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@Livewell_today - Faulty Disability Scooter from a month after receiving it.


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Hi BF

No the information about the battery conditioning came on 31st January there was nothing on the website and nothing about it in the handbook, i did notice in the handbook it said could not use the scooter in the rain, which i didnt do, after all who wants to get wet for no reason.

No the letter has not gone yet, just needed your input just in case i missed something 

 

many thanks 

Lets

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Well in that case I find it very significant that there were electrical faults, they had attempted to address them – eventually sending you a new battery and after the new battery followed up with instructions as to how to use it.

If there is some special way of using a battery – over and above how any reasonable person would treat a battery – then I would have expected the instructions to be provided at the point of sale or even before so that people would know what they are getting into.

It now appears by the provision of instructions after the provision of the second battery, that they may not have provided sufficient information for the scooter to be used correctly the first place. In that case, this will be another black mark against them.

Can you tell us more about these instructions and remind me of when or what were the circumstances in which they were provided to you

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Hi BF 

the first battery replacement took place in October 20, the battery leaflet which by the looks of it are missing instructions 1& 2, 

however they were sent via email on 12/1/21.

 

they were provided after I had rang them saying the batteries had failed again i also explained that i hadn't actually used the scooter through December 

 

is there anything i need to add to my letter of claim 

 

many thanks 

Lets

charger.pdf

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Quote

 

Dear Sir/Mdm


Letter of Claim

As you know, I purchased the Livewell Jaunt Plus mobility scooter from you on 9th September 2020. This scooter was delivered on 15th September 2020, However after a few weeks of use the battery pack failed to hold a charge, I contacted Livewell on 09 Oct 20 at 14:45:47hrs to notify Livewell of the fault.

Instead of rejecting the scooter out of hand, I contacted Livewell to give a chance for the scooter to be repaired/or replaced, as such a new battery pack was sent out and received on the following Tuesday, a phone call was received from Homeserve to arrange for the battery pack too be switched over and the scooter to be checked for faults. However, the Homeserve technician did not actually attend to look at the scooter until the first week of November 2020.

Upon the engineers visit, he changed and checked the battery pack as well as the charger and said all was well and left, I was unaware of any issues that he may or may not have found as he said it was ok.

 

The scooter was Ok to use for a short period ,bearing in mind weather and time of year the scooter was not used much however I had to contact Livewell on 31st January 2021 when the scooter failed again, I was then told about a charging cycle that the scooter needed to do in order to maintain the battery sustainability, I was also sent an email on 31st January 201 with the details of this, however I did explain to the technician at Livewell that how the scooter needed to be charged was the same way that I was charging it and also the exact same way as I was charging my bigger scooter.

The suggestion of conditioning the batteries was to take the scooter around the block then put on charge for between 12-16hrs then run again and repeat for around 15 times.

 

With the battery pack failing I was unable to use the scooter at all through February, as the scooter could not go anywhere. I could also not use the scooter in march either and when I did attempt to use it the LED displayed on and then went off, I then contacted Livewell again and the technician I spoke to arranged for a new head unit to be sent out as well as a new battery pack, this arrangement took place on 31st march 21, arrangements for the Homeserve technician to fit the new parts and battery pack was done with a phone call being received from Homeserve the following day, the technician arrived on 26th April 21 to undertake this work, however after replacing the battery pack and the head control unit, the technician failed to get the scooter going.

 

when I attempted to cooperate with Livewell by following your instructions and implementing remedial measures including implementing battery charging regimes and also receiving the Homeserve engineer on two occasions in order to carry out further remedial work.

None of these measures have had the effect of producing a permanent solution and at best, the scooter has worked for a short while and then completely failed once again.

You eventually agreed to have the scooter collected from my home in the Isle of Wight and this was to be sent to you engineering Department for further work, for this purpose I was sent a large box to pack the scooter and batteries in for the purpose of making the scooter ready for your collection.

As you know, I am disabled – that is the reason why I need the mobility scooter in the first place – and I was unable to package as well as store the packed scooter while I wait for it to be collected, I also informed Livewell of the fact that I also had steps going onto the pavement where the scooter would be collected from.

 

I did received the Box and this measures roughly 6ft x 3ft x 3ft not something I would be able to move out of the house and store outside as I would have nowhere to store it.

 


I informed you of this difficulty and to my surprise I had nothing further until I was eventually obliged to telephone you. I telephoned twice and each time I was informed that I would receive a telephone call from your manager and despite the fact that I waited in all day, this did not happen.

 

When I eventually did speak to somebody, I was told that in fact you would not be able to arrange collection because your courier did not service the Isle of Wight area. Apart from the fact that this was a complete reversal of what you had originally promised me, I notice that you had no difficulty in having the mobility scooter delivered to me on the Isle of Wight when you were in the business of selling it to me.
It is only now that there are problems with it that coincidently you are apparently unable to find a courier who will visit to collect it.

About a week later with no communication from you, I I suddenly received an email informing me that you had decided that the entire problem had been caused by some ingress of water  which had apparently caused rust.

This this was completely new information and had never been suggested at all by the engineer  who visited me. Furthermore, this is not my first mobility scooter and I have experience of them and this was well stored undercover and not in a damp environment.



Additionally, because of all the problems experienced with it, the mobility scooter has scarcely been used since it arrived in September 2020.

 

I have started looking more closely at the instructions which are supplied with the scooter when it was first delivered to me. I find that part of the instructions are missing.

He eventually sent me the remainder of the instructions only in January of this year.

It is clear that the mobility scooter suffered from an electrical fault from the very moment that it was delivered and although there have been various attempts to address the issue, including the provision of a replacement battery with new instructions as to how to treat it – which were not provided at the outset, the electrical problem is continuing and the mobility scooter cannot be used.

 

It is clear that the mobility scooter is not of satisfactory quality to the extent that it is unusable and therefore I have been deprived of fundamentally the whole benefit of the contract to the extent that your breach of contract amounts to a fundamental breach.

I'm writing to you that I'm accepting that the contract has been fundamentally breached by you and that I have no further confidence in either the scooter or Livewell  And therefore I am treating the contract is terminated.

I require reimbursement in full of the purchase price and additionally that you should make immediate arrangements to collect the mobility scooter from me.

If you do not reimburse me and collect the scooter within 14 days of this letter and I shall begin County Court proceedings against you and without any further notice.

In addition, if you have not collected the mobility scooter by the end of 14 days, I shall apply a daily storage charge of £3 a day for the scooter and £3 for the Box to pack it in, until such time that the scooter is collected by you and I shall include a claim for the storage charge in my County Court claim for your breach of contract.

 

 

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I've made some amendments to your letter of claim. If you're happy about it then send off immediately.

Please let me remind you again – that once you send this letter of claim, you are setting deadlines for action which must be abided by. When you start the action must abide by the various timescale steps which are involved in bringing a county court action.

I understand that you are under disability but am afraid that the court procedure will not be patient about that and nor will the defendant in the case.

Send the letter of claim if you are happy with it. If you want to make amendments then let us know what they are.

Register with the County Court's moneyclaim website and start preparing your case. You can save your work as you go. Post up a draft particulars of claim here but keep it very short so it fits into the word limit of the website. You will not be sending any additional particulars of claim.

 

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Well register on the moneyclaim site and start preparing. You've given them 14 days so you need to be fully prepared to click the claim of on day 15.

Have it already well in advance. Make sure you identify correctly the name of the company that you are suing.

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Hi BF 

Many thanks for that, i have now sent it off recorded delivery so will see what happens.

will keep you posted 

 

I am just doing the claim online and this is what I have put in the particulars of claim

 

Quote

I purchased a Mobility Scooter from Livewell 
Today Ltd on 9th September 2020, it was received by me on 15th September 2020

in October 2020 the scooter failed and has not been of usable quality since then, Livewell today has 
breached the contract of the sale by not supplying a mobility scooter of usable 
quality.
I have given Livewell the opportunity to repair the either repair or replace the scooter but they have failed on this.

I will also be claiming for the interest on the monies outstanding at the court rate of 8% per day as well as for the storage  of the mobility scooter as well as the cardboard box that was sent send the 
scooter back in at the rate of £3 per day for each of these items.

 charges will be from 13th July 2021 and will continue up to the date that the issues with the scooter are resolved.

does it sound ok to you

many thanks  

Lets

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Hi BF

i have just received this email from Livewell ...my thought is just to reply with this 

Quote

Many thanks for your attention in this matter, I have no problems with the scooter being collected, however I will need to know who and when it will be collected and also, the scooter once it is with your couriers that a full refund will be received with me, I do not want the scooter repaired the fault has been an ongoing fault from the start and I have lost all confidence in both the scooter and Livewell today 

 

here is their email

 

Quote
Thank you for your letter addressed to Livewells director, I'm sorry to see you felt the need to contact him directly but understand that we haven't got back to you in a timely manner, which I'm very sorry for. I'm also sorry to hear about the numerous concerns you have had regarding your scooters reliability since you purchased it around 10 months ago. We do all we can to ensure we're selling quality mobility products at the most affordable prices, so to hear the issues you have reported with your scooter does cause me, and the company, some concern.
 
I have seen the report which HomeServe conducted on our behalf, and also compared this to the photo's that you provided of the scooter. What I'd like to propose is that we arrange to collect the scooter from you and have it sent back to its manufacturers, Drive Devilbiss, in order for them to full assess where the issue lays with the scooter. Once Drive have conducted this investigation, if the reason for it not working is down to a manufacturing fault then I will be happy to issue a full refund to you. 
 
In order to get the scooter collected from you, it would need to be packaged in some way. I have read & understood your concerns about this, however there simply isn't a way that we can collect a scooter from you without it being packaged in a box. You rightly say that we have no issue sending a scooter to the Isle of Wight and this is because it's in its original packaging, so whilst we also have no issue collecting from the Isle of Wight, it would need to be packaged in order for any courier to arrange to collect it from you. 
 
Please let me know your thoughts on what I've proposed and I'll be happy to make the necessary arrangements once I hear back from you. 

 

cheers

Lets

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how was the scooter org delivered?

was it in a box that you needed help to removed and put together?

 

return should be the same....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Well it does seem that you have pushed them to take a proper interest now of course you are in exactly the same position that they are insisting that you will have to package the scooter.

Because the scooter is being returned because it is defective, I think that it is their responsibility to sort out the packaging. Of course it would be nice if you could cooperate but that would simply be a gesture on your part and as you are apparently hampered by a disability and so therefore unable to do the packaging yourself, then I think that your very reasonable position is that they supplied a scooter which was defective. They knew that you were disabled. They "take the victim as they find them" and it falls to them to sort the problem out.

Had the scooter been being returned under the distance selling rules, then yes – you would be responsible for packaging it and returning it in its saleable condition. However the issue is that the scooter is defective.

They are offering to take the scooter back to have it investigated by the manufacturer. I don't think they offered this before but they did offer to take it away and have it repaired or inspected – but they still wanted you to package it so really the position hasn't changed very much.

Also, if the manufacturers carry out an investigation and report that the problem has been caused by you, then you will be in exactly the same position that you will have to pay for the repair and then simply the cost of transporting the scooter back to you.

So far you have had one report carried out by Homeserve but of course this is not an independent report. A manufacturers inspection would also not necessarily be free of bias.
Where are these scooters manufactured anyway? Do you know?

  • If you want to continue with your deadline for litigation then it might be an idea at least to extend one week as a gesture from you on the basis that they have eventually made a response. If that's what you want to do then we should certainly write them a letter but I think that the letter should point out things such as that when you purchase a scooter from them, you're not only purchasing the item but you are also purchasing a level of support and in view of the fact that you have had no use from the scooter and only minimal support, they are thoroughly in breach of all their obligations.
  • Secondly, there initial position in terms of collecting the scooter was simply that they are unable to collect from you on the Isle of Wight. Clearly this is untrue because they have now changed the position and they have agreed that the scooter can be collected but it is simply a matter packaging. This is a very substantial shift.
  • Third, the scooter is being returned because it is defective and they are therefore liable for all the related difficulties including the problem with packaging. You can point out them that if you are not disabled you would be very happy to package the scooter for them. That you are not declining to assist simply because you are being bloody-minded. It simply that you are disabled – which after all, is why you have purchased a disability scooter. It's completely foreseeable that if you supply a defective disability scooter to a disabled customer, that there may well be difficulties associated with repackaging or returning the scooter that that is part of the support that a properly run business which supplies disability scooters should expect to provide.
  • Finally, you have had no use from the scooter. This issue has been going on for 10 months and it is only now that you have issued a threat of legal action that they appear to be sitting up and taking any real notice.

 

In view of the fact that they have decided to communicate with you, you are extending your deadline by seven days but after that you will be issuing County Court action. They can look forward to attending the court hearing on the Isle of Wight. You fully expect to be given judgement against them and so while they are on the Isle of Wight and after they have left the court building that in addition to reimbursing you your money plus interest plus costs, they should make appropriate arrangements to take the scooter away at the same time because they will be able to kill two birds with one stone.

Draft something like that and let's see it.

Will deal with your particular claim afterwards but it's a bit wordy

 

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You live on the Isle of Wight and Livewell Today are in Halifax?  (It's difficult to tell as they don't exactly advertise their address on the website you gave - which I always think looks a bit odd... ).

 

Have you considered getting somebody local to you to inspect the scooter and give you an independent report?  A quick google of "mobility scooters Isle of Wight" appears to give half a dozen or so results and at least one of them (I haven't checked any of the others) in Shanklin claims to be able to repair mobility scooters:  Mobility Scooter Repair - Shanklin, Isle of Wight (coastalmobilityisleofwight.co.uk)  And they give a clear address under their contact details - you don't need to search their returns policy to find it.  (They appear to have a second shop in Newport too - although they seem to call it New Port?)

 

Why don't you contact them and/or the others (I'm not recommending anyone), explain your problem and see if you can get any of them to provide an independent report as to the cause of the fault?  eg (1) manufacturing fault, or (2) retailer did not provide you with correct battery re-charging instructions* or (3) user caused fault.

 

I don't see what you have to lose by trying this and it might give you further leverage against the supplier.  But see what others think.

 

 

*I'm unsure reading the thread, but is it being suggested that Livewell did not supply you with correct instructions re initial charging and subsequent recharging of the battery?

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Hi BF

i have just received this email from Livewell ...my thought is just to reply with this 

Quote

Many thanks for your attention in this matter, I have no problems with the scooter being collected, however I will need to know who and when it will be collected and also, the scooter once it is with your couriers that I will receive a full refund , I do not want the scooter repaired the fault has been an ongoing fault from the start and I have lost all confidence in both the scooter and Livewell today.

So far the scooter has been seen by an engineer appointed by Livewell and now you say that you will send it to your supplier/manufacturer, both of which are not independent of Livewell. 

Please bear in mind that I am disabled , please can you let me know how I am suppose to package the scooter ready for shipment, as the scooter has been faulty from the October 2020, I do believe the packaging of the scooter and the collection should fall upon the responsibility of yourselves, Livewell, As previously stated the box is 3ft x 3ft x 6ft and i have no means on how to get the scooter in the box let alone down the steps leading to the pavement. With this in mind I am willing to extend the deadline for filing the County Court Claim to 21st July 2021 giving Livewell time to arrange collection and the full refund of the scooter 

here is their email

 

Quote
Thank you for your letter addressed to Livewells director, I'm sorry to see you felt the need to contact him directly but understand that we haven't got back to you in a timely manner, which I'm very sorry for. I'm also sorry to hear about the numerous concerns you have had regarding your scooters reliability since you purchased it around 10 months ago. We do all we can to ensure we're selling quality mobility products at the most affordable prices, so to hear the issues you have reported with your scooter does cause me, and the company, some concern.
 
I have seen the report which HomeServe conducted on our behalf, and also compared this to the photo's that you provided of the scooter. What I'd like to propose is that we arrange to collect the scooter from you and have it sent back to its manufacturers, Drive Devilbiss, in order for them to full assess where the issue lays with the scooter. Once Drive have conducted this investigation, if the reason for it not working is down to a manufacturing fault then I will be happy to issue a full refund to you. 
 
In order to get the scooter collected from you, it would need to be packaged in some way. I have read & understood your concerns about this, however there simply isn't a way that we can collect a scooter from you without it being packaged in a box. You rightly say that we have no issue sending a scooter to the Isle of Wight and this is because it's in its original packaging, so whilst we also have no issue collecting from the Isle of Wight, it would need to be packaged in order for any courier to arrange to collect it from you. 
 
Please let me know your thoughts on what I've proposed and I'll be happy to make the necessary arrangements once I hear back from you. 

The Manufacturer of the scooter is  Drive Devilbliss and his is what is on the Livewell page 

2017 – Livewell consolidated its supplier base to buy exclusively from Drive DeVilbiss, one of the world’s largest suppliers of mobility equipment. 

 

so not much chance of impartiality 

 

Hi Manxman

I will be giving a couple of the local companies a shout and see what they say, 

cheers 

lets

 

Cheers Lets

 

 

cheers

Lets

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I've suddenly had an idea. Isn't there some local tradesperson who might be interested in earning 30 quid to visit you and to package the scooter correctly?

If you think you could identify such a person then we could write to the retailer and tell them what you going to do and putting them on notice that you will be looking for reimbursement of that figure as well.

Then in your response to them you could point out that you're not prepared to accept any conditions. In order for them to mitigate their loss and avoid storage fees they should arrange to collect the scooter in any event but that if there is a reimbursement in full within seven days after the date of collection then you will begin your legal action. If they do reimburse you then you are prepared to forego the 30 quid as a gesture of goodwill to them that if they force you to court then you will be claiming everything.

Maybe should point out that when people by mobility scooters from them, they aren't only buying the product. They are by support and some loyalty. The final of a good company is not what happens when things go right but what happens when things go wrong. On that measure they have failed very badly.

Let us know if you can think of somebody who is prepared to and the money to package the scooter. There must be loads of people who would be prepared to pick up a bit of money for what, a half hours work?
I think that would show a cooperative spirit it would move the whole problem along and at least get the scooter out of your way.

If they then refused to pick up the scooter then it would show that they are being extremely unreasonable

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BF I think perhaps you meant .... in any event but that if there is  not a reimbursement in full ..... in the third paragraph.

  • Like 1

My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the Heart. Thank you

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  • 2 weeks later...

Hi all

I sent this to Livewell via their email address on 7th July got an auto response that said i would get a response in 4-6 hrs however it took a week to get to me via email 

Quote

Dear Sir/Madam

Many thanks for your attention in this matter, 

I have no problems with the scooter being collected, I have found someone that is willing to come to my home address to pack the scooter for transport,  however there will be a charge for this and that will be £30 of which I will be looking to claim that back from Livewell, I have had to go to get someone to do the packaging as I am disabled , hence the need for the scooter in the first place, I will however will need to know who and when it will be collected so that I can arrange for it to be packed outside and on the pavement as previously stated have no storage for a boxed and packed scooter.

 

Once the scooter has been collected by your appointed courier, I will expect full reimbursement both for the cost of the scooter and also the cost of the person to pack it for transport at total of £569.10

 

As a gesture of goodwill, I will forgo the cost of packing the scooter provided the scooter is picked up and refunded within the next 10 days. This will mitigate any further loss to Livewell for the scooter, storage fees both for the box and scooter, as well as the packing fee not to mention the interest that will also be claimed should I be forced to take this to court.

 

As for having the scooter inspected by the manufacturers is not an option as the inspection will not be classed as impartial as Devil Bliss Healthcare are the exclusive supplier for Livewell, as stated on your own website.

 

Further to the above, as it has taken me a few days to respond to your Email, I will extend the deadline for me to proceed with County Court proceedings to 21st July 2021 if nothing has been actioned by then, I will procced with the action against Livewell Today Ltd without further notice.

 

When I purchased the scooter from Livewell today Ltd, I was not just buying the scooter, I was purchasing the support offered and the reputation that Livewell Today have, however I feel that Livewell Today have failed to meet my needs of supplying a fully functional working scooter and as such failed in all aspects.

 

I look forward to your swift response

 

this was their response that i got today

any thoughts

Many thanks 

lets

 

Quote
Thank you for your reply to my previous email.
 
Whilst I feel I can understand your situation, paying for somebody to package the scooter for you isn't something we would be willing to cover. 
I feel we have already gone above & beyond what would usually be expected by offering to collect the scooter for further assessment, after an independent technician from HomeServe reported the rust on the scooters electrical components. You have since opposed that report, stating the scooters faults are not down to any rust/corrosion present, which we were happy to address, but I feel we're now being asked to perform tasks that no retailer would be expected to do. We don't pay for a third-party to re-pack an item, neither do we pay for alleged 'storage costs'. I'm very happy to arrange to collect the scooter from you so that a full assessment can be made, however if you're concerned that neither Livewell nor Drive Devilbiss will do this independently then I'd focus our attentions back to the HomeServe report which was initially conducted which states there's rust/corrosion on various metal components, which is resulting in poor performance from the scooter. 
 
I want to be fair here Mr Randall, but I feel that isn't being reciprocated and therefore can't agree with many of the requests you're making of us as a company. 

 

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Well if you're not happy to go along with their suggestion, then I suggest you write to them and tell them that is not a question of fairness, it's a question of their statutory duty.

They are completely wrong. Any retailer who had supplied a defective product would be responsible for any costs associated with returning the item.

Tell them that if they want to mitigate their loss then they should make arrangements to collect the scooter in any event but whatever they decide, failing a reimbursement then your timescale for action stands

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi All 

Sorry BF for not replying sooner to your last response, not been well, 

i have today drafted another email to Livewell

details below, any further thoughts before i send it or is it ok 

 

many thanks 

Lets

Quote
Dear Sir/madam 
Many thanks for your email regarding this faulty scooter. may I apologise for the delay in  getting back to you , I have had a bad spell so not been able to do much. 
 
In your first part of your email you say 
"Whilst I feel I can understand your situation, paying for somebody to package the scooter for you isn't something we would be willing to cover. "
 
May I point out that, you are completely wrong, as until the fault/faults have been identified it is the responsibility of Livewell to cover all associated costs in returning the scooter, this will include not only the courier charges/fees but any costs incurred in making it ready to send.
 
You also state that 
I want to be fair here Mr Randall, but I feel that isn't being reciprocated and therefore can't agree with many of the requests you're making of us as a company.
 
It is not a case of being fair it is a case of Livewell standing up to their  statutory obligations.
 
As for Livewell collecting the scooter, I am more than happy for that, as the scooter has been faulty since October 2020 as first reported and as when the first set of replacement batteries. again I will need to arrange for the scooter to be packed accordingly, unless Livewell can arrange this, again there will be a charge for this as I will not be able to do this my self.
 
The Consumer Rights Act 2015 tells me , I should not loose out financially as a result of the Breach of Contract   and accordingly all costs of returning the item to Livewell should be met by Livewell
 
I will give Livewell a until 12th August 2021 to contact me with the necessary arrangements to collect and reimburse myself for the costs incurred for the scooter and also for the cost of the packing of the scooter.
Failure to make these arrangements will leave me, without further notice, but no choice to issue a County Court Claim for the scooter cost and all other costs incurred including the costs for storage of the scooter and packing box from that date .
 
thank you for taking the time to act on this matter and I trust, we will get this sorted.
 
yours faithfully
 

 

 

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