Axa refusing to act

[Argyll]

The cost I provided was for new items. This was requested by Axa. It will obviously be a lot less for replacement items. It's difficult estimating the value of things if I can't find them on sale second hand. 

The lock up is about 600m from my home as the crow flies. I do not have insurance on the lockup. ironically my own home insurance is with Axa

Many of the items on that list were removed by the specialist asbestos removal company so impossible to inspect although I do have some photographs of the large items. The smaller items were bagged up inside the lockup and removed so I only saw red plastic bags removed. A list was provided by the company of items removed. 

I have no idea what insurance the Gardener has. He promised he would provide this information to me but never did. Then he just ignored my calls and letters. I found out the name of his insurer  through his insurance broker.

[Ethel Street]

So the lock up had asbestos roofing panels?

 

And a specialist/qualified asbestos  removal company  said that as a result of the gardener putting his foot tthrough the asbestos roofing your property was contaminated by asbestos and had to be destroyed?

 

Who instructed the asbestos removal company to remove and destroy your property? The local council? Are they the landlord/owner of your flat and the lock up?

[unclebulgaria67]

If the lockup garage is connected to your flat in any way and your Home Insurance covers an outbuilding Contents you may be covered. It is not unknown for people living in flats to rent a garage some distance from their flat. 

 

Ask the question of AXA and see whether your Insurance policy with AXA will help or not.

[Manxman in exile]

On 13/05/2021 at 19:02, Argyll said:

... I found out the name of his insurer  through his insurance broker.

 

What?  Isn't that a GDPR breach?

 

On 13/05/2021 at 19:22, Ethel Street said:

So the lock up had asbestos roofing panels?

 

And a specialist/qualified asbestos  removal company  said that as a result of the gardener putting his foot tthrough the asbestos roofing your property was contaminated by asbestos and had to be destroyed?

 

Who instructed the asbestos removal company to remove and destroy your property? The local council? Are they the landlord/owner of your flat and the lock up?

 

The gardener's public liability insurance should cover this - except I don't suppose he has any, does he... ?

 

I'd sue him.

[Argyll]

The lock up is owned by my local Council. I've rented it for the past 10 years or so. It has corrugated asbestos roofing panels which I've recently learned aren't dangerous unless disturbed. Falling through them obviously made them dangerous.

I already tried to seek help through my own insurance at the time of the incident but they weren't interested. 

 

The gardener must have had insurance as Axa accepted liability with the council to have the roof repaired but don't accept liability with me. I'm guessing they wouldn't mess with the councils legal team but see me as someone they can brush off. 

[Manxman in exile]

How do you know Axa accepted liability in respect of the council's roof?  Who told you?

 

If they've accepted liability in respect of the council's property, they should for yours I'd have thought.  (If they've accepted he was negligent getting onto the roof, I don't see the problem.  If it was foreseeable he would fall through the roof - and corrugated asbestos roofs should be marked along the lines of "Fragile - Dangerous - Do not stand on" or similar - then it's equally foreseeable he would damage or contaminate property in the lockup under the roof).

 

If you want to recover your losses I think you'll have to sue him.  See what his insurers do then.

 

See what other posters think.

 

 

[Argyll]

A very good source and that's all I can say on the matter. 

[Manxman in exile]

Unless that source is employed by either Axa or the council, and was involved in the claim, it's difficult to see how anybody would know what happened.

 

would that source provide a witness statement saying that Axa had admitted liability for the roof?

[Argyll]

Mate I've already mentioned I have a recording of my conversation with the gardener who admitted he was standing on the roof of my lockup and fell through. That's admitting liability.

How do I get prices for the damage to my property? Will I have to scour the internet looking for second hand prices? 

Edited August 16, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Manxman in exile]

I think you've misunderstood.  You said that you knew that the insurer had admitted liability and had paid damages to the council.  I asked how you knew that.  The gardener may have admitted to you that "... he was standing on the roof of my lockup and fell through... ", but that is different from knowing that his insurer paid out to the council.  He may, of course, have told you that they paid out, but how reliable is he?

 

I would suggest that once you know his insurer admitted liability for damage to council property, and once you can demonstrate to his insurer that you know that, it will be more difficult for them to refuse liability to you.  Then you need to argue the value of the claim.  You will need to substantiate any amount you claim.  How you do that in your case I don't know

Edited August 16, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[Ethel Street]

1 hour ago, Argyll said:

How do I get prices for the damage to my property? Will I have to scour the internet looking for second hand prices? 

 Yes, basically that's what you have to do. In principle your claim is for what it would it cost you to replace them with second hand items of the same age and condition. 

 

Another way to approach it which may be easier or if you can't find second hand examples for sale is 'depreciated value. How long have you owned the item? How long would it be expected to last? What does a new one cost now? Then if an item would be expected to last 10 years, and you've had it 5 years, and new one would cost £250 now you could value it at 50% of its current new cost, ie £125 in my example. I appreciate that 'how long would it be expected to last?' can be a 'how long is a piece of string?' question often. All you can do is decide on something that most people (judges!) would consider a reasonable assumption. 

 

Valuing things for liability claims isn't an exact science! But generally speaking you only have to be able to provide a reasonable explanation as to why you came up with the value you are claiming, not prove it to the nearest penny.

 

Some things in your list like the strip light tubes I'm guessing were new and unused. In which case you should be OK to value them at their current cost to replace as new.

 

If something is an antique and repairable and wasn't destroyed you'd claim the full cost of repair and be expected to support that with a repairer's estimate/quotation.

[Argyll]

Some of you were asking how I knew the insurers had settled with the council. I couldn't remember but just found an email back in February where the insurer told me.

 

Quote

Good Morning,

 

We have dealt with a claim for damage to the roof and settled this directly with ***** Council. Please could you confirm exactly what you are looking to claim for and provide evidence to support your claim?

 

Kind regards,

 

Edited May 24, 2021 by Argyll

[Argyll]

I've had some progress on this matter.

Axa emailed a few weeks ago informing me they weren't liable for any claim as it was asbestos related and the policy was exempt in their small print. It's a shame they didn't let me know this back in February

However two of my items were damaged due to water ingress not asbestos namely a storage trunk that my GG Grandfather owned and 30 sheep photo frames. I sent them a video I took at the time showing they were soaked. 

 

Back in February they asked to send them weblinks of replacements. I found a storage trunk on the Etsy website with a similar trunk but not the same and of course it has no sentimental value. 

 

They agreed to settle on the two items that were water damaged and asked for weblinks again but the Etsy weblink was now dead. I assume it was sold. I explained this to them. The sheep photo frames cost me £150 a few years ago and were brand new. I can't find the receipt anywhere. 

They emailed this morning with this reply:

 

Quote

Thank you for your email. Please note this is an indemnity policy therefore we must make deductions to reflect the original age/conditions of any items, we have also not been provided with further documentation to support the costs claimed for.

 

I am willing to make a cash offer of £300 in relation to the water damaged items. Please confirm if this is accepted and provide your sort code/account number to enable us to raise payment.

 

As the photo frames cost me £150 they're really only offering me £150 for the storage trunk. Should I accept their offer? Someone told me they probably won't increase their offer before court action. 

Also they're really only giving me second hand value. I was informed for insurance purposes it's new for old.

[BankFodder]

What was the damage that they say is asbestos-related? In what way is the damage related to asbestos? Have you actually looked at their small print to confirm what they have said?

Who informed you that it was new for old? Did you get this in writing? Once again, have you checked the Axa terms and conditions?

[BankFodder]

I just look back over the threaded and I now see that you are talking about the gardeners insurance policy and not your own.

Frankly, for the amount of money that you are being offered – and the. Amount of value you seem to have lost including the shed roof, I would simply get a couple of reliable estimates for the entire damage and then prepare to sue the gardener.
It's up to them if they want to go through their insurance or not. It has nothing to do with you

[Argyll]

I'm taking the Gardner to the small claims court for the damage caused by asbestos. However Axa have agreed to settle for the items not removed for asbestos but damaged due to water ingress.

My question was should I accept their offer or do they typically increase their offer after first refusal or do they tend to be rigid?

Edited August 16, 2021 by dx100uk
unnecessary previous post quote removed

[BankFodder]

You would normally always reject the first offer and insist on a better figure but also, you would need to demonstrate why they have underestimated the value.

As you are preparing to sue the gardener, it seems to me that you want to get everything ready and then tell Axa that as they won't pay the proper value, you will be suing their client and you expect that their client will then require the Axa indemnify him for his loss including court fees.

In terms of suing the gardener, you should certainly sue him for absolutely everything. There is no reason at all why you should be a single penny out-of-pocket

[Ethel Street]

On 17/06/2021 at 14:23, Argyll said:

Also they're really only giving me second hand value. I was informed for insurance purposes it's new for old.

This was discussed earlier in the thread.

 

You don't get 'new for old' when making a third party claim. Only when you you are insuring things under your own policy. Third party claims are dealt with on an "indemnity basis",  ie their second hand value.

 

I recall you said that it wasn't AXA who told you they paid third party claims new for old but an unspecified "insurance specialist". Was that person advising you formally in a professional capacity? Or was it more of a "bloke in a pub" conversation?

[Argyll]

I lodged a claim online in my local sheriff court (Scotland) last month. His last day to respond is next week but he hasn't made any response and I doubt he ever will. I suspect he thinks if he continues to ignore me it will eventually go away. I've seen these programs 'can't pay so I'll take it away' or something like that but as far as I'm aware that only applies to England.

 

If I win my case and I strongly suspect I will how will I go about making him pay?

 

Just bear in mind I'm in Scotland where I don't think we have high court officers or bailiffs. 

 

On 27/06/2021 at 17:51, Ethel Street said:

This was discussed earlier in the thread.

 

You don't get 'new for old' when making a third party claim. Only when you you are insuring things under your own policy. Third party claims are dealt with on an "indemnity basis",  ie their second hand value.

 

I recall you said that it wasn't AXA who told you they paid third party claims new for old but an unspecified "insurance specialist". Was that person advising you formally in a professional capacity? Or was it more of a "bloke in a pub" conversation?

It was someone who works in that field but told me off the record away from work. 

Edited August 16, 2021 by Argyll

[dx100uk]

you have sheriff officers like walker love etc..far more powerful, they can arrest wages, seize whole bank accounts etc etc.

 

was this an SPC claim you raised, how were the papers served by the sheriff officers? in person or by post after failure of P2P contact?

[Argyll]

What's an SPC claim? The lady I spoke to at the court sent the papers. 

[dx100uk]

Simple Procedure Claim 

 

whats the number of the form you filled out 7a?

how big is your claim might be ordinary cause claim

 

 

[Argyll]

Form 3A. Claim around £3700. 

 

ok so that was served P2P by sheriff officers, when and what is his last respond by date.

 

I think the letters were sent by recorded post. The last date of response is August 30th. 

4876438 - Copy.pdf

 

4876553 - Copy.pdf

Edited August 17, 2021 by dx100uk
merge of several posts

[dx100uk]

Back to basics: enforcing a judgment in Scotland | Insights | DLA Piper Global Law Firm

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<p>The aim of a payment action is to recover monies due. Obtaining a positive judgment from the court is just the first step in that process. The...

 

 

 

[Argyll]

Thanks. I'm just filling in form 7a in anticipation they won't respond.