi Dixon,

 

I have been trying to get FTR victims to be more assertive with the police, to try and get a more positive answer from them - either that they will, or will not, investigate FTR and or O'Hara.

 

We've been told they may refuse to assist, saying they don't deal with tax fraud and they leave that to HMRC. But I fail to see how they can justify this.

 

And that's why I want to force the issue with the police, so they at least give an answer.

[dixon2094]

Ah I see - I'll contact NP via phone around midday.

 

PS: here is a response I got from the Court Bailiff this morning:

 

"The warrant has been returned to the office as fast tax rebates ltd is no longer at this address"

 

No surprise.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for letting us know, Dixon. Not a surprise but it's still disappointing.

 

Not something you or we can do anything about, but you'd think the police would be able to get information on these people. The new director still has the other company, doesn't he, Mr MacNabb? And last time I looked they still seemed to be operating.

 

HB

[dixon2094]

Further reply from the Bailiff when I asked what was next:

 

"I would advise that you seek legal advice , you can reissue the warrant to a new address, if you have a further address for the defendant . Or you may wish to enforce the judgement by another means. Again if you are thinking of a different kind of enforcement , I would advise some kind of legal advise, if your not sure on how to proceed ."

[honeybee13]

I'm not sure it's legal advice you need, although other people know more about this than I do.

 

Would your main problem be that FTR and Messrs O'Hara and McNabb have gone to ground and you don't know where else to serve the papers? I've looked online for them many times and not found anything current. That's why the police or possibly Trading Standards would come in handy, as they have more legal powers than us.

 

HB

[dixon2094]

Hi, just a quick update.

 

I had to put in a query with Action Fraud (they call it a "complaint"), as NFIB never sent across the details of my case to Northumbria Police, or at least NP didn't receive it and had no recollection of my case when I called (they didn't even realise there was a [email protected] mailbox...)

 

I received a reply yesterday from Action Fraud saying:

"Dear XXXX, Following your recent enquiry #XXXXX, we would like to update you with the following response: Thank you for your message. I have asked the NFIB to resend the report to Northumbria Police. Kind regards"

 

So hopefully, NP now have it and will contact me very soon. I will keep chasing if not.

 

On the tax appeal front, I received a letter/email from Tax Appeals Tribunal just now, saying:

"Please write to us by no later than 26 January 2022 and update the Tribunal on any progress made and whether you are aware of any outstanding police action."

 

Obviously a LOT has happened between their last communication with me and articles have been published online, etc. I believe when you ring AF, they've also changed their IVR message to state they're aware of tax/HMRC scams which is interesting... 03001232040 if you want to see.

 

I'm just wondering what I should tell the Tax Appeals Tribunal, given a lot has happened since.

[slick132]

Hi Dixon,

 

I suggest you wait until 20th Jan to see if any more happens by then.

 

We can then draft a reply to the Tax Appeals Tribunal telling them of progress (or lack of it due to the police failing to give this matter proper attention). Come back here with an update so we know what to say.

 

I'm pleased to hear the AF Interactive Voice Response msg is now acknowledging these scams - that's encouraging.

[dixon2094]

Just rang NP again this morning for an update.

 

The case has been passed across successfully this time, however, the sergeant advised the officer on the phone to me, that all cases of this nature that are being passed from AF to NP, or given to NP direct, and just being passed from NP to HMRC "Investigation dept"? The sergeant said I just need to make HMRC aware...

 

I informed them that my HMRC case is with Tribunal and that it's HMRC that are asking me for an update with the police investigation... but at this point, I don't think NP are even looking into it. They are aware it's a nationwide "scam" however.

 

After giving them the news re HMRC's latest message re the investigation update, the sergeant advised the officer on the phone to me that a different sergeant responsible for fraud and suchlike may have more info, and so I was told they would ring me back later, rather than keeping me on hold etc...

 

In summary, I think NP along with all other constabularies are just passing cases to HMRC re this, and not looking into it directly.

 

PS: I think the reason NP didn't receive the first AF transfer is because it may have been sent to my local constabulary, not NP, given I don't actually live in NP's area.

 

UPDATE:

The officer just rang back now, and advised me that the 2nd sergeant is calling HMRC for an update now as HMRC are officially investigating this themselves, rather than NP or any other constabulary.

 

Hopefully, the sergeant will get back to me by the end of the day - the officer confirmed i'll be receiving a direct call from her, once she's spoken to HMRC. She will then advise me how best to respond to HMRC etc as she'll have a better understanding of where they're at (obviously I'll run it by you guys first before sending incase there's anything you'd like to add)

 

Progress...

Edited January 20, 2022 by dixon2094

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the update, Dixon. It's not quick on their part, but I agree, it's progress.

 

I'm sure you know to get all the information you can about who's dealing with it at HMRC, or at least the name of the department, so you can tell the tribunal.

 

No doubt Slick will have his own comments when he's able to get here.

 

HB

[dixon2094]

Hi, I received a call back from the sergeant who was extremely helpful. She gave me her direct email address and requested I forward my email from HMTCS and those I previously sent to af.contact so she can review in full.

 

I also forwarded the email from my MP which gave a direct contact at HMRC for EIS fraud queries to see if there's any match/link, etc.

 

Will update you as soon as I learn more.

Edited January 20, 2022 by dixon2094

[honeybee13]

That sounds hopeful, Dixon. Well done.

 

HB

[Schipoo]

1 hour ago, dixon2094 said:

Hi, I received a call back from the sergeant who was extremely helpful. She gave me her direct email address and requested I forward my email from HMTCS and those I previously sent to af.contact so she can review in full.

 

I also forwarded the email from my MP which gave a direct contact at HMRC for EIS fraud queries to see if there's any match/link, etc.

 

Will update you as soon as I learn more.

Hi Dixon

 

I am at the same stage as you in this process but not had any joy in speaking to someone direct at NP despite emailing the af.contact.  Would you mind messaging me direct to give me the email address? I’m worried I don’t have a lot of time left before the tribunal make a final decision. Thank you in advance 

[dixon2094]

Hi,

 

I've received a response from HMRC regarding my original complaint... they are sticking with the theory I am still responsible for repaying the full amount. Ridiculous!

 

See attached, @slick132 @honeybee13 @dx100uk

HMRC Letter.pdf

Edited January 21, 2022 by dixon2094

[honeybee13]

I agree, but we aren't going to give up. I think there must be something in the HMRC rulebook that says 'We are never wrong'.

 

HB

[slick132]

Thanks Dixon,

 

I need a couple of days to consider this and come back to you but I fear your options are limited.

[dixon2094]

Hi, I have to respond to HMCTS by end of today. I presume in relation to their questions about police investigation, I should say that I'm in direct contact with a sergeant at NP who is liaising and has passed across my info and updates to a senior member of HMRC? Also, make them aware of the recent letter I received to my "complaint" and that this is a ridiculous outcome, given HMRC are actually still wanting me to pay the full amount, yet are actively investigating the matter as fraud...

 

Do I also need to reply to that "complaint" too individually, and say I want it escalating? Yes, I may be responsible for my own GG account, however, I gave access under the impression is was legitimate (which they actually mention in the letter), and that it's also HMRC's responsibility to ensure that "nominees" can't defraud HMRC, using HMRC's own system! I mean, why not request proof of EIS BEFORE paying out.....

Edited January 26, 2022 by dixon2094

[honeybee13]

Hi Dixon.

 

I've let Slick know that today is your deadline, I expect he'll be along later.

 

HB

[dixon2094]

Hi, just checking to see if there's any update here before I send a response. I don't want to miss the deadline.

[slick132]

On it !

 

Bear with me a short while please ..........

[slick132]

Hi Dixon,

 

It's a bit confusing that you're dealing with 2 offices - the HMCTS Tax Appeals Tribunal; and the Individual and Small Business Compliance office in Newcastle. However, ..........

 

In the latest letter of 20th January from the ISBC, they refer to you being here on CAG. This suggests to me that the approaches that have been made "behind the scenes" by CIOT/LITRG and/or TaxWatch to HMRC and MP's have been heard. But we have yet to hear anything directly useful to the scam victims here on CAG.

 

In reply to HMCTS letter of 12th Jan (which we've not seen) I suggest you say :-

 

I refer to my appeal against the tax determinations and demands for tax of £xxxx.xx.

 

I have finally managed to get Northants Police to take this issue seriously and they are now looking into allegations by me and others of fraud carried out by FTR Ltd. I am waiting to hear back from them.

 

I maintain that HMRC failed to act with due dilligence repaying tax without adequate checks, given the unusual nature of the EIS relief claimed and the tax being paid to a new third party.

 

I await your further response.

[dixon2094]

Brilliant, thanks slick. I appreciate your help here and will get it across now.

 

Essentially, the letter from 12th is "Dear XXXX, Please write to us by no later than 26 January 2022 and update the Tribunal on any progress made and whether you are aware of any outstanding police action" Regards, XXXX" as mentioned in #159.

 

I'll let you know as soon as I hear anything back.

 

Is it not worth escalating the "complaint" in the ISBC letter?

 

The HMCTS communication is as a result of escalating and disagreeing with the original investigation into the EIS claim. The ISBC communication, I think, is from when I emailed the direct contact given to me by my MP.

[slick132]

Hi Dixon,

 

You can copy the letter to HMCTS to the ISBC Newcastle address saying the HMCTS process is ongoing so would they continue to postpone payment of tax pending a decision.

 

However I think, at the very least, you'll have to repay the tax you received from FTR. Possibly even all of the tax that was refunded initially to FTR.

 

So it would be a good idea to start repaying some of the tax to reduce the interest that will build up. Alternatively, you could put money aside each month in anticipation of having to repay some or all of the tax refunded.