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Power of Attorney or Deputy


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help please. not sure if this is right place to post. any advice ;

Elderly father in early 80s, doesnt fully understand, cant reason or think ar acknowlege in relation to financial and household affairs. after weeks in hospital due to stroke, now 2 weeks in care home for assesment etc. I need to be able to sort his DWP, bills, repairs at his home etc, what do I do.

POA may be to late if he has to agrre to one before starting, Deputy may be, but its seems a long and tricky process, need something done noe especially within 4 weeks.

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Hi. I've moved your thread to the General Legal subforum.

 

I'm sorry to hear about your father. Have the care home been able to offer any advice?

 

The people I found very helpful when my mother had dementia problems were the local AgeUK, who will have seen this kind of issue before. You could ring them in the morning and see if they have any suggestions for you. I expect people here will be along over the course of the day too.

 

Could you tell us what part of the UK you're in please?

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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You may have seen this already but here's information from the government.  I believe it doesn't apply to Scotland.

 

As you say, it's a lengthy process and sadly I don't know how to speed it up. Maybe others here will and I would certainly speak to AgeUK, as I said.

 

https://www.gov.uk/become-deputy

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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hy, im northamptonshire, family are in Hartlepool area up North. I spoke to Age uk, need to ring tommorow to speak to specialist. Deputyship, well Ive exhausted this option, made loads of notes, its not financially possible, it really is hundreds and hundreds if not into thousands to, apply, hearing, asses, anual fees its just  stupid. 

 

Im still waiting for the named person who will be dads allocated community social worker. Im still waiting for assesment? 4 weeks left then weekly costs of over £1000 a week will have to be paid by dad.

 

Im visiting him next week. 30 min appointment. over 4 hrs drive there and 4 hrs drive back in 1 day. This is to look at state of brother, bungalow and more important seed dad, in case anything happens and I wont have seen him.

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A social worker could be a big help, my mother's was.

 

Has your dad been formally assessed as not having capacity to sign a LPA?

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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thats what Im waiting for, hes been in home 2 weeks, a SW was contacting the home  as they dont visit, no reply from them yet. waiting to find out who allocated SW is. he ha sonly 4 weeks left, then after that will have to pay full costs, it will eat into the money/inheritence, but also have to have SW visit and asses home and brother before they think of sending him home

forgot to ask, did you get POA or LPA then, with the SW helping

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My mother had already signed EPAs as they used to be called, for health and finances so I didn't have the problem that you do. There were other problems though and I had a lot of help from the social worker and from AgeUK.

 

Keep asking the professionals, see what they come up with.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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In terms of DWP,  you can be made appointee, for benefit purposes so that you can deal with that side of things going forward, at present the form is filled over the phone. But it is not recognised by banks etc, i have heard that some do but generally its not for any other purpose. You can then change address/change where money is paid to. 

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Hello Yorky55,

 

Firstly I am so sorry for your situation, it is a lot to cope to with and it is very overwhelming. Sadly, having been through the same with my dad since late 2019 and having no Power of Attorney in place, this is what I can offer in terms of advice (warning: long post alert):

 

Firstly, whatever happens with having to cover care fees, his bills etc... that will all have to wait. That will be the standard response you will need to give to anyone who asks for money - "I'm sorry, my father is in hospital, I am applying to be his attorney/deputy, I don't have access to his funds."

 

This will definitely not be the first time that the care home or your father's social workers have heard it and they should try to find as many ways to be as accommodating as possible. As for bills, if there's direct debits in place for utilities and such, these should continue to go out of his bank as normal. IF you wanted to pay off some accuring debts or sort out urgent repairs on his home, you should be able to claim that money back once you are approved as attorney/deputy.

 

Your social worker may mention something called NHS Continuing Healthcare, where the NHS will cover some or all of his care funds depending on his needs. It is perhaps unlikely that they will cover everything, but they may pay for a few weeks complete care whilst assessments are taking place and they may then pay towards part of his care if it's determined that he needs full time nursing care.

 

Next, I notice that your father has an assessment to see whether he has the mental capacity to do a POA. As you quite rightly point out, it is quicker cheaper and easier to do a POA, but if it is decided that he can't complete it, then you will need to go down the Court of Protection route. Of course, it is more expensive, but I'll break it down for you so you can see who should pay what:

 

The initial £365 application fee - that will need to come from yourself (or whoever is applying to be deputy) when you send the initial application.

Hearing costs - may not be applicable. Only if someone comes out of the woodwork and disputes you becoming a deputy will there be a proper hearing. Otherwise it is conducted without you being present.

£320 annual supervision fee - this will come out of your father's money, it will be pro-rotaed in the first year, and is not usually payable until late March/early April.

£100 new deputy fee - this will come out of your father's money at the point shortly you are appointed deputy.

Security bond fee - the total amount is dependant on the size of your father's estate, but is payable over 5 years. As a guide, I'm paying just £50 a year (just over £250 total) so my father's estate is insured to the tune of £75k.

 

Of course, if you get solicitors involved, then yes, it will cost significantly more, but you can do the paperwork yourself and deal with all matters yourself. More stressful doing it yourself?: yes. Worth it?: yes.

 

If you apply to the COP, you will note that it's £365 to apply for financial/property deputy and £365 for health/welfare deputy. I would suggest that if you, your family, your dad's carers are all on the same page regarding his health needs, not to apply for this particular court order. COP only really tend to award those where there are disputes over someone's care and there is an urgent care need, so that could be wasted money - focus on the finances so you can get your father's affairs in best order you can.

 

Now, you can apply to the COP to fast-track a specific request e.g. to pay care fees. However I find that this can get messy and the Court tend to ignore this if you also want to make a general application to take over your father's finances.

 

A straight-forward case where there's no objections from your family for you to be the deputy takes about 3-4 months. Now, even during these Covid times, I applied in April 2020 and was approved in August 2020, so the COP are still working. My order did come with the string attached that I would need to get a separate order to sell his home, which I'm still waiting on 🤨 but otherwise I've got his day-to-day finances in order.

 

For now, please use this time to perhaps gather your father's financial info - bank statements, pension provider(s), utility firms, local council details etc - to get an idea of what your father's estate is worth and who he deals with. I don't know about POA applications, but on a COP application, you will need to declare as much knowledge of your father's financial background as you can, plus you will need to know who to send out your shiny attorney/deputyship order to once you've gotten that far.

 

Hopefully, that provides if not some comfort to you, then at least some help on what might happen. I wish you and your father best of luck, I will try to keep an eye on this thread though.

 

Please also try to look after youself as well.

 

GS

x

 

 

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Any pearls of wisdom that I give on the CAG forums is based on previous experiences and knowledge I have gained from being on these forums.

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HY wont be on line for few days, cant have internet up north. Ive doen some researching.  In dads will the property is left in trust to brother. also if dad is less than 52 errkd in care home its classed as temp. yes he will have to pay full costs. But as his son got to live in home, then am I right in saying I do not need to put the home as part of dads caotal for financial assesment. this willbe done 17 may so need to get facts right. hope to get POA weekend if not game over.

 

 

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Hello again Yorky55,

 

Thanks for the update.

 

Regarding whether your brother can stay in the home, please take a look at the following link and check whether any of these circumstances apply to your brother:

 

https://www.ageuk.org.uk/information-advice/care/paying-for-care/paying-for-a-care-home/do-i-have-to-sell-my-home-to-pay-for-care/  

 

It all sounds messy and complicated, but we will do our best to help you with advice and steps to take once you are ready/able to update us.

 

Take care in the meantime.

 

GS

x

Any pearls of wisdom that I give on the CAG forums is based on previous experiences and knowledge I have gained from being on these forums.

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