Train fine

[arianna22]

Hi we are in Wales and here not all stations have ticket machines and conductors don't come around anymore.

 

My daughter last wk was taking her son to his father's with my sons girlfriend on the train. They where paying by cash , so our trainstation has a ticket machine but is not manned. They got on train as where they were going has a manned office to purchase tickets its also the end of the line. 

 

When they got there they were stopped as soon as they got off , they were issued with a ticket to pay the single fair by the next day but the ticket states they have 21days. They weren't even allowed to purchase a return ticket at a extra cost of 50p . They were told get a single home and pay this tomorrow .

 

I emailed transport for Wales about the ticket as others who had fines had got on where they dont have ticket machines. been waiting for a response. Which we had today. Downside is the day after they didnt pay my sons partner had a £30 fine for none payment.

 

 

can they do this when no conductor is around and paying by cash?.

Secondly the ticket says 21days and they then fined the one for none payment in less than 24hrs.

Is that even allowed .

Thanks 

[unclebulgaria67]

I believe that if the ticket machine was not working at the station they got on the train, if there was no conductor on the train selling tickets, that passangers are only required to seek to obtain a ticket, as soon as they arrive at the destination station.  This is provided the destination statiion has a ticket office. 

 

But rail rules are quite complex, so you would be best to contact people who deal with such issues. There is the Rail Ombudsman service, but a complaint must be made to the Rail operator first.

 

 

 

 

Rail Ombudsman

WWW.RAILOMBUDSMAN.ORG

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The Rail Ombudsman is an independent, not-for-profit organisation. We offer a free, expert service to help sort out unresolved customer complaints...

 

[arianna22]

Thank you for the reply I will do this now and see what they say , thank you.

[unclebulgaria67]

In Wales the train operators have issues with people not buying tickets, due to unmanned stations, no onboard ticket sales and no ticket barriers at stations.  They therefore require all passengers boarding at stations with working ticket machines, to use the machines to purchase tickets, before boarding the trains.

 

If you visit the station, you will see signs up warning people to buy tickers before boarding trains.

 

Remember that stations often have CCTV, so they may be able to check, if the ticket machine was checked by a passenger to see if it was working, before boarding the train without a ticket. So it would be unwise to say the machine was not working, if they never attempted to use it.

 

Make the complaint and follow up with Ombudsman. They can look at the local issues on the day.

 

 

[honeybee13]

Hi.

 

Can you tell us which train company is involved please? It might help if we can look up their Ts and Cs.

 

You could have a look at Passenger Focus who can help. I've read about them in the past but don't know a lot about what they do.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/passenger-focus

 

HB

[arianna22]

 

They was paying cash which you cant do with a ticket machine .

 

Transport for Wales it is.

[unclebulgaria67]

Some of the machines accept cash payment, but they all accept card payment.

 

They wanted to pay by cash, but did they have cards on them to make payment using the ticket machine ?

 

Any complaint success will come down to how the Rail Operator normally provides the facilities for passengers to buy tickets.

 

Check ticket machine for payment options available and signage at station re buying ticket before boarding trains.  Get the facts completely clear, before starting the complaint.

 

 

[arianna22]

Ok thank you and yeah here no machines except cash ,only card payments which is a nightmare really .

[honeybee13]

So the people travelling don't have bank accounts? You can get a debit card for not much, with the right account. It might be cheaper than being sold a more expensive ticket or getting a fine.

 

HB

[unclebulgaria67]

If the people travelling had Bank cards available but choose not to use them, this would be a weak point in any complaint.

 

If the reason for the journey was essential e.g. Doctors appointment or there is a Court order requiring child to be taken to their Father on a particular day,  then this could be put forward as a mitigating circumstance.

 

There was a TV programme about the Rail Operators in Wales loosing loads of money to people who travel without buying tickets.  It is not economic for the stations to all have ticket offices open or have ticket barriers in place.  Therefore they rely on people buying tickets using the machines before boarding the trains.  And the Rail Operator may also have a mobile APP for tickets to be purchased.

 

This is where your local knowledge and the local knowledge of others is going to be required.  As well as the Rail Ombudsman, check locally whether there are any Public Transport Travellers organsistions.  The Passenger Focus group which Honeybee provided a link for, may be able to point you to local help.

[arianna22]

Ok thank you for all the help much appreciated

[45002]

arianna22

 

No one asked you which train stations were used in Wales.

 

Which ones ?

 

Easy to find out then what is and what not available at the stations !

 

Just to point out besides TFW, Great Western, Cross-country, Avanti West Coast  trains also operate in Wales

 

 

Edited June 2, 2021 by 45002

[arianna22]

Got on at abercynon and off at merthyr Tydfil. 

 

Got on at abercynon and off at merthyr Tydfil where they was waiting.

 

Between these stations there are numerous stations with no ticket machines and not manned either.

 

But they was still fined as well.

 

They had many people that day.

[unclebulgaria67]

This  link may help you.

 

Revenue Protection

TFWRAIL.WALES

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Transport for Wales | Buy Cheap Train Tickets and Check Train Times

 

[45002]

abercynon       http://tiny.cc/c0gytz

 

merthyr Tydfil  http://tiny.cc/e0gytz

 

 

"There are many ways to buy your ticket before you board

• From your local station booking office or self-service ticket machine -Credit and debt cards accepted
• From our website tfwwales (we don’t charge any booking fees)
• Download our free TfW Rail app then activate your ticket
• For regular travel – weekly, monthly or annual season tickets can offer great value"

 

The problem you have is like most other TOC's in the UK they  operate "we operate a Buy Before You Board policy" and in their Eyes they made No attempt to pay,  you could appeal but personal  I think it would be just a waste of time, unclebulgaria67 link has more details in the above post.

 

You said in your 1st post can they do this "yes they can"

 

My advice, pay what's due and learn for next time....

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2021 by 45002
URL as ever........

[arianna22]

So reading the info in that link the ticket they gave them for £3.30 they had 21days to pay it states that on there as well .

 

It also states that on the ticket they had.

 

But I.m unsure why my sons partner had a £30 fine the day after off them my daughter didn't

 

. I have emailed asking this and will pay my daughters ticket today .