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HMRC asking me to repay a rebate


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Hi Dixon,

 

The SAR to HMRC is your absolute right and will make no difference to how they deal with you repaying the debt. Click on this link to see the HMRC page - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/hmrc-subject-access-request You just need data about your income tax account for the last 6 years.

 

 

The idea is to see how HMRC came to review your rebate - ie. was it random; or were they aware of FTR making false EIS claims on behalf of clients. If the latter, the timing may be crucial in arguing that HMRC should have been aware of FTR's activities when they refunded you.

 

How did you contact HMRC asking for time to pay them. If this was only done by phone, you should request time to pay IN WRITING immediately.

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Hi slick,

 

I always ONLY correspond in emails and in writing. If there was a phone call, I always follow up by email and start "as discussed over the phone".

 

Here is the email I sent to HMRC yesterday: https://i.postimg.cc/Wpf4kt4M/Screenshot-2021-06-10-at-12-52-03-pm.png

 

I'll submit the SAR to HMRC now.

 

It may seem silly me asking, but I just want to ensure I do this right...

 

So, do I go to https://www.tax.service.gov.uk/shortforms/form/DPU_SAR and fill this out?

 

Selecting "Other" in Part B, and then in Part C mention "I would like all data about my income tax account for the last 6 years"?

 

Once this has information been received, how would I decipher to understand whether they knew about FTR's dealings prior to paying out? I understand the rebate was applied for/paid out June 2020.

 

Here is a snippet from the initial letter I received: https://i.postimg.cc/HnVcGy6t/Screenshot-2021-06-10-at-12-59-56-pm.png

 

I got the same letter for 17/18, 18/19, and 19/20 - all in one go.

 

They mention it's a "compliance check". Does this change things at all?

 

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yes 

 

and please dont use hosting sites

if you wish to post letter

follow our upload guide and use ONE multipage PDF only 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Sorry - will follow the guides moving forward.

 

The fact they say it's a "compliance check", doesn't this mean it was random?

 

Also, how would I decipher from the information I receive that they DID know about FTR at the time of my rebate being submitted for EIS?

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just type no need to hit quote everytime..

 

await the various sar info, you never know what the notes might say.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Okay great, thanks dx.

 

I'll submit the SAR to HMRC now.

 

But I'm confused as to why FTR would be mentioned in relation to their awareness to HMRC via my information? Surely the only mention of FTR on my info would be from the tax rebate?

 

How would I know if HMRC were aware of FTR, prior to my dealings from a SAR into my personal dealings?

 

Sorry if I sound dumb, I'm just trying to understand.

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Well lets not speculate for now..see what info you get and then we'll know what cards we can play with..

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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what dx100uk said, you never know what the information you get from an SAR might reveal. 

 

For it example it might show why they have not imposed any penalty on you and are asking for just the rebate back. Typical HMRC practice is to ask for some penalty on top of the refunded tax rebate to reflect what HMRC consider is the taxpayer's lack of care. That might (only might) mean that they know already that you are a victim of fraud so no penalty is justifed.

 

They'll probably redact information about FTR but you never know. Organisations do release stuff sometimes that's more than they should have! Ask and see what happens.

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Thanks both.

 

FYI: I've just gone over the letters and the total rebate amount actually totals £3700ish. So, actually FTR took around £2500, and I still got £1200. But HMRC are only requesting £3000.

 

So it's actually less than the rebate amount (as I understand it), with no penalties attached (which the HMRC agent did explain a further letter that they weren't adding any).

 

Let's see what the SAR brings up and i'll keep you updated.

 

Anything else you think I should know, please feel free to let me know!

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1 minute ago, dixon2094 said:

FYI: I've just gone over the letters and the total rebate amount actually totals £3700ish. So, actually FTR took around £2500, and I still got £1200. But HMRC are only requesting £3000.

Could that be because not all of the rebate arose from the (non-existent) EIS investment? Maybe there were other tax allowances which you were genuinely entitled to for those tax years but hadn't claimed before? 

 

Just a thought. It's a bit surprising otherwise why HMRC aren't asking for all the rebate back.

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Hi Dixon,

 

Use that form to submit the SAR but in Section B tick "Income Tax", use 6/4/2016 as the start date and 5/4/2021 as the end date, and enter your Tax Ref No.

 

In the Further Info box in Part C, I suggest you put :-

 

I require copies of any and all information held about my personal tax affairs including tax returns; submissions made and documents submitted on my behalf by Fast Tax Rebates; communications between HMRC and Fast Tax Rebates; tax calculations; files notes; memos sent or received; information about the decision to review my tax return and/or income tax affairs.

 

I suggest you also let us know how much you can afford monthly to repay to HMRC. It's unrealistic to expect HMRC to hold collection at this stage based on any intention to act against FTR.

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Ok, wait to see if Carol replies about your request to delay payments. But don't be surprised if demands start being made later this month.

 

We may need more info in due course about the actual figures involved - eg why a refund of £1,864.54 was made on a £3K investment which equates to tax relief at just over 62%. And we'll need to see why HMRC are reclaiming less than the amount they refunded to FTR.

 

But not yet.

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@dixon2094
For the EIS, this relates to buying shares in a small company (less than 250 employees). Were you aware of there being any investment involved for the EIS related tax rebate ?

 

If you were not aware of any investment in shares related to tax rebate and no shares were bought on your behalf, then if it were me, I think I might want to contact Action Fraud at some point, when more information about what has happened was available.  If this does turn into being a criminal matter, I wonder whether some compensation may be available through restitution. 

 

I suspect HMRC will have been investigating companies offering tax rebate help and gradually looking into individual taxpayer records to recover any amounts.

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Here is HMRC's response to my email:

 

The tax has been postponed pending the outcome of your appeal. My letter of 9 June 2021 was my decision about your appeal but this is not the end of the matter. You can ask for an independent review and a hearing at Tribunal which was explained in my letter. The appeal will remain open and the tax postponed whilst you go through this process; or withdraw your appeal. I have removed Fast Tax Rebates from your record as instructed.

 

I'd never even heard of EIS prior to receiving the letter from HMRC saying that I'd submitted a rebate in relation to it - well, FTR has done so "on my behalf".

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Hi Dixon,

 

In post #27 above, your 1st and 3rd links lead to the same email you sent to Carol at HMRC.

 

Can you post up their reply of 9th June, personal info redacted and in PDF format as DX suggested earlier, thanks.

 

Even if you don't have to pay HMRC immediately, I suggest you put the money away each month, ready to pay what you can when necessary. I've seen nothing so far to convince me that HMRC will have interest in, or sympathy for, your misfortune with FTR.

We could do with some help from you

                                                                PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

                                            Have we helped you ...?  Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

Please give something if you can. We all give our time free of charge but the site has bills to pay.

 

Thanks !:-)

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