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    • If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.
    • I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.   Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.   [ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]
    • Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:   19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include: ... iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold] Victims' Right to Review Scheme | The Crown Prosecution Service WWW.CPS.GOV.UK   I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.   If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.   I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...   [Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]
    • @Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .   Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler.    He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.   You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.   My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed    I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 
    • I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.   I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.     But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.   One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it.    (I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)   Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS   I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.   I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.   One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?
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Hermes lost my package


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I was going to send this back

 

Good afternoon Ilyas,

 
As stated previously in my letter of claim dated the 25th of May, under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act of 1999, I have the right to claim this compensation directly with yourselves. You have again denied me this right.
 
Tomorrow the 8th of June will mark the 14th day for you to try and resolve this.
 
If Hermes have not issued me a total refund of £161 by close of play tomorrow I will be going ahead on the 9th of June and opening a case with the small claims court to recover the funds that way.
 
Regards
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Okay I've had a look at it – and that's fine.

Sorry about the delay but I was using a device and I couldn't read it properly and I wanted to doublecheck.

 

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Well they're certainly sticking to their guns. I'll make the claim through money claim tomorrow.

 

Dear ,
 
Thank you for getting in touch with us regarding parcel xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx,
 
I am sorry that you are not happy with the response unfortunately, as this was sent through Packlink and not Hermes directly you would need to contact them for a claim.
 
I do apologise for the inconvenience caused.
 
Kind Regards
 
Sarah Gregson
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Dear Sarah

You know and I know that under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 that I have full third party rights to sue you instead of Packlink.  
If you don't know this then you better have a word with somebody about your staff development because you should know.
If you do know then shame on you for trying to pull the wool over the eyes of your customers.
I'll be issuing proceedings tomorrow

Good luck

 

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This is the last response from them. I'm just about to write up the short statement required on money service, can you read it over before I send it BankFodder?

 

Good Afternoon
 
Thank you for getting in touch regarding the recent parcel delivery reference xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
 
My name is Tasawar and I respond to complaints on behalf of the Executive Office. I have been asked to follow up your complaint in the absence of my colleague.
 
Firstly, I would like to start by offering my apologies on behalf of Hermes upon hearing that your recipient has not received the parcel.
 
Can I please advise as per your contractual agreement you will need to raise this matter further with Packlink as your contractual agreement is with them and not Hermes. Hermes is in a contractual agreement with Packlink who contracted us to complete this delivery.
 
As you have advised that you will be taking further legal action all future correspondence will need to be made in writing from your legal team to the below address.
 
Legal department
Hermes Parcelnet Ltd
Capitol House
1 Capitol Close
Morley
LS27 0WH
 
I would like to advise I will now be closing down this complaint and allow for you to proceed further via the legal team.
 
Again I sincerely apologise for any inconvenience caused.
 
Kind regards,
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Yes, issue the claim – but everything should have been prepared by now especially the particulars of claim.

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Apologies I wasn't sure if I was to use Money Claim or not being in Scotland but after looking into it as they're based in England I can use Money Claim.

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Do I need to put any further details than this BankFodder?

 

Hermes incident ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Parcel ref: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

On the 25/04/2021 I sold an Xbox One S to the value of £161 on eBay and used Packlink to send the item via Hermes.

 

The package was picked up from the collection point and scanned by Hermes, after this point I no longer received any updates.

 

01/05/2021 I contacted Packlink and they advised I should submit a lost item claim, I submitted this with Packlink on the 04/05/21.

 

06/05/21 Packlink contacted me to advise the item had been deemed as lost and that I would only receive standard compensation (£20) as I had not paid for the additional compensation.

 

12/05/21 I then contacted Hermes directly to request full compensation of the loss of the package as they had not fulfilled their contractual obligation of delivering the package.

 

13/05/21 they contacted me to say after an extensive search of the depot the package could not be found.

 

15/05/21 Hermes called me and advised they hadn’t actually searched the depot and would do so.

 

19/05/21 I was contacted again advising after an extensive search they could not find the item.

 

25/05/21 I issued a letter of claim to Hermes for a total refund of the £161 for the loss of the item.

 

26/05/21 Hermes contacted me to advise they would do another search of the warehouse.

 

07/06/21 Hermes declared that they had received no response from the hub team and that the package was deemed lost.

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The claimant used the defendant's delivery service to send an item value £161 to a UK address. Defendant' s reference number XXX. The defendant lost the item. The claimant is suing on the basis of the Contracts (Rights of Third Party) Act 1999 as a beneficial third party. The court is invited to exercise its powers under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 to examine the fairness or otherwise of the defendant's terms and conditions with particular reference to their requirement that it is the customer who must purchase insurance to protect themselves against the defendant's own negligence or criminality of their employees.   The claimant seeks reimbursement of £161+ £XXX delivery costs plus interest.

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hey Bankfodder, just an update. Hermes acknowledged my claim and said they would defend the claim on the 16th of this month, still heard nothing from them, I think they have 28 days to file a defence so I’m sure they’ll wait til as late as they can.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Hey Bankfodder, I've got my notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track as Hermes has defended the claim, I'm fine with everything else on the N180 form (ticked yes for mediation) the only problem I have is the fact that it's asking for a local county court, but I'm in Scotland and we don't have county courts. Do you have any advice?

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I'm putting up a call to my site team colleague @Andyorch

 

Please will you put up the defence in PDF format. It's probably the same as the rest of them but you never know.

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Okay thanks. The usual rubbish trying to pass the buck onto pack link even though they are fully aware of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.

Hermes usual abuse and unfair treatment of their customers and as usual simply exploiting our excellent County Court service which comes them free of charge in order to frustrate your legitimate claim.

Stick by your guns.

When it goes to mediation, stand your ground. Read up the mediation stories on this sub- forum and let us know when you get the mediation date

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Yeah I did feel like they're just trying to spin it out as much as possible to see if I'll drop it but there's no chance of that. As much as I'd like to get my money back it's more about the principal of it and the fact they think they can get away with it.

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the only problem I have is the fact that it's asking for a local county court, but I'm in Scotland and we don't have county courts.

 

On the DQ N180...leave it blank  MCOL will allocate it to the defendants court ...I assume you have no desire to attend and offer your evidence pursuant to CPR 27.9

 

Its important you submit your evidence with a cover note once you get the courts directions and refer to CPR 27.9 that you will not be in attendance but will rely on papers alone.

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.9

 

 

Andy

 

 

.

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