Noisy neighbours and tenancy agreements

[cadpat]

I have a slightly unusual predicament in that my neighbour and I have the same landlord but he is employed by my landlord's family.

 

I am in Scotland and have lived at this pretty remote address for ten years. I moved here because I have PTSD with hypervigilence (at the time undiagnosed) and have other health issues which are aggravated by anxiety and needed a quiet environment.

 

My neighbour moved in about four years ago and was noisy from the outset. I asked him if he could be a little more considerate and he told me that he could make as much noise as he wants until midnight and there was nothing I could do about it. He also told me that he has my landlord wrapped around his little finger and can do whatever he wants and this has been borne out in numerous ways not least that he and his family have completely taken over an area of land which is supposed to be communal which now looks like a children's playground it is so full of their stuff. I turned a blind eye to this up until now because it kept them away from my house.

 

Things had got pretty bad for me and I had a bit of a breakdown and spoke to my landlord and to some extent, things calmed down. Since then, however, there have been some changes in the family hierarchy and another family member is in charge of tenancies. Recently, my neighbour or one of his extended family members has had a kid's quad bike which one of their children has been riding around. It wasn't very often and I just took some medication and put on my ear defenders when it started. But now, it looks like my neighbour has acquired a quad bike for his own child.

 

I suspect that my neighbour deliberately tries to wind me up but I cannot prove it. He wanders around outside my house talking loudly into his phone which he holds about two feet from his face and he slams the brakes on his truck when he does three point turns outside my house so that it skids on the gravel. To be honest and transparent, it is quiet a lot of the time but as soon as he is around, it is like somebody flicked a switch.

 

I really can't cope with the confrontation and I avoid going out of my door when they are around (which effectively means during daylight). If I could, I would move but I'm in my 60s and I don't think I have the energy nor do I think I could find an affordable place which would be suitable - especially right now. I have read my tenancy agreement which must be the same as my neighbours and it states that tenants should not cause nuisance to neighbours but I can't exactly force the landlord to enforce their own tenancy agreement.

 

I feel very down a lot of the time, I have spoken to veterans charities and had some counselling a while ago but as far as this situation is concerned, it's like a patronising, 'there, there...' 

 

My rent is paid to a trust which I have been led to believe gives me some rights but I have really no idea what that means in practice. It feel like whatever I do has the potential to make things worse and so I dread every weekend and just pray for rain.

[honeybee13]

Hello, welcome to CAG.

 

We have a good bunch of people who advise on letting problems, they should be along later to advise you.

 

Best, HB

[cadpat]

Thank you.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Welcome to CAG

 

I am sorry to hear what you are going through and suffering with PTSD and this ongoing matter will not help your condition. Are you getting any help for your PTSD Condition at present?

 

When you moved to your present property did you moved under Medical Reason and filled in the Housings Medical Reasons Application form which is different to a normal Housing Application Form? The reason I ask if you did move and fill in there Medical Reasons Application Form then the Housing is fully aware of your medical reasons.

 

Before I continue I do feel that you need to contact your GP and tell them exactly how you are feeling at this present moment and I would also advise as you are a Veteran contacting Veterans Gateway and having a wee chat with them here is there link:

Advice and support for veterans & ex-forces | Veterans' Gateway

WWW.VETERANSGATEWAY.ORG.UK

---

The Veterans' Gateway team is the first point of contact for the welfare needs of veterans and their families.

 

Could you clarify that you have a Tenancy Agreement with eithe a Housing Association or a Housing Trust? (could you name them)

 

As for them saying they can do what they want noise wise up to midnight they are sadly wrong and what they are doing is Anti Social Behaviour.

 

When you previously complained about this did you go through the Housings Complaint Procedure and they gave you a written response? if so exactly what did it state?

 

There will be no fast and easy solution to this without you keeping a written record of everything  and Compling to the Housing youing there Complaints Procedure and each til you complain to them you also report it to the Councils Anti Social Behaviour Team/Noise Team and the Police and your Local Councillor then record the date and times for each occcasion not matter how small or what the incident is. Keeping that written record is so important. I have attached and Incident Log in PDF for you.

 

You from now need to keep a good paper trail of every little incident and report it each time it happens as mentioned no matter what the incident is.

 

Also write to the Housing Association and ask them for copies of the following:

 

Customer Care Policy/Charter (not the leaflet)

Complaints Policy (not the leaflet)

Anti Social Behaviour Policy (not the leaflet)

 

If on reporting these incident they start to think it is you and get more anti social you immediately report this to the Police.

 

Don't let these idiot get the better of you asyou are worth more than these anti social idiots and DO NOT take things into your own hands no matter how bad it gets just phone the Police

 

as a Veteran myself Thank You for Your Service to your Country

 

Incident Log.pdf

[cadpat]

Hello Stu,

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

No, I'm not having any help at present.

 

Firstly, I felt like I had been on the M60 going the wrong way for several years and when I had been through Combat Stress and another veterans charity, I ended up being referred back to the same NHS department and the same proposed  treatment I had been having before I was diagnosed. I phoned the Combat Stress emergency number whilst my neighbour was having an outdoor party a few years ago and it wasn't a good experience.

 

Secondly, partly due to the current virus situation but mainly because I was only using my car to drive to the postbox about a mile away from my house every couple of weeks, I decided it didn't make economic sense to keep it on the road - so going anywhere is a bit problematic. The nearest place would be about 25 miles away.

 

That said, I have always had problems living with other people - especially sleeping with other people in the same house - but my girlfriend who used to live nearby and who had moved down to England for a job, recently moved back up here and is now living with me but she works long hours and I couldn't really rely on her for transport.

 

No, I didn't have any diagnosis when I moved here and was working so I didn't complete any housing application forms. I have had symptoms, especially hypervigilence, anxiety and depression for forty years and always tried to find somewhere quiet to live but I often found myself in the worst situations. I moved to my current address almost by accident. However, I have told the landlord (and his father before him) that I have mental health problems and have mentioned PTSD.

 

I appreciate the suggestion that I contact my GP and Veterans Gateway. They are options that I will bear in mind but I find the thought a bit daunting at the moment.

 

My tenancy agreement is with the trust. I don't really feel comfortable sharing the name of the trust as it is quite specific but the tenancy is administered by Savills.

 

I quoted what my neighbour said to me not long after he moved in. I had asked him if he could be more considerate with his noise - he was cleaning his car at the time with the doors open car stereo playing The Great Pretender over and over again at full volume. I don't think I can repeat the rest of the conversation publicly but it said a lot about his attitude.

 

I didn't make a formal complaint. I asked my then landlord if I could have a word with him and he came to my house (he only lived about 200m away). Things did improve a little. Since then, he moved to another house and one of his sons moved in and is in charge.

 

At the moment, my neighbour seems to be working away a lot and there are other factors which I think will mean that it will be mainly quiet for a while but his brothers children had been riding quad bikes around last summer right outside my house and the sight of one being unloaded a couple of days ago made me feel nauseous. I will keep a log of anything which happens.

 

Just as an aside, I worked with homeless young people for a while and I was trained to identify bullies and bullying and witnessed it for myself. They are experts at hiding their behaviour and charming other people. Everybody seems to think that the sun shines out of my neighbour's backside and I think that is part of his strategy for getting away with doing whatever he wants.

 

Thank you for your kind comments.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Just so we are clear is this a Private Housing Tenancy or with a Housing Association or Housing Trust? I  wont ask for the name but you mentioning Savills they are Estate Agents & Lettings Agents. (so sound more like Private Housing please correct me if I am wrong)

 

I can fully understand where you are coming from with Combat Stress and feelling like you are going round in circles as each time you ask for help it feels like you are starting at the beginning again with the same questions being asked time and again and made to feel like it is you and it is and in your mind and feel you are making it up.

 

Been there and blew up at NHS consultant (as they really don't know how ex forces deal with things) and basically told him to stop treating me like a child with there stupid question and been round all this and told him exacly what would happen and he was horrified and that is when things change for myself getting the correct help.

 

I know you may not want to but I feel it would be helpful to contact your GP and tell them what you have said about how you feel and everything that is going on with the Anti Social Behaviour of your neighbours even with combat stress and that you feel like your going round in circles with the same question all the time and also contact the Veterans Gateway and tell them the exact same

 

As mentioned keep a written evidence record of every single incident no matter how small and report it each time as mentioned you need to build up a case for them to be able to take action on this with the Anti Social Behaviour

 

Have you thought about installing CCTV Cameras (you would need the Landlords permission to do so) that is if you consider it. also if you have a mobile phone with the facility to record you have that option also (and wouldn't need Landlords for recording on your own mobile phone)

 

 

 

 

[cadpat]

To be honest, Stu, I don't know what the right answer to your question is. A family own the estate I live on and the tenancy agreement which was provided by Savills has the name of the estate with the word 'trust' added at the end. I had never give the significance much thought until I had a rare visitor recently who has lived in the area their whole life who was telling me how some estates are clearing their tenants to sell off the housing but he said, 'you'll be okay because Xxxx Estate is a trust'. The tenancy agreement simply says, 'Xxxx Estate Trust'.

 

For me, the circle was a two year circle enclosed in a five year circle; from being told that the only treatment available to me (pre-diagnosis) was something called CBAST. I read the information booklet about it and said that I don't see how this therapy can be of any help as it focussed on relationships and I live a virtual solitary existence so none of the case examples were remotely relevant. A few years later, I found myself being referred to two veterans charities by a mental health worker (who was nominally in one department of the NHS), Combat Stress being one. After waiting for a year, I spent a week at Combat Stress and then waited another year for my referral back and found myself with the same mental health worker who was now nominally working in a different department. They said that the only treatment available to me was CBAST. I explained my reservations but said I would engage with it so long as we were flexible as I would not be able to meet the programme's 'work' expectations. Anyway, about three weeks into it, they went on sick leave and never came back.

 

That has been another major problem - in ten years that I have been living in this health authority, I have seen more different people than I can count and almost all of them I only saw once. I felt like a lab rat with the chemicals they were giving me and the side effects made me feel worse - some were truly nightmarish. Prior to being referred to Combat Stress, I had reached the last straw when I had been put on a particular medication which had me wondering who I was every morning. I had driven to an appointment and sat in a waiting room for two hours until the doctor I was supposed to be seeing came out and told me she was busy in a meeting. I stopped taking the stuff that day and wrote to the Scottish Health Secretary about how unfit for purpose the mental health service was and detailed anonymously every fob off I had experienced. I got a letter which simply suggested that I contact Combat Stress and that's how I ended up going that way.

 

The diagnosis I got from Combat Stress was that the anxiety and PTSD (and other symptoms with names I don't remember off the top of my head) had been left untreated for so long (about 40 years) that they could not be treated in a conventional way because the way I had dealt with it in that time had effectively created a personality disorder. The only actual good that has come of it is that it has provided a lens through which I can look back on my life to get a better understanding. I spent about two years figuring it all out for myself and when I did have appointments with anybody, I knew I was wasting my time because I could spend an hour trying to explain a small point and they just wouldn't get it and sometimes they misunderstood something so badly that I had no confidence to tell them anything.

 

I still have the same symptoms but at least I don't feel like I am insane (most of the time) or try to annihilate them with alcohol.

 

Regarding cameras, I used to have a dashcam on my car which was parked outside and pointing toward my neighbour's house, they must have seen it every time they parked their car but it obviously didn't bother them. Anyway, yes, I will do that.

 

Thanks for your help.

[stu007]

Hi 

 

As said keep a record of every little incident.

 

As for your medical condition I do sympathise with you and what you are going through and know exactly where you are coming from about your treatment as had similar experience on the NHS as they just seem to not understand how ex forces operate and deal with things compared to a normal civilian.

 

My suggestion and you may already be doing this with your medical condition is to keep a diary and be absolutley open in it as to how your condition affects you on a daily basis.

 

Another source that may be of help is this link: 

UK Armed Forces & Military Veterans Charity | Help for Heroes

WWW.HELPFORHEROES.ORG.UK

---

We provide lifelong support to Service Personnel and Military Veterans with injuries, illnesses and wounds sustained while serving in the British Armed...

 

 

I myself fought Glasgow City Council for almost 3 years with all these different agencies that are suppose to help veterans including what was the War Pensions Agency at the time now Veterans Agency all telling me I was wrong and to go away but I wouldn't and fought tooth and nail and the outcome was I got a full apology off GCC, refunded £££££, changed there policies and benefited every single veteran in Glasgow as GCC had to relook at all Veterans cases.  Due to being Medically Discharged due to a back injured due to service GCC were penalising me and classing my Army Pension as an Occupational Pension so denied Benefits I was entitled to when it should have be classed the same as the War Pension I had and disregared

 

Had a meeting with the War Pension Agency after winning my case with other Veterans and I was horrified to hear there stories as well as mine.

 

You keep your head held high and think positive do not let then get to you (I know it is easy to say) but please keep the diary and contact the different links posted and don't hold back tell them exactly how you feel and especially of your previous treatment do not hold back be completely up front as to how you feel.

 

 

[cadpat]

Thanks again.

 

I guess you are a night owl going by the time of your posts. I am too and could stay up all night enjoying the peace and quiet when everybody else is asleep except that my girlfriend gets up at about 6.00am and we would hardly see each other. It's usually about 3.00am when I finally hit the hay anyway. Before she moved in, I tried going completely nocturnal - sleeping through the busiest parts of the day with earplugs in. But then I got a cat for company and that just isn't going to work.

 

I had a similar problem with my war pension although it only took a few phone calls and e-mails to sort out. Both my local council and DWP deducted it from my benefits until I made a fuss. I learned a long time ago to always cc the CAB in e-mails as it expedites matters considerably. As both offices did it, I think there is some general lack of understanding of policies.

 

It's probably because my girlfriend is now visibly living here that the only time the quad bike has been out, the neighbour steered his son away from our house. His son is only about three but when his brother's kids have been here who are older, they have torn about.

 

So, at this moment in time, it feels like I have made a fuss about nothing but I am also aware how things can change very quickly.

 

As an aside, the first in person contact I had with a veterans charity a few years ago, a guy came to my house and promised me all kinds of support and goodies. I didn't like him at all as he seemed more interested in telling me about himself than hearing what I had to say. Every time I said anything, he butted in to tell me something about himself and his military service. I remember he was driving a BMW and had what seemed like an expensive suit (I don't do fashion so I don't really know). Nothing he promised materialised and in fact, I ended up out of pocket because he said that another veterans charity would pay to get my car fixed as I was essentially housebound in the middle of nowhere and couldn't afford to get my car MoT'ed and I said I didn't think the car (an old Discovery) was economically worth fixing - it needed a lot of work. He insisted that he could get it sorted out and I ended up driving over a hundred miles with a friend escorting me to give me a lift home only to be told by the charity that they were not willing to pay.

 

Two years later, I discovered that the guy had embezzled thousands from the charity he worked for and that most of what he had boasted about himself was BS. I'll not name the charity as I don't know if they are still running and I don't want to tarnish them with his reputation any more than they already have been but I'd guess that you already know about him anyway. He seemed to get away with it as the actual amount I hear that he had taken was a lot more than he pleaded guilty to and he didn't have to surrender his car or house which had been financed by his theft. He did a short stint in prison then died not long afterwards. I credit my hypervigilance for smelling a rat the moment I met him. It can be like a superpower in that I can sense trouble of one sort or another well before the s hits the fan. Nobody ever listens, though.

[stu007]

Hi

 

Please do not let your previous experience with this individual from that specific charity dwell on you and I know it is easy for me to say this as I wasn't the one that they made all these promises of assistance to that did not happen due to what they done, at least they were caught.

 

I can fully understand your reluctance to put your trust in this system again after that but please remember things change the system has moved on and do not let what this person done stop you seeking the help/assistance you need.

 

Make an appointment with your GP and make sure you tell them firstly that you are a Veteran and want it noted in your Medical Records (priority of treatment for your medical condition if due to service) and secondly tell them exactly what you have said here and what you have not said here be completely open with them. (I know as a veteran myself we are a stubborn lot and are just used to getting on and dealing with things our way as we did in the military which is completely differently to how a normal civilian would would deal with things)

 

I was a stubborn git with my own pride after 18 years service medicall discharge due to a back injury due to service(the military was my career and suddenly gone) and I was soo angry with the system at the time and that changed when Glasgow City Council tried to do what I have already mentioned and that is the short version of the tactics they tried to get me to go away.

 

Something to also look up in your council area is who the Veterans Commisioner is for your area and keep note of it as you can tell them of your experiences as most Councils (but not all) now have a nominated Veteran Commissioner which you may be unaware of so look it up or simple ask your Council who your Veterans Commisioner is.

 

Please have a good think about contacting your GP and the other links I have previously posted and be completelty open about youe feeling/previous treatment.

 

I really do get where you are coming from as been there some years ago and my pride went when yes I broke down in front of my GP (when he had a go at me) and I blew up in front of him and told him everything that had happened and my treatment and he was horrified and put numerous thing in place.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[stu007]

Hi

 

Also this link will be of use have a good read of it:

 

Antisocial Behaviour etc. (Scotland) Act 2004: noise nuisance guidance: 

Antisocial Behaviour etc. (Scotland) Act 2004: noise nuisance guidance - gov.scot

WWW.GOV.SCOT

---

Scottish Government guidance on noise nuisance.

 

[cadpat]

No, I am not letting my previous experience affect me - that's why I didn't name the charity because I wouldn't want anybody else to judge them by it either.

 

My neighbour has been absent for a week now - which is nice for me. My landlord has a houseful of guests who are out around my house a lot but I can easily mask their noise with music or something.