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ECP/CST 2x ANPR PCN's PAPLOC - Deansgate Bridgewater ST Manchester


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Hi folks, looking for some help on a response to this letter before claim.

 

I’ll post a redacted photo of the letter in its entirety, short story is I received two PCN’s from the same carpark in 2019 of which I have ignored since.

 

At that time the PCN and warnings were sent to my parents address (not sure if relevant) and I kept ignoring the letters and instructed parents to not let up on where I was living should they be asked, like you do.

 

Anyway, cut to now and this Letter Before Claim has arrived at MY address, meaning they’ve obtained that somehow? Anyway, here’s the questionnaire and photos.

 

I’d really appreciate input on course of action, what I can say to ensure they have lawfully obtained my information (address) who to reply to, etc. 
 

I’m worried I only have 5 days to respond, only opened the  letter this afternoon.

 

 

1 Date of the infringement 17-04-2019 and 01-04-2019

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] Unsure - All I have is the Letter Before Claim letter.

 

3 Date received Letter Before Claim letter received 11th May 2021
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?] Not sure, I don’t think so though.
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? They had a picture of the car parked, that’s it.
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal] No
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A
 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro Car Parks LTD  

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Deansgate - Manchester, Bridgewater ST
 

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.  Not sure.

 

 

 

CST PAPLOC.pdf

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Even though this is a speculative invoice you should not be running and hiding. Its nothing to do with them legally which they have obtained your correct address

You are the one in the 'wrong'..that could have led to a backdoor ccj.

 

you nwed to reply with a snotty letter

 

plenty of cst sno tty letter s here

 

use our enhanced google search box

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thx for the reply, I’ve been reading some of the snotty letters and weighing up what’s best for me.

 

By being in the ‘wrong’ do you mean by not informing creditors of new address or insinuating they believe I’m wrong, I do worry reading about backdoor ccj,

 

is there a way to find out whether that’s the case and whether or not it’s in my credit history, cos if that’s the case would it not be better to just pay than be tarnished with 6 years of that on my file? Or is it too late for that now.

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dx meant that the fleecers legitimately got your parents' address from the DVLA as the car was registered there, and could very easily have sent a court claim there.  If you don't defend a court claim - you lose by default

 

59 minutes ago, LongPalm said:

Unsure - All I have is the Letter Before Claim letter.

 

Why do this?  What on earth makes people think that throwing away the paperwork when they're in legal dispute is better than, er, not throwing away the paperwork (which actually takes less effort).

 

Don't worry about the backdoor CCJ, it fortunately hasn't happened.  However, you need to roll up your sleeves over this and do what should have been done over two years ago.

 

Can you briefly tell us how you ended up with two of these invoices?  What do the fleecers reckon you did wrong twice in April 2019?

We could do with some help from you.

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Cool!! So you’re saying that because I’m receiving a Letter before Claim that any form of CCJ won’t exist yet right, because at this stage it’s the threat of legal action, I’ve not arrived at the point of receiving a court judgement.

 

As for the invoices, there weren’t any tickets paid for on the aforementioned car park and thus as the keeper of the vehicle I received two PCN’s as a result.

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2 minutes ago, LongPalm said:

Cool!! So you’re saying that because I’m receiving a Letter before Claim that any form of CCJ won’t exist yet right, because at this stage it’s the threat of legal action, I’ve not arrived at the point of receiving a court judgement

Spot on!  You're learning quick 👍

 

I would suggest that tomorrow you SAR Euro Car parks.  Stick in a photocopy of a utility bill or similar so they can't procrastinate and say you haven't shown proof of I.D./address.  That way you can your hands on the original PCNs.  Use the forum SAR template but at the start add "Please note that I have moved from XXXXX to XXXXX" which will remove any chances of a backdoor CCJ.  Get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

 

Then over the next few days get a snotty letter sent off. I see you've been looking round the forum for one (well done) so post a draft up here first and we'll help with any tweaking.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

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  • dx100uk changed the title to ECP/CST 2x ANPR PCN's PAPLOC - Deansgate Bridgewater ST Manchester

Don't even think about paying the fleecers.  We can help you bat away their claim.

 

However, the worst, most disastrous, nuclear option thing that could possibly happen, months down the line, is that they could take you to court , and you could lose.  In that case the judge would probably make you pay 2 x £100 plus around £100 costs.  You'll notice that the fleecers have made up £60 Unicorn Food Tax for each PCN, which has no basis whatsoever in law.  You'd actually pay less if you lost a court case!

 

But you won't lose a court case because we know how to beat these shysters.

 

BTW, even if someone loses in court, as long as they pay within 30 days as the judge orders, they don't get a CCJ.  There are no consequences whatsoever for the credit file.  CCJs are issued against people who defy the court and refuse to pay even when ordered to by a judge.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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just send a snotty letter to CST 

that will update your address also.

 

simply click SAR and get one of those running separately to too ECP

 

 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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11 hours ago, FTMDave said:

I would suggest that tomorrow you SAR Euro Car parks. Then over the next few days get a snotty letter sent off. I see you've been looking round the forum for one (well done) so post a draft up here first and we'll help with any tweaking.

 

 


Cool ok I’ll start the motions with the SAR today then,  I’ve just been to the hyperlinked page to read through SAR’s in general and can’t find the template for them on there for some reason?

 

In relation the the letter, as I have 5 days to reply, i suppose it is safe for me to assume that really I need to posting that letter out tomorrow latest, to allow for post time. I can get proof of postage of course but it does say in the letter to allow for postage time, is that just a threat?

 

It’s also been mentioned in other posts that nobody has been taken to court yet off of the back of the snotty letters relating these recent LBC’s, do we have any information as to what kind of replies they’ve had in wake to confirm receipt of the letter? Or is it a case of just lying in wait hoping that they don’t serve a court notice and assuming your letter has done it’s job? If you follow me.

 

I ask because my fiancé is super annoyed, her Aunty has recently had a ccj and she wants me to pay just to avoid the possibility of one as we’re looking to buy a house soon, I guess I’m just curious to know how or when we’d get an indicator as to it being over once the SAR and letter has been sent etc, more curious as to the how we know rather than a time period tbh.

 

Cheers for the help so far, really appreciate it.

 

Just need to find the template for SAR, also while I think about it, it mentions on the SAR page to not copy and paste altered templates to the public forum, but to link them instead, what does that mean, like, where am I linking to? For purposes of people checking them over before they’re sent.

 

Ta.

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The SAR template is on page 3 of the linked thread. We ask people not to post them on the open forum, so you just need to adapt it if it needs that.

 

They won't let you know they'll back down, often they just lapse into silence and hope you'll throw away the paperwork. If it ever gets as far as a court case, they have to write to you first and then there would be court papers. You can't get a CCJ unless

- they start a court case

- they win it, and they don't win many with people here

- and you don't pay what the judge says you owe within 28 days

 

It's a long way from CCJ stage.

 

So keep the paperwork even if it's a pain and probably keep them updated with your address. See what other people here think about the address bit.

 

HB

  • Like 1

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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@honeybee13Ahh yej, i was on that page with my pohone but shifted to my desktop, found the expanded bit now with template so i'll crack on with that.

 

Useful info about the CCJ as well thanks!!

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I hope that will reassure your fiancee. Unless you move and don't set up a redirect, you can't get a CCJ without knowing. Parking companies will write to an old address and if you don't reply, they can try a court case and win by default if you don't turn up.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Remember to put at the top of the SAR letter that you've moved from XXXXX to XXXXX.  That will prevent any chance of a backdoor CCJ.  Stick a photocopy of some I.D. in with it.  Send the letter off with a free Certificate of Posting from the post office today.

 

Then get drafting a snotty letter.

We could do with some help from you.

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16 minutes ago, FTMDave said:

Remember to put at the top of the SAR letter that you've moved from XXXXX to XXXXX.  That will prevent any chance of a backdoor CCJ.  Stick a photocopy of some I.D. in with it.  Send the letter off with a free Certificate of Posting from the post office today.

 

Then get drafting a snotty letter.

I've put "Note!! My address is XXXXXXX, please update these details.

" so as to not insinuate i know the location the previous PCN's went to.

Also in my letter to CST, at current i've put I have received no notification of said breaches and gone on to say until i have sight of those i can't comment any further.

I understand that this might result in them sending me more in the future but at least i buys me time while my SAR comes through and i can see what the alleged breaches are.

 

I'll be honest, ill weigh up the initial fees for the contraventions if they hold any weight, gonna wait to see what the crack is, i can't remember as it was two years ago and then assess.

 

I don't fancy risking getting anywhere near court so i thought this be a sensible option for now?

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25 minutes ago, LongPalm said:

I've put "Note!! My address is XXXXXXX, please update these details.

 

" so as to not insinuate i know the location the previous PCN's went to.

Also in my letter to CST, at current i've put I have received no notification of said breaches and gone on to say until i have sight of those i can't comment any further.

No, you're getting it wrong.  You chose to register the vehicle at your parents' address (there is a grand's fine if you register an address with the DVLA through which you can't be easily contacted).  The fleecers had every right to write to the address you registered the car at.  It's absurd to pretend you haven't read communications sent to the address you chose.  Just do what is written in post 17.

 

28 minutes ago, LongPalm said:

I don't fancy risking getting anywhere near court so i thought this be a sensible option for now?

I'm afraid court is always a possibility, especially when there are two tickets involved.  You'd better get used to the idea.

 

The point of a snotty letter is to put them off court action by showing you know the law and would be big trouble and would cost them if they did do court.  But there are no guarantees.

 

4 hours ago, LongPalm said:

It’s also been mentioned in other posts that nobody has been taken to court yet off of the back of the snotty letters relating these recent LBC’s,

I think you're referring to posts I made in the last few days about no court cases arising from a car park in Manchester, or from one in Stoke.  I wasn't referring to the whole country ever!

We could do with some help from you.

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be extremely careful about giving anything away in your snotty letter that might point to how you might defend a court claim or how they might succeed against you.

 

drop the address issue totally. it's not relevant at all.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Due to there being two infringments, shall i do one or two snotty letters? I'm thinking if i put both on one they might just bring the hammer down, whereas send two letters with single infringements then might be overlooked? If you get me.

 

 


Also, there is one issue i've just thought of, there are a few instances of me parking in this car park previously using obviously a card registered to me, is that something they could look at?

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the paploc is for both so should your snotty letter be.

 

add a line ..please inform your client of my correct and current address as above, which is about the only thing your are fit to do ...a mere paper shuffling secretary for your client

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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So, did you get the SAR/change of address letter off to Euro Car Parks today?

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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I did, got both sent off. Hopefully i don't hear anything from CST.

Two things onwards from that, best course of action if they do go ahead?

What do i do if Euro don't respond to the SAR?

 

I'm gonna go and look at the signage tomorrow, i have a feeling they might have been changed since two years ago.

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Well done. Take a deep breath, you aren't in a rush to do things now. :)

 

In terms of what happens next, we need you to read around the parking forum for cases involving ECP, especially any cases that are in our Successes forum. That way you'll know what to expect and nothing will come as a shock.

 

HB

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Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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