CEL ANPR PCN - Port of Wells Car Park, the Quay, Wells-Next-The-Sea, NR231AT

[Muzza26]

Hi, you guys have helped before so again i'm looking for advice as i have tried to follow other threads and wanted to check a few things. 

 

I am the registered keeper, and I received the PCN last year for a parking violation of no ticket, but have been ignoring the letters as its addressed to me but I was not the person who was supposedly parking.  Ironically there are no photos of the car being parked and from what I understand the car was never parked as no-one left the vehicle, only sort the kids out before continuing their journey.  

 

I have had other letters in the past which i don't have anymore as i have also moved so have a new address!  Not sure if this effects me needing to correspond with them as have to get it from new owners. 

 

Its now asking to fill in the PAP which i don't really understand what it is?  Is this the letter before court that other posts have mentioned? 

 

Any advice would be greatly received.

 

Many thanks.

 

Muzza26

 

Date of the infringement

12/07/2020
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

Not sure, i will check!

 

3 Date received

10/05/2021
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

It does!
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Yes, but only the car going in and out of the car park, not parked!
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

No.
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

I keep getting letters in escalating threats, but following other posts advice, i have ignored and not replied.
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Civil Enforcement have picked this one up.

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Port of Wells Car Park, the Quey, Wells-Next-The-Sea, NR231AT
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

It doesn't say.
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

I think its BPA.

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

Date of the infringement

Give answer here
 

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date]

Give answer here
 

[scan up BOTH SIDES as ONE PDF- follow the upload guide]

please do not put JPG Picture files into your post

 

3 Date received

Give answer here
 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [Y/N?]

Give answer here
 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event?

Give answer here
 

6 Have you appealed? [Y/N?] post up your appeal]

Give answer here
 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

Give answer here
 

7 Who is the parking company?

Give answer here

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town]

Give answer here
 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

Give answer here
 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

I think its BPA.

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

As i mentioned i have received the original PCN, then more and more threatening letters until the last one that i have attached.  

 

Copy the windscreen or ANPR section to your thread and answer the questions...

……....

In either case scan up bothsides of any letters/tickets in or appeals made out to ONE MULTIPAGE PDF ONLY

please do not put JPG Picture files into your post

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dx100uk]

well fill our questions our please....

how long was the stay and this is a port covered by Port byelaws is it not??

[Muzza26]

Hi, am I missing something but I couldn’t see any other questions on the template?  
 

The stay didn’t really happen as it was only there for less than 30minutes,but no one got out of the car?  

[lookinforinfo]

Please post up the Notice to Keeper as it will give information on the validity of the PCN and whether you can be held liable for the debt.

 

[dx100uk]

post all you have received to date bothsides one multipage PDF only

had to remove you upload 

as crossing out with a pen is no good they can still see your details through the pen.

 

there are numerous questions unanswered get the answers from the paperwork to date

 

[lookinforinfo]

You can place a piece of paper over the details that need to redacted eg your name, address and reg. number but please show all dates and times.Are you sure there were no photographs taken?

[dx100uk]

owned by the port harbour commissioners so i suspect byelaws might apply here

[Montego]

If it is within the harbour estate, The Wells Harbour Revision Order 1994,  General Bylaws, s.9,(1),(k) regulates the movement ,speed and parking of vehicles on the estate.  

[FTMDave]

By "3 Date received" we meant when you received their first letter which they will have called a PCN.  It will show whether they have sent out their paperwork in time to create keeper liability.

 

In any case their claim is pants - bye-laws, 10 minutes' grace period, no actual parking, etc.

 

The letter they sent is rubbish as a Letter Before Action but they do go on about pre-action protocol so it's best you reply with a suitable snotty letter.  You also need to let them have your new address, otherwise they could sue you at your old address and you'd lose automatically as you'd know nowt about it.

[dx100uk]

but dont give ANYTHING away you know they have no legal claim...

[Muzza26]

Thanks all.  I have been trying to find the original letter where they had pictures of my car entering and leaving the car park, but stupidly i now can't find!  

 

So if i need to discretely contact them and change my address but without incriminating myself, how should i do this?  Do i just make a very basic letter with the reference number and inform them of my correspondence address? 

 

Also - should i ask for the original photo evidence again?

 

Thanks in advance.

[dx100uk]

why?

 

 

[FTMDave]

No, they have sent you a letter mentioning Pre-Action Protocol so you need to try to disuade them from issuing a county court claimform by showing them you'd be trouble if they did do court and would hit them in the wallet.  Something like -

 

 

Dear CEL,

 

Re: PCN no. XXXXX

 

would you please note that I have moved from XXXXX to XXXXX.

 

Also, cheers for your letter dated XXXXX which I'm guessing was your teaboy's attempt at writing a Letter Before Action.  I had a good laugh at the idea that you really think a motorist would take such tripe seriously and would actually cough up.

 

Now you know and I know and now you know that I know all the reasons why your claims against motorists parking at the Port of Wells are complete pants.

 

You also scored a big own goal by sticking in £60 Unicorn Food Tax.  I doubt a judge would be very impressed by these made-up charges.

 

If you want to go to court, fine, I will go for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and then spend it all on a foreign holiday after borders reopen while laughing at your expense.

 

I look forward to your deafening silence.

 

 

I notice in post 9 a Letter Before Action is mentioned, but it seems to have disappeared from the thread.  Will you please redact and post it up again as I wouldn't want there to be something to contradict the proposed snotty letter.  Indeed redact and upload all the correspondence you have from the fleecers.

 

 

[Muzza26]

FTMDave, thanks for the good laugh, i like the letter and think you have the tone just right!!

 

Here is the documents I have, which are pretty much the same and come in once a month!  The original just had the details of the supposed crime, but only had a grainy picture of the car entering and leaving with a time stamp of how long it was there. 

 

So, still think I should send in same sarcastic tone?

 

Thanks.

 

Muzza26

letters i have....pdf

[FTMDave]

Thanks.  I don't know why the letter disappeared after you uploaded it the first time.

 

However, I think I've got it wrong.  CEL wrote to you on 12.07.2020, later some powerless debt collectors wrote on 18.12.2020.  If so the matter is not at Letter Before Action stage.  You can simply go on ignoring CEL.

 

Is that right?  No other correspondence since 18.12.2020?

[Muzza26]

Hi, no the last correspondence was from Civil Enforcement on the 10th May 2021.
 

thx  

[dx100uk]

prob got the letter on my server by not around till later, 

i believe it was just crossed out in pen and could be seen thru, though i thought i'd copied it back here hidden...but cag did go funny that time i think

[FTMDave]

Did this 10.05.2021 letter include anything about Letter Before Action, Letter Before Claim, Letter of Claim, PAPLOC, or Pre-Action Protocol?

 

Or were there just the usual generic threats from CEL?

 

The difference is very important.  From memory, and from what is written in post 9, I think it was the former.

[FTMDave]

Thanks dx.

[Muzza26]

On 21/05/2021 at 12:50, lookinforinfo said:

You can place a piece of paper over the details that need to redacted eg your name, address and reg. number but please show all dates and times.Are you sure there were no photographs taken?

 

[Muzza26]

Hi, the only other part of the letter on the 10th May 21 is now attached.  It is a reply for on if and how I will pay and asked for all my earnings with a load of cases that they have won.  
 

nothing about the final warning or letter before court, etc..

REPLY FORM.pdf

[lookinforinfo]

That 10th May letter does look like a Letter before Action. You only have a couple of days more to reply.

[FTMDave]

Yes lookinforinfo, I seem to remember it was an LBA.

 

Muzza, for goodness sake learn from this and never throw away the paperwork when you're in legal dispute.  All that leads to is confusion and trying to guess what is going on.

 

So from Plan A to Plan B to Plan A again.  I've tweaked the snotty letter.  If none of the regulars suggest changes this evening, get it sent off tomorrow by normal post but get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office.

 

Dear CEL,

 

Re: PCN no. XXXXX

 

would you please note that I have moved from XXXXX to XXXXX.

 

Also, cheers for your letter dated 10 May which I'm guessing was your teaboy's attempt at writing a Letter Before Action.  I had a good laugh at the idea that you really think a motorist would take such tripe seriously and would actually cough up.

 

Now you know and I know and now you know that I know all the reasons why your claims against motorists parking at the Port of Wells are complete pants.

 

You also scored a big own goal by sticking in £82 Unicorn Food Tax.  I doubt a judge would be very impressed by these daft made-up charges.

 

If you want to go to court, fine, I will go for an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g) and then spend it all on a foreign holiday after borders reopen while laughing at your expense.

 

I look forward to your deafening silence.

[Muzza26]

Thanks and yes I will get it posted tomorrow first thing, unless I hear otherwise.  
 

I agree, pretty daft to lose the original paperwork, I might have a better look tonight and see if I put it somewhere!  
 

How long after would I normally expect to see a court letter after the LBA?  How do they even know who was driving, do they have to guess and just take it the registered keeper was responsible? 
 

Thanks for the replies, you guys are extremely informative.  

[FTMDave]

2 hours ago, Muzza26 said:

How long after would I normally expect to see a court letter after the LBA?  How do they even know who was driving, do they have to guess and just take it the registered keeper was responsible?  

Impossible to say.  Some of the PPCs are organised and about a month after the deadline given in the LBA they will sue who they have decided to sue.

 

But there's no rhyme or reason.  Some will crawl back under their stone and then a year later send another LBA from a firm of solicitors.

 

Yes, they usually just decide the keeper was the driver, and in fact have been hammered in court on this point countless times.