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    • Thank you both for your detailed replies. Yes, I agree, what OPS are doing is tantamount to theft, but in my case, I fear it's legalised theft. I can't find that many other OPS cases in this forum, but of those that I did find, including those mentioned in the news articles paid online, all had actually paid for their parking ticket, but were "fined" in spite of that. They clearly have a much better case than I do.   My one and only previous experience in the small claims court has taught me that it's not about what is fair and reasonable, all the judge cares about is the law, and what's in the contract. Dx, I'm sorry, I don't understand your comment above, and I still fear that I am (regrettably) legally in the wrong.   Dave, you admit that I would have to put in a lot of time fighting this case, and I'm thinking that really, life is too short, and that time is worth more to me than the £120. Nonetheless, I would contest it on principle, if I thought I had a realistic chance of winning.   I take your point about not getting a CCJ if you pay the "fine", but the stakes are escalating, surely. If I lose, I will have to pay the court costs as well as the £200 fine, won't I?
    • If you go to use a mediation service then you should use the one supplied by the County Court. To suggest ADR when first of all you have no idea how it is organised, who would provide it, how much it costs et cetera is simply asking for trouble. There is a motor traders trade association which will provide ADR – but don't forget that by and large they represent the trade. The fact you are asking whether or not conciliation services are offered free of charge shows that you don't know how it works so why on earth are you even bringing it into the equation? You shouldn't be considering anything without understanding what it is you are considering or proposing. Suggesting ADR immediately suggests that you are prepared to sacrifice some of your rights.  I don't see why you feel that you have to show some kind of goodwill after all the treatment that you have suffered – but on the other hand, we have understood by now that this is a man that you want to protect. Bless. Suggesting ADR without having a court process underway means that you giving out signs that you are still not fully committed to bringing a legal action – and you have demonstrated that since January by sending three threats of legal action and not following any of them up. By suggesting ADR again, you are going down the same path – why should anybody take it seriously.   On FastTrack, don't forget, you will only end up paying the other side' s legal bills if they win. On the basis of what you say, that looks like a very outside chance. If you did go on the fast track then you would also recover your own litigant in person costs at 18 quid an hour. Not much – but then it delivers an extra slap to your secret friend. Also, you would be able to claim interest at 8% per year so you would be looking at at least two years interest on 10 grand – 800 quid a year. Plus by the time this is all over, you could be looking at 300 quid or so in litigant in person costs. But of course the fast track is a risk that you will have to take. Check the figures I have put in the proposed draft, I calculated that it's about a year and 1/2 you haven't had the vehicle that you need to make it precise – at least within a month. I suggest that you post up here before you send it off.  
    • Believe for fraud, there has to be intent.      If there are no reaonable grounds for believing the person trading the watch knew it was fake, then I would think Police would not be willing to investigate.  And the person concerned is now deceased, so not sure how it coulld be investigated.    The Insurers would be expecting you to make a report to Police for them to consider it as a possible fraud.  And the Police are going to want you to explain why you believe it was fraud.     I agree with the brokers that it will be considered a trading risk.  The watch should have been checked by a Rolex authorised dealer, before the trade was done.
    • Thanks for the quick response, and for the suggested wording. I will review and amend accordingly today, and send back for your final glance.    I kept the ADR in as a way of showing that I would happy to discuss with mediation, and if an acceptable offer was put forward then of course we would consider it. As he hasn't responded to the offer of ADR so far, its unlikely he will to this anyway. Aren't some of the conciliation services offered free?    Do you have it in writing from him that he refuses to tell you the location of the vehicle? Or why he moved it? - I don't have it in writing from him, but i have confirmed it back in writing to him following a phone conversation. He moved it as he does not carry out repairs to vehicles at his garage, so had been moved to a "specialist" to carry out whatever work needed to be done.    And in regards to suing him for less - the way I see it is, if we had the car at home, in working order, and we were to sell it privately, we would probably be looking to sell it for the current market value which was about £8-9K last time I looked. I just don't know if its worth the hassle of going about the £10k mark, and it go on fast track, and then potentially am faced with paying his legal bills etc
    • Sure...Ill take a look later or this evening.
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Southeastern - Fare Evasion since July 2020


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I’ve been a bit stupid - same as most people, my wages have been cut and I have only been part paying my fare since July 2020.


Today, I get pulled over by BTP (I think, they had a shiny badge at least’, asked where I got on, I lied, got asked again and was then honest from then on.

 

I was left with a ‘caution’ and was told that she was referring the case to Southeastern and to await to hear from them.

 

First of all, I’d like to do everything in my power to settle out of court for obvious reasons. Tips on wording my letter of response would be great. Also, does anyone know if they do payment plans? I have 0 savings so won’t be able to pay a large amount as a one off payment.

 

Secondly, out of curiosity, how do they know how to target? She virtually knew everything about me before I answered questions!

 

(Yes yes I know, it was stupid behaviour!)

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how did you evade since july...not yours/fake pass?

 

eitherway you await the letter, they have 6mts.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for your reply.

I have to jump on two different trains and only bought tickets for the second leg.

Whoever it was who pulled me aside said that I’m a ‘small fish’ compared to other people they catch but it still didn’t fill me with the greatest confidence!

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Hi.

 

Well obviously you need to start paying for the whole of your journey from now on.

 

I think all you can do is wait for the letter from Southeastern. Once it arrives, let us know what they're saying and we'll advise you what to do next.

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Great thanks!

I have literally paid full fare from tonight onwards - put the fear of god in me walking back into the station!

I kept looking over my shoulder expecting the BTP to jump out at me!

I know what I’ll be seeing in my nightmares tonight...😂

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well as there will be no records? via looking at previous pass use for instance had you used one.. ?

this will simply be a case of possibly just having to pay the missing fare.

you don't often see them going any further for what is a single ticket misuse or failure to purchase issue

you might not here anything at all.

 

the fact you've done this since july matters not.?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the reply - we shall wait and see!

It’s all logged on a Southeastern Key Card - do you think that makes a difference?

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Posted (edited)

Wait and see what the letter shows.

 

by “She virtually knew everything about me before I answered questions!” was this in the style of:

 

a) “What is your name”, “Jegan”, “Yes, I knew that”, or

b) “Jegan, how do I spell your name correctly”?

 

b) would suggest more of a targeted RPI operation, but the letter (especially if it mentions multiple offences or “taken into consideration” offences) will make things clearer.


As there will be a “key card” log of your ticket purchases : I’m not so sure that it’ll be a case of “the use since July 2020 won’t matter”.

All they’d need to do is ask you (under caution) “have you been living near [your true starting station] since July 2020”


Is your true starting station manned / Does your true staring station have barriers?

Edited by BazzaS
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Sorry, I meant that she seemed to knew exactly where I had got on and how long I had been doing it for - I wasn’t even sure myself when I had started not paying full fares!

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i severely doubt they had any idea how long, they just don't do that kind of backtracking on individual passengers...more probably carefully worded questions and you fell for them..but it doesn't really matter if you admitted to 'whatever', they won't have evidence of those i bet my hat.

 

more probably , as bazza says, its been discovered and a known issue with lots of people doing it since xx date and it was an operation to stop the 'regular' offenders.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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I think I might have dodged it a bit - ‘she said have you been doing it since July and I answered with ‘I can’t remember, I think since last year.’

Tried to keep that answer relatively vague.

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i would thus suspect that from july there has been some kind of network infrastructure 'loophole', be it by no barriers or WHY in xxx place to prevent it.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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That makes a lot of sense, the barriers were up more often than not.

Looks a bit like they’ve deliberately led people into the same kind of situation as I’m in. 
 

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, jegan11 said:

 

Looks a bit like they’ve deliberately led people into the same kind of situation as I’m in. 
 


What? They deliberately enticed you to evade your fare?

 

Good luck with aiming for an out of court settlement if you use that approach / show that attitude.

I can bet the RPI’s notes reflect you initially lied about your starting station and that when challenged you admitted the deceit.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-37494501

 

He tried to run off when challenged ...

Edited by BazzaS
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I know I was in the wrong - I’m not denying that nor would I not apologise for it.

It just made a lot of sense.
I am more than painfully aware that I am in the wrong and it has been a stressful day worrying about it.

it is most definitely not something I’d do again, please don’t think that that is the attitude I currently take or will take when replying to the letter.

I was just acknowledging that I can see how my situation happens. I never excused it. And I also understand that they have to recoup lost fares. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

I have received my letter, I haven’t yet written a response. I’m going to draft it tonight.

Any advice is greatly appreciated thank you.

photo.pdf

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Hi.

 

See what the others think but as I read the letter, they aren't giving you much of a clue about what they're alleging.

 

There's a great poster here who we haven't seen recently, Old-CodJA, who always says that you don't need to tell the train company anything they don't already know but I'm not sure how it would work in your case at the moment.

 

Please post up your first draft and we'll help you to work on it. :)

 

HB

Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Thanks honeybee13!

This is my first draft, I think it definitely needs work:

 

‘Dear Prosecutions Manager,

 

I would first of all like to start my response by saying how deeply sorry I am.

I realise my actions were wrong and it is in no way representative of how much respect I have for Southeastern and their staff. They have been really profession throughout the whole pandemic and have always treated passenger safety as of the utmost importance.

I am ashamed of the poor decisions I have made. I’d like to try and explain my circumstances at the time I first evaded my fare but I understand that I am not alone in my situation and it doesn’t change the fact that I have been wrong in the choices I made.

I was placed on furlough and have been on furlough since April 2020. I have only been taken off furlough by my employer in the last month. I was recalled into work at the end of May 2020 and I struggled to pay the full train fare due to my reduced wages and as a result made a great error in judgement and started part paying my fares after being back at work for a little while.

I was so ashamed of myself when I was stopped by the Railway Enforcement Officer and since then, I have ensured I have paid full fare for every journey I have made.

Although my financial situation has recently improved, both my parents have had worsening health in the last month or so and due to this stressful situation, I would really like to settle this out of court if possible with a contribution towards the administration costs as well.

I’d like to end this letter by saying that that I understand the gravity of my actions and will never travel without a valid ticket in future. I thank you for taking the time to read my response.’

 

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god NO!!

 

you are telling them it's more than one event,,, don't

 

esp the bit about being furlonged so long ago.

just refer to a recent return to work on low pay etc.

don't give any timings away

 

it says an incident' so you admit to that incident that due to cut in wages due to covid etc, and how very sorry you are etc.

how a criminal prosecution would kill future employment

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks for the feedback dx100uk!

Are there any paragraphs I should keep?

I have rewritten the furlough part.

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I’ve tweaked it but I think the first paragraph might be too grovelly:

 

Dear Prosecutions Manager,

 

I would first of all like to start my response by saying how deeply sorry I am.

 

I realise my actions were wrong and it is in no way representative of how much respect I have for Southeastern and their staff. They have been really professional throughout the whole pandemic and have always treated passenger safety of the utmost importance.

 

I am ashamed of the poor decision I have made. I’d like to try and explain my circumstances at the time I evaded my fare but I understand that I am not alone in my situation and it doesn’t change the fact that I have been wrong in the choice I have made.

I have recently returned to work but I have been on reduced pay for a while which led to me committing the incident mentioned. 

 

I was so ashamed of myself when I was stopped by the Railway Enforcement Officer and since then, I have ensured I have paid full fare for every journey I have made.

 

In regards to a possible prosecution, due to a stressful situation at home regarding my parents health, I would really like to settle this out of court if possible with a contribution towards the administration costs as well.

 

I’d like to end this letter by saying that that I understand the gravity of my actions and will never travel without a valid ticket in future. I thank you for taking the time to read my response.’

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lose the red bit don't be pedantic..

 

don't use the health as a reason, just slip it in somewhere as a secondary thought, and that worry concerning them getting covid by you returning back to work, had delayed your return. a few white lies don't hurt.

 

pers i'd fluff it out a bit. 

something like 

 

Notice of intention to prosecute - Thameslink - changed CArNet Ticket date - Please help - **SETTLED** - Public transport (Trains, tubes and buses) - Consumer Action Group

 

 

 

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Great thanks! I have refined it - 

 

‘Dear Prosecutions Manager,

 

I would first of all like to start my response by saying how deeply sorry I am. I realise my actions were wrong and it is in no way representative of how much respect I have for Southeastern and their staff. I am remorseful about the poor decision I have made. I’d like to try and explain my circumstances at the time I evaded my fare.

 

I have recently returned to work but I have been on reduced pay for a while due to COVID-19 which led to me committing the incident mentioned. Additionally, I have been under stress as both my parents have been diagnosed with long term illnesses during the pandemic and I have been concerned about travelling and exposing them to COVID-19. Although I don’t live with them, they have been reliant on me during the pandemic to collect shopping, medication and support them throughout hospital and doctor’s appointments. The extra pressure has taken a toll on my mental health and I have consequently made a careless choice.

 

I was so ashamed of myself when I was stopped by the Revenue Protection Officer and since then, I have ensured I have paid full fare for every journey I have made. The consequences of my actions have weighed heavily on my mind since.

 

I am concerned that a possible prosecution would ruin any future employment opportunities and I would really like to settle this out of court with a contribution towards the administration costs as compensation for my actions.

I am regretful of the extra pressure and inconvenience caused to all involved and would like to make amends.

 

I’d like to end this letter by saying that I understand the gravity of my actions and will never travel without a valid ticket in future. I thank you for taking the time to read my response and I appreciate any leniency you can show in this matter.’

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23rd is a friday... do you get paid monthly and after the 23rd...trying to make this only supposed use look more real

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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