Legal, Will and Probate Enquiries

[honeybee13]

Could you try calling them and asking nicely if it's going to be possible to speak to the consultant?

 

HB

[Yorky55]

lol it takes ages and ages to get through, to start with, one staff member actually hung up on me and my aunt .  Im always polite and  nice. just doesnt get me anywhere!

 

[honeybee13]

That's a shame but I suppose they're under a lot of pressure too.

 

Good Sister suggested PALS for the hospital, who should know their way around the system, are they worth a try?

 

HB

[Yorky55]

Cant get through to ward...again! Maybe think of a Complaint via PALS I dont even know address to contact for the Hospital Social worker! I think it is Durham County Council? so annoying I cant get through to anyone?

[honeybee13]

That's frustrating. Have you found the contact details for PALS at the hospital your Dad's in?

 

HB

[BazzaS]

Call the Consultant's secretary, or (if the clinical team has one) ask the ward to put you through to the team's 'Registrar' (or ST, if they are ST3* or above), to:

 

ask what progress is being made (if asked as a question, it is less likely to be seen as a challenge, but will ensure the Clinical team's Consultant has had the matter raised with them).

You then still have PALS as a later escalation option.

 

* ST = Speciality Trainee. ST1 and ST2 aren't seen as equivalent to the old 'Registrar' Grade, while ST3 and above are ......

[Yorky55]

Ok,  update, I have phoned last couple of days to ward asked to speak to Staff Nurse, they said the consultant would get back to me, they were not sure if they had such an assessment form. I got the name of consultant but its a 2 weekly change over. Last night I gave the SN my address details etc, they said there would be a team meeting this morning and someone would get back to me or if I need to send them COP3.  Low and behold its gone 8 now and nothing.

I am up at crack of dawn at work till early lunch time, its hot Im tired, Im on phone most of day with young brother helping him, so i think Im just about had enough.

They visited dad today, 1 person at time now. still confused pushing food away.

I have worry of the bills mounting up, the repair needed doing etc. Will phone ward tomorow, Ill try to find out secretary of the consultant at Stockton Hospital.

Age UK wasnt really much help, as Im doing everything they sugested already?

Yes a complaint to PALS is next step. Will write to DWP enclose form and explain situation that I cant get anyone to do a ssessment form?

 

[stu007]

Hi

 

After all this you are still being messed about by the hospital I think it is time to make a complaint to PALS for that specific hospital your Dads in.

 

I would also stop contacting the Ward as they are no help at all and as you now know who the Consultant is contact the Hospitals main reception and ask to either speak to that specific Consultant or his Registar and for there specific contact number.

 

 

[Yorky55]

• Ok update.  I have spent the last week or two, trying to get help from the Staff Nurses and Matron, regarding the Consultant or someone to have my dads lack of capacity documented, either their own paperwork or me sending COP3. I

 

• they have informed the consultant looking after my dad, who at this moment is sounding very ill, with medical issues on top of delirium and confusion, he is apparently having blood transfusion bag things. not eating and drinking. I have even spoken to the consultants secretary to explain the urgent matter and to have the consultant contact over the last few days WITHOUT SUCCESS, conversion ended today with its a legal form can I take it into hospital personally, er..I dont drive and Im in Northampton, Hospital is Stockton on Tees. 

 

• the nurses cant help need to speak to consultant!!!!!!! conversation ended with well I will complain to PALS, GMC secretary of Health or whoever......reply was looks like it then?

 

• I have just compiled a 3 page letter [well e mail one] sent to PALS, I will follow up with a written one and to whoever else I can contact.

 

• I need this medical form before I can do anything else with court or appointee

 

• anyone have any ideas cos Im now at my gasping point, wondering why the hell am I taking on all this stress and worry, then I think of my younger brother, and that reminds me why I am doing it and doing it for.

[Good Sister]

Oh Yorky, I'm so sorry you're still having trouble with your dad's hospital.

 

I can't believe they are still being so awkward, I sometimes think they (companies in general, not just hospitals) forget that we put ourselves through this stress and worry not because we want to, or even because we have to, but because we want what's best for our loved ones.

 

Their advice for you to deliver the form in person is at odds with the advice on their own website stating that visits have been suspended due to Covid. I mean, I would understand if someone wanted you to drop off clothes for your dad, but a piece of paper? Which could end up anywhere? That's... crazy.

 

I don't know if the following link is worth a try or whether you've been down this road, but the hospital website has details of all the consultants

Consultants | North Tees and Hartlepool NHS Foundation Trust

WWW.NTH.NHS.UK

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If you want to find out details of our hospital consultants and contact information you can search for them in our A-Z.

obviously you'll know your dad's consultant name, but the phone numbers on there, are they ward ones that you've tried before or do they look different?

 

That said, even if you are more successful with that, definitely still get PALS and as much senior management on board as you can with a formal complaint. You shouldn't have to go to such lengths to get hold of the right people and for the right information, especially at such a stressful time.

 

You point out that you remember you're doing this for your brother and your dad, which is the best approach. I'm sure they, in their own way, know that you are pushing yourself and pushing the hospital for an outcome as you are is because of them.

 

I know it's easy for someone on the internet to say "look after yourself", "do this to help with stress" etc, but if you do feel you need extra help with dealing with your stress/worry, please don't be afraid to seek help from a doctor yourself. A "well" you is the best sort of support for your dad and brother.

 

I wish I could offer more support and I'm sure that if anyone else of the CAG community has any other suggestions, I'm sure they will come here and let you know.

 

[Yorky55]

Hy, UP date.

I e mailed, to PALS at weekend, also follow up with a letter, 

I also have detailed letter ready to send to DWP, for appointee  and court.

 

Just had a phone call from Ward Matron, basically, I have to physically go to the ward, so they can seem in person, before they fill out or sign form. I explained im in northampton, hospital is in Stockton, Id have to have more time off from work, its a long journey as I cant drive.

Question is this the case, or can I do it another way. She gave me her e mail at hospital if I can send the form, whats the point if you still got to physically see me.

 

I spoke to staff nurse this afternoon, dad is very poorly, refuses, food, drink, very dilerious and confused, refuses medication, has IV fluis, rather flat today, pulled out his canulas, she spent 45 mins with him and says very poorly.

 

anyone have any ideas who and what I can do about the roody form, Im ready to give up myself now.

 

[Good Sister]

I would be inclined to send the ward matron a copy of the form to the email address she gave you along with an accompanying message along the lines of:

 

Dear Ward Matron,

 

Thank you for contacting me on 14.06.21 to discuss my father's mental capacity assessment form.

 

You mentioned over the phone that I need to physically hand this form into the ward. However, I pointed out that I live 4 hours away in Northampton and do not have access to private transport to get me to your hospital. I feel that this would require a disproportionate effort to get a form across to yourselves given the current Covid-19 restrictions.

 

Furthermore, I note that your hospital is not accepting visitors at present due to the Covid restrictions so I presume I would need an appointment to see the right person to fill in and sign this important form. Therefore, I do not feel it is unreasonable to ask for a telephone/video call to discuss the form.

 

I have attached a copy of the form ready in anticipation of this virtual meeting. Please contact me by replying to this email or on xxxxx xxxxxx so that a mutually agreed time can be arranged.

 

Kind Regards,

Yorky55.

 

As well as sending it to the Ward Matron, I would also cc PALS and any other relevant email addresses for the hospital you've gathered.

 

I'm sorry that your dad is still in a bad way x

Edited June 14, 2021 by Good Sister
Grammar

[Yorky55]

Ok update,  I just sent e mail with copy of the PALS complaint to COP asking for help and advice, regarding having to travel 6 to 7hrs , i cant drive, someone will have to take me, to hand in a form COP3 to the ward staff, as Matron insists that someone physically sees me

Ive asked in the e mail, if COP can contact matron/ward about form, so I dont have to travel. It will mean time off from work,not paid as its to far to do when finished.

[Yorky55]

Interesting. Good Sister.

 

1] how do I attatch the COP3 form to the e mail. I dont know how to do video call?

 

[Good Sister]

I think you will be waiting even longer for COP to reply to your email.

 

Do you have access to a scanner that you can scan the form over?

 

You don't have to video call if you don't have the means, I just put that as an option. I don't know how to video call either.

[honeybee13]

Yorky, do you have a smart phone?

 

HB

[Good Sister]

Just had a thought, do you have a copy of a blank COP3 saved on your computer, from when you were downloading all the forms?

 

You can type your part of the form and save it and then forward on that version. Might be slightly more work for yourself if you've already handwritten a version, but would save on scanning if that's going to be messy for you.

[stu007]

Court of Protections Forms & Guidance & COP 1 & COP 3 Forms are at the following link: 

 

Court of Protection forms and guidance - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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Court of Protection forms including the COP1 application to make decisions on someone's behalf.

 

 

Form COP1: Apply to make decisions on someone's behalf - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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Use this form to apply for a Court of Protection order, which allows people to make financial and welfare decisions for someone else.

 

 

 

Form COP3: Make a report on someone's capacity to make decisions - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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Use Form COP3 (an 'assessment of capacity') to submit an expert opinion about someone's mental capacity as part of an application to make...

 

 

I fully agree with Good Sister post#38 letter to send to Matron but I would also add

 

As the COVID-19 Restrictions are still in place within your Hospital and the COP 3 Form that I need to be completed by a Medical Practitioner and is freely available to download from the Government's website (PDF Format).   (insert link to the COP 3 Form here then delete this)

 

The COP 3 Form I have completed my side but need the Medical Pracitioner/Consultant to complete the Medical Practitioner side of this form which I can easily email over to yourselves for you to complete those sections and either email it back or post it to myself after completion.

 

There is absolutley no reason why I need to physically deliver this form to the Hospital and find that you insisting that I hand deliver this document due what I have previously explained as unacceptable and require full clarification for this.

[Yorky55]

Hy everyone. Thankyou indeed for all your input. 

Update; Unfortunately I think the decision is now taken out my hands. Have spent the last week in toutch with the Drs and ward staff, we had a call on Friday to say we needed to see dad asap. A 8 hr trip there and back, very tiring especially when I cant drive. Spent several hrs with dad. left at about 1am. He is in a side room now, very ill. Just sleeping and no recognition at all. We got a call latter part of Sunday to agree to EOL care, start of Palliative care and removal of the drips, other than a glucose one for comfort. There is very little they can do for dad now. WE just have a matter of days now.

 I will now have to focus my attention on the support and care of my younger brother and the home.

I guess the ne,xt stage is Probate. Do I get a form or contact them when time comes, I think it is going to cost over £200 and could take up to 8 weeks.

 

[stu007]

Hi 

 

I know this must be such a difficult time for you and the family and you do have my sympathy.

 

You have done a fantastic job in dealing with this in the present circumstances just make sure and look after your well being as well during this which I know is difficult.

 

As for Probate have a wee look at this link:

 

Applying for probate - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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Find out if you need to apply for probate to deal with the estate of someone who’s died. Discover how to apply for probate or letters of administration...

 

[Yorky55]

OK UP DATE. As of today, I have been notified that the hospital/ward, are wanting my father discharged into a nursing home type place. They are no longer doing any medical intervention, he is on EOL Palliative care, dad no longer eat or drink but they say he needs 24hr nursing care. 

Trying to get through to ward and will have to find one.

If dad is having NHS care in hospital, then if he goes into nursing home, is that considered continuation of care, so wont have to pay or do we have to pay or is it same as care home, we have 6 weeks before paying?

They expected dad to not survive the week, but looks like he may be longer, but dont think it will be like weeks?

Any suggestions please

[honeybee13]

Hello Yorky.

 

I'm so sorry you're at this stage and am sending you a virtual hug if you'll let me.

 

Did your father ever get a social worker? I can't remember if he's considered to be self-funding but even if he is there could be someone to help him. My mother was self-funding but her area in Somerset had social workers who helped her and then me.

 

I found them through AgeUK, maybe you could talk to them [again]?

 

Stay strong,

 

HB

[Yorky55]

hy honeybee13  thanks for virtual hug. Everything is a nightmare at moment. Dad did have an apointed SW, but hes been in hospital for last few weeks, I believe he isnt classed as self funding! he was never in care home longer than 6 weeks. I agreed with the Hospital DR, over week ago, for EOL and palliative care to start all the tubes and medical intervention to stop, he isnt eating and drinking. will have to contact SW on what happens, need to find the nursing home closer to where my brother lives, Dad was expected to go this week [pass away] because of this, my applications for court access to finances etc, ive put on hold. As the will and probate will kick in, cant see dad lasting another week or so?

 

[honeybee13]

Well I can't say how it works where your Dad is, but my mother's SW helped me to find a care home when my mother was discharged from hospital.

 

Which council area is it please?

 

HB

[stu007]

Hi Yorky

 

If your Dads Social Worker is in Hospital themselves during this contact both the Social Work Department and explain urgent situation and that you urgently require a new Social Worker appointed to your Dad and also the Hospital have a Social Work Team that should be liasing with you as well due to the pallative care and possible move to nursing home.

 

I don't sat this lightly but you may need to be very firm with both about your Dad EOL to sort this out to move him to a nursing home with pallative care and the urgency also at the same time you ask them about funding for this so you know.