Car Hub Birmingham LTD T/A Car Central - **My problem was resolved.**

[Paul Walton]

 Hi, hope you can help.

 

I bought my daughter a car two months ago for £3500, paid on a credit card. I should have gone with my gut feeling and walked away, however we had travelled a fair distance. I have asked for a refund or for them to pay for the repair – especially the oil pressure issue. So, far they have not said yes, or no.

 

I have bought another car for her, so either way this one is going. However, morally I couldn’t sell it with a intermittent oil pressure problem.  

 

I suspect they are going to be tricky to deal with.

 

I have listed the points below.

 

• The car was supposed to have a professional valet. It was just jet washed, the interior was still filthy.
• A scratch on the video, I was told it was just the light – it wasn’t.
• The logbook apparently was at Head Office, then in April it had been sent to DVLA, then in May I was told it was lost and I needed to fill in a V62 and pay £25.00. What version is the truth? I still do not have the logbook.
• April, the  Alternator  failed £300, of which £200 was covered under warranty.
• May, fanbelt broken towed to the garage £168
• May -  oil pressure – stop engine warning light. I have not used the car since.
• We were told the cambelt was changed at 65,000 miles . This is incorrect, our local garage has confirmed it has not been changed – but needs to be.
• Water ingress in both headlights and water leaks out of the door. We were told this was because it had been jet washed. Two months on the car has not been jet washed, the lights are full of water.
• On the sales invoice it states 75000 miles it was 78000 miles, this was verified by MOT’s

 

[BazzaS]

You may well become very relieved you paid by credit card, as one of the hurdles associated with enforcing your rights will become easier: enforcement (due to Section 75 protection)

 

This is because (if you HADN’T paid between £100 and £30k by credit card) there would have been the risk of winning a court claim against the dealer but it being a hollow victory if there are no assets to enforce against OR the dealer folds a limited company and resurrects a different company.

 

However, under S.75 protection the credit card company is equally liable as the dealer.

 

So, you need to establish what outcome you want, and if it is realistic - how to achieve it - if need be by court action, naming both the dealer and credit card company as joint defendants. If it gets that far, and your claim succeeds, then the credit card company pays up, and it is up to them to get their money back from the dealer.

 

Your first step will be to write to the dealer, setting out what you want. If that doesn’t work then you speak to your credit card company, followed (if need be) by sending a letter before action / letter before claim to BOTH.

[Paul Walton]

Great thanks very much. I will start the process.

[BankFodder]

Hello Paul, any reason why you're not naming the dealer? Are you trying to protect them?

When you write to them you should make it clear that you are asserting your right under the consumer rights act and you are giving them a single opportunity to carry out a repair or else you want a refund.

If you look at other threads involving unreliable second-hand cars that I've contributed to, you will see that I have often pointed out that we have a lot of people complaining about second-hand cars that they have bought – normally cheaply – but at a great distance.

For some reason or other people spot a car maybe 150 – 200 – 300 miles away and for some reason or other they think this is the only car for them and it is a must-have.

They travel great distances to collect the car, then they end up buying it partly because they've been to so much trouble to go and see it – and they never factor in the cost of having to have the card dealt with if it suddenly demonstrated defect – or even breaks down completely, the cost of having it transported to a reluctant dealer and then maybe having to leave it there for several days when it gets repaired and then having to travel back and pick it up again.

Sounds as if you've done the same thing.
This is not only for your benefit but also for the benefit of other people who read this thread.

Frankly the best thing you can do is to get shot of it – but you will probably have difficulty getting the dealer to give you a refund.

[BankFodder]

 

[Paul Walton]

https://www.carcentralbrum.co.uk/about.php

 

Yes, you were correct too. Buy local.

[BankFodder]

Yes, sorry – a bit like closing the stable door, I know – but I try to get the word around whenever I can.

Anyway, how can we deal with this?

In addition to asserting your right, and on the basis that it's going to be difficult to get a refund, you might want to start getting an independent assessment of all of the defects and the cost of repairing them.

If at the end of the day they refuse a refund – then probably easier to sue for the cost of repairs and then sell the car on.

If you did have to bring an action, you could sue for a refund or cost of repairs – at your option.

[Paul Walton]

They have refused a refund, stating it's after 30 days.

 

However, I think they want me to go away.

 

Repair to fix everything locally £750, I would accept 50% of that then I can sell the car and not feel bad. I would lose about £500 selling it privately - but at least it okay.

 

Or they take the car back and refund me £3000. They are really bad news, they stated it's my fault for buying a car 100 miles away!!

[BankFodder]

Well I have some sympathy with the fact that you shouldn't have bought a car 100 miles away – but that doesn't affect the legalities.

You say that you would be prepared to accept 50% but I don't see why you should have to. And if you are going to attack them then you should attack them for all of it and not simply a reduced amount. It's the same effort. The same logistical problems of bringing an action. The same logistical problems of enforcement.

I'm sure that they don't expect a rapid assertive response – and so I think that's exactly what you should do.

I would send them a letter of claim and demand a refund as they have refused an opportunity to repair. Tell them that if they are prepared to repair it then you are prepared to give them a chance but they will have to make arrangements to collect the car because it is not driveable and if they won't do that then you will start an action within 14 days and without any further notice.

You know how it goes

 

I would add in the letter that if they do opt to repair the vehicle then the repair must be completed within seven days of collection of it or else once again, you will simply sue them.

They need to understand that there is no mucking around here.

I expect this is the kind of company that is used to dealing with people who don't really know their way around and are hesitant about taking action. It's probably about time somebody delivered a lesson

[Paul Walton]

Thanks very much. I have some homework to do, !!

Do I have to get the work do before taking action against them?

 

[BankFodder]

Well you don't know whether they are going to do a refund if you sue them for that.

Frankly I think that you may as well simply go for the refund and see what happens. If there is a hearing then it will be heard at your local court – if it's not online – assuming you get judgement then you can put the High Court enforcement officers in. They don't really look like a company that is going to suddenly go away.

I think I would simply write to them and tell them that you want to repair but they will have to collect the car and they have seven days to do it – or you want a refund in which case there will also have to arrange to collect the car and that if they refuse then you will see them in the County Court.

If they refuse the repair then they have given up their entitlement under the consumer rights act to carry out a single repair and so the only option will be for them to make the refund.

I think once you can show the court that you gave them the opportunity under the 2015 Act to carry out repair and they refused, the court will be happy to give you a judgement in favour of a refund.
Where is the car now? It seems to me that if the car is not working then you could reasonably start levying a storage charge as well.
You would add interest to the judgement sum and with storage charges you might well come out at four grand.

Of course bear in mind that there is always a slight risk that they might have some way of saying that their assets belong to somebody else and there is nothing to enforce against – but if that is the view that they will take, then although you may not be able to recover your court costs, you won't of lost anything more in at least you will have tried.

Presumably they have a forecourt with cars on it et cetera. They aren't working out on the street or keeping their cars in the car park
 

[BankFodder]

I think I would spell out the timeline for them.

I think I would get in 14 days or else you will sue. Tell them that the 14 days give them enough time to collect the vehicle, to repair it within seven days and then to return the vehicle and this means that if you do not have a fully working vehicle back at your address by the end of the 14 days then you will simply go ahead and issue.

Tell them that this is not subject to any discussion or negotiation. Tell them that if they refuse or if they simply failed to respond, this will be taken as an indication that they are giving up their entitlement to carry out a repair and it will be on that basis that you will be suing for a full refund plus interest plus also at the expiry the 14 days you start levying a storage charge of, say, £10 per day (I feel that this is a very modest amount for the storage of a vehicle).

[BazzaS]

BF : bought on credit card, within the limits allowing S.75 liability.

 

Any County Court claim (if it got that far!) should be with the credit card co. as a joint defendant.

 

Enforce (if need be!) against the c c co. & let them seek indemnity against the dealer.

 

The c c co. may well settle before then.

 

The hurdle isn’t enforcement here, but showing liability / obtaining judgement.

[Paul Walton]

Thank you all very much. I will raise the points and take action.

[BankFodder]

I don't think there's any need to involve the credit card company at the moment. No point in making them an adversary as well.

Get a judgement and then if the judgement can't be enforced, claim against the credit card company. If there is a judgement then credit card company won't cause you any trouble.

[BankFodder]

Can you give us an update on this story please.

We had a complaint from the dealer in question and I have edited some language to which they have objected.

[Sayitasitis]

We were alerted to this thread and it’s contents, hence us contacting you today with reference to the derogatory comments about our company. We take the accusations and the comments made by Paul Walton very seriously as we are a reputable company and we are also a member of the Motor Ombudsman.

Firstly Paul Welton was not our customer, the slanderous comment he posted which you have now removed has been screen shot and sent to

our solicitors, along with the inaccurate details he has posted on this thread.

Bank Fodder - your comments about it’s about time someone delivered a lesson? 
You have read a version of events, you do NOT know the full facts.

A lesson learnt maybe to arm

yourself with the full facts, just because we sell used car does not make us dodgy, does not make us the epitome of dodgy car dealers.

Maybe asking for proof of what’s being posted to ensure it’s accurate and not embellished! 

These threads can be very useful, but equally dangerous and we take the accusations very seriously 

Please be aware, the customer had purchased the car 5 months previously.

The date of Paul Walton’s first post on this thread is the date that he first emailed us about an issue with the car…..

I note from his first post he set the scene that he suspected we would be ‘tricky’ to deal with ……. With nothing to back that up with.

The update you have requested I can answer for you, the customer was paid £300 by ourselves, as a gesture of goodwill.

I hope that clears up some of the inaccuracies, general statements, and conclusions that have been jumped to.

Regards

Car Hub Birmingham 

 

[BankFodder]

Thanks for this clarification. It will be interesting to see if Paul comes back and makes his own comments.

Just to be clear – certain comments have been edited out, not to hide them – but simply to remove comments which might be offensive or discourteous.

Very happy that you have screenshots. Good idea.

[Sayitasitis]

Bank Fodder, call it what you like, editing, hiding, removing, they were slanderous, unjustified and should never have been left posted on this thread.

More alarmingly is that it would appear you work for this platform, commented on them and have left them posted!!

Equally the fire has been fueled with some of your comments!

We work closely with the Motor Ombudsman and Trading Standards for a reason….. we do things legally and correctly.

Cars fail, new cars, used cars, it’s a fact of life.

I await your response to my email earlier today also please.

 

[BankFodder]

As far as I know all your emails have been responded to.

Very pleased to hear that you do things legally correctly. Many second-hand car dealers don't

[Sayitasitis]

A very generalised sweeping statement that is also very dangerous.

I note you have chosen not to comment on my comments about you working for this platform, and commenting on the slander that was posted, whilst allowing it to remain on the thread.

It would appear you were very quick to give advice based on half truths, and also state and I quote…. It’s about time someone delivered a lesson -

you also fuelled this thread against our company, whilst also asking for the company to be named and then you changed the name of the thread which is how this was picked up on Google.

You have a responsibility if you are hosting an open thread to be visible to monitor what is being posted.

 

As I said we have now taken this legal therefore require a response to my last email.

 

 

[Paul Walton]

My comments still stand. Furthermore I have copies of all the emails from myself or daughter to the dealership.

I don't think they would help your case.

 

[BazzaS]

If you have “taken it legal”, you might consider asking your legal advisers to help you avoid confusing slander and libel, if your posts are going to use those terms……

 

you stated “slander was posted”.

Was the (alleged) defamatory comment written or spoken?

(Unless, of course, speech was quoted in writing….. where your legal advisors might struggle to decide if it was more likely slander or libel … [If false, likely to cause really serious harm, and meeting all the other components required by the Defamation Act, in the absence of any of the defences therein……..]

 

 

BF : s.5 of that Act gives website operators a defence in many circumstances……

Edited November 11, 2021 by BazzaS

[Sayitasitis]

Bazaa S….thanks for your comment, as I said, we have contacted our solicitors regarding the written

posts on the thread, we will leave it to them to pursue.

 

[Paul Walton]

For clarity, the emails I refer to were to the dealership. 

Now I could post them, but I may be committing slander or libel even defamation or all of the aforementioned!