mcuth v Intelligent Finance ***SETTLED IN FULL***

[mcuth]

DPA letter sent 25/04/06 for:

1 x loan a/c

1 x current a/c

1 x credit card a/c

 

Will split threads accordingly when DPA details received

 

They have until 5th June to reply - bring it on!

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Received a letter detailing a list of charges and my DPA cheque returned - letter is as follows (complete with punctuation & grammatic errors):

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

Plan Number: PXXXXXXXXX

 

DATA PROTECTION ACT - DATA SUBJECT ACCESS REQUEST

 

Thank you for your request to access the information we hold about you, which is your right under the Data Protection Act 1998.

 

I note your request for a list of all charges applied to your accounts on the above plan or alternatively a set of bank statements detailing these charges. This is not classed as personal information therefore, we are not required to provide this as part of the DSAR and ordinarily; we would charge £5.00 per copy statemnt. I have however detailed below a summary of all charges applied to your accounts and the date of application. There is no charge for this service on this occasion therefore, please find enclosed the return of your cheque for £10.00.

 

{list of charges}

 

Regarding your request to provide indication of any manual intervention on your account, we are under no statutory obligation to record this information and thus are unable to assist further with this request.

 

I also enclose copies of the following three leaflets for your information:

"All About Data Protection"

"All About Credit Scoring"

"All About Our Complaints Procedure"

 

{snipped bit about getting credit reference file & further DPA info from the IC}

 

In summary, the total charges are....

Credit card: £160

Current Account: £264

Loan: £90 (includes 3 charges of £10)

 

Now, I reckon the above reply is wrong on so many points, but since I've got all the information I wanted from them and it's cost me nowt, I'm going to leave it at that

 

So, the only decision now is whether to combine the amounts into one claim, or have them separately....

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Decided to combine all the charges into one claim - now gonna take on IF for the full amount of £514.00

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[slammiman]

Hi Michael,

 

Please keep us posted on your IF claim as I am in the same process and there doesn't seem to be many people talking about them....

 

I have asked for my £412 back which they declined so now need to take them to court....... apparently you need a form N1 from the court as you can't do Scottish banks/addresses on the money claim site. Unless of course you have done yours through the Halifax at Trinity Road - which I didn't, and maybe should of.

 

I will hopefully get my N1 filled in this week.

 

Will keep you posted!

 

Susie

[Zannie]

Hi I have sent DPA letters last week for loan account and current account, there are not many people talking about if they have had a settlement from this nightmare bank. Will be following your thread.

[mcuth]

I have the letters & charge breakdowns ready to send - just waiting for funds to be able to start off my list of claims (very, very skint at the moment!)

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Prelim letter sent today by RM Special Delivery:

 

Intelligent Finance

1 Baird Road

Kirkton Campus

Livingston

EH54 7AZ

By Royal Mail Special Delivery

Dear Sir/Madam

CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

CURRENT ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXXXXXX

PERSONAL LOAN ACCOUNT

PLAN NUMBER XXXXXXXXX

REQUEST FOR REFUND OF CHARGES

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from my account since inception. I now understand that the regime of fees which you have applied to my account in relation to direct debit/standing order refusal, over limit, late payment and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

 

I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore unrecoverable at Common Law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498; the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Wilson v Love [1896]; Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79; Ford Motor Co v Armstrong [1915]; Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd [1962]; Murray v Leisureplay [2004].

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss; instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In

particular, charges were applied after I entered into transactions without sufficient funds in my account and also when I have gone overdrawn without authorisation. The actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.

UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are

calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50).

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of your loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your

charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the scope of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair

penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations:

‘Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the

object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high

sum in compensation’.

0n 26 July 2005, the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would

be likely to award if the lender sued the cardholder for breach of contract'. Because your charges include a large

profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are unrecoverable as an unfair term in contract. I believe that your

charges require me to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation for incurring transactions which were

ultimately declined by an automated computer system. In addition, it is unfair to require me to subsidise your global debt recovery costs and debt write-off.

It has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary..

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now

 

What I require

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a nett total of £514.00. I request that you refund this amount in full and enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

Targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and write on the assumption that you will prefer to do this rather than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

You have 10 working days, from receipt of this letter (i.e. by Wednesday 5th July 2006), to reply unconditionally accepting my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a further letter before action allowing a further 10 working days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

After that will be no further communication from myself and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

Yours faithfully,

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[slammiman]

Best of luck to you!

 

I have issued my court claim, which they have until the 15 July to acknowledge.

 

I just did it through moneyclaim in the end using the Halifax address at Trinity Road as the man from the County Court who I spoke to said that would be fine.

 

Even doing the court claim manually he said was complicated with a Scottish address as there is extra wording that needs putting in.

 

Lets all watch this space and good luck to all!

 

(P.S - possibly a good thing, I don't know, but it was the Halifax at Trinity Road that paid me back for the last claim I made for my Halifax current account!).

[mcuth]

Yesterday, I received the following standard reply (verbatim):

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

I refer to your letter dated 28 June 2006. Thank you for your patience while I investigated the matter on your behalf.

 

The issue you raised was in relation to charges applied to your current account, credit card account and loan account.

 

As you will understand, like other organisations, we incur costs for every transaction made. When we pay an item against an unauthorised overdraft or return an item unpaid, we incur extra costs regardless of the shortfall involved. We believe it is fair to pass these costs on to the accounts affected, rather than absorb them into other areas of our operations, penalising all our other customers as a result.

 

We clearly outline our charging policy in the terms and conditions that apply to your account. In addition, we are committed to complying with the Banking Code, which sets standards of good banking practice for banks and building societies to follow when dealing with personal customers. The terms and conditions of your account state that you must have funds in your account to cover transactions. We cannot be responsible if you authorised payments against funds that were not available.

 

We are keen to help customers avoid any unnecessary charges by providing various ways to keep track of their accounts. You can do this via telephone banking on 0845 609 4343 or by using our online banking Intelligent Finance - Home page, a service I note you utilise. Ultimately it is your responsibility to manage your account.

 

I acknowledge your comments in respect of the charges, however, as you are aware, the charges were correctly generated and in accordance with our terms and conditions at the level details in the rates and charges publication, therefore taking the aforementioned into consideration, I am unable to provide reimbursement of charges previously applied to your accounts.

 

I would like to thank you for making us aware of your dissatisfaction. I am sorry that you feel the service you received has fallen short of the high standard Intelligent Finance prides itself on delivering.

 

I hope this clarifies everything for you, however, if you have any further questions relating to your complaint, please call me on 0845 XXX XXXX.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Rhona Kerr-Sloan

Customer Relations Consultant

Customer Relations Centre

 

LBA coming up Thursday 13th July....

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[slammiman]

Keep at it!!

 

IF acknowledged my claim and have now said they will file a defence - think they have until the end of the month.

 

I hate the way they drag it out - I'm expecting a court date to come through with this one tho, just hopefully they'll cough up before then. Their good at making me nervous! I can't help but think I've made a boo somewhere that they'll pick me up on!

[Bezza29]

Hi, I have just posted my LBA to good old Rhona Kerr-Sloan at IF.

 

Could someone give me the halifax address to allow me to use moneyclaim. Do you have to enter a name as well? if so what did you enter?

 

How does it work if you go through Halifax?

 

I'm nervous too, but by god it will feel good if I win. don't lose your bottle. I wish you all the best.

[slammiman]

I won!!!

 

Bezza - the address I used was Halifax Plc, Trinity Road, Halifax, West Yorkshire. HX1 2RG. Didn't use any names.

 

BUT...... a note to EVERYBODY!!! I received my letter yesterday saying the following:

 

Dear ....

 

I have received and have been dealing with the proceedings, which you have issued against Intelligent Finance in the Northampton County Court. Intelligent Finance is a trading name of part of Halifax plc's business and thus your claim should technically have been brought against Halifax plc.

 

Your claim related to bank charges debited to your account. These charges were debited to your account in accordance with the account terms and conditions, which you agreed to accept, and by which you are bound.

 

I have returned the Acknowledgment of Service to Northampton County Court indicating that Halifax plc intends to defend your claim. However, on a purely commercial basis, it will cost the Bank money to defend your claim in terms of the legal costs that will be incurred. It is unlikely that the Halifax will be able to recover these costs (even if the bank wins) because your claim will probably be allocated to the small claims track, in which costs are no generally awarded.

 

For this reason, but without admission of liablility, the Halifax is willing to reimburse £412 in respect of the bank charges incurred on your account, together with the interest claimed at £53.84. The Halifax will also reimburse the £50 in respect of the Court Fee. This amounts to £515.84 and I have arranged for this sum to be refunded to your account.

 

Bla bla bla about keen to help avoid unnecessary charges and they can withdraw my banking facilities if I incur any further charges - which I won't cos' I don't bank with them anymore!

 

So - keep at it!!

 

Just for info to anybody - I originally wrote to IF at Livingston and when it came to the court thing I just used the Halifax address at Trinity Road, so don't worry if thats what you've done to. When filling in the moneyclaim site details I used the name Intelligent Finance but the Halifax address so it the Halifax had something to trace it back to.

 

Keep us posted on your claims!!

[Bezza29]

FANTASTIC. Congratulations. Thanks for the address. I will keep you posted on my claim (Circa £3500) so I shall be holidaying if that pays out.

 

What was the name of the person on the letter from halifax just out of interest?

[slammiman]

Blimey - thats a good holiday!! Hope your not waiting long for your money to come through.

 

The letter came from Rachel Hinchcliffe, Litigation Solicitor at:

HBOS plc

Legal Services

Retail Division

Trinity Road

Halifax

HX1 2RG

[mcuth]

LBA sent today:

 

Thursday, 13th July, 2006

 

Rhona Kerr-Sloan

Customer Relations Consultant

Customer Relations Centre

Intelligent Finance

1 Baird Road

Kirkton Campus

Livingston

EH54 7AZ

 

By Royal Mail Special Delivery

 

Dear Ms Kerr-Sloan

 

CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

CURRENT ACCOUNT NUMBER XXXXXXXX

PERSONAL LOAN ACCOUNT

PLAN NUMBER PXXXXXXXXX

 

Your ref: XXX/XXX/XXXX

 

REQUEST FOR REFUND OF CHARGES – LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Further to my letter of 28th June your reply of 6th July 2006, I am again writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from my account since inception. I now understand that the regime of “fees” which you have been applying to my account in relation to “over limit”/late payments/direct debit/standing order refusals, unauthorised overdrafts and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. My letter of 28th June explains this in detail, and your reply of 6th July does not alter the fact that your charges do not represent a genuine pre-estimate of the actual cost of my breach of contract

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a nett total of £514.00. I require repayment of this amount in full and have enclosed a schedule of the charges that I am reclaiming. I would also contend that as these monies are unlawfully charged, payment should be made directly to me rather than being credited to the accounts.

 

If you do not fully comply within 10 working days of receipt of this letter (i.e. by Friday 28th July 2006), I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount (plus interest, plus my costs) without further notice.

 

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

{mcuth}

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Received the following today:

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

I refer to your letter dated 13 July 2006

 

I note your intention and acknowledge your comments regarding the charges, however, as explained to you previously, we are unable to refund the charges you have incurred on your accounts since your accounts were opened.

 

If you remain unsatisfied then you may wish to refer this matter to the Financial Ombudsman Service. They can be contacted by telephone on 0845 080 1800, or by post at:

 

The Financial Ombudsman Service

South Quay Plaza

183 Marsh Wall

London

E14 9SR

 

Email [email protected]

Website the Financial Ombudsman Service

 

I have enclosed a leaflet providing full details of the Ombudsman Service. If you choose this course of action, you must do so within six months of this letter.

 

I trust this clarifies matters for you

 

Yours sincerely

 

Rhona Kerr-Sloan

Customer Relations Consultant

Customer Relations Centre

 

Ok then, another lovely N1 to fill out, ready for issue on Monday 31st July

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

N1 printed & ready to go on 31st July - £514.00 + interest @ £55.68 + court fee £80.00 = total of £649.68

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Rjohnmatt]

Could anyone please mention the Trinity Road address please as its now time to issue a claim since they havent responded and I have no address to fill in.

Thanks

[Zannie]

halifax plc

trinity road

hx1 2rg

 

Hope this is what you needed.

[mcuth]

Claim to be taken to Swindon County Court today - with interest/court fees, the amount has gone up to £649.68 from £514.00

 

Will PM a mod when the claim is issued...

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Case no: 6SN02735

Swindon County Court

Value: £649.68 (£514 + £55.68 interest + £80 fee)

Issue: 31st July 2006

Deemed to be served: 5th August 2006

 

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Stopthethieves]

Just received my plan statements from IF for credit, current and loan accounts.

 

I must say that charges are the least of the worries.

 

I am going to challenge the default against me as it is for the wrong date and the wrong amount, it also implies I have been defaulted TWICE by IF. Details don't match up with Credit Reference Agency records by TEN months.

 

£000's of charges.

 

An absolutely horrific bank, they way they have been with me is quite honestly HORRIFIC.

 

I have nearly 100 letters off this bank.

 

Going to start my own thread, Adminstrator please create sub forum under HALIFAX.

 

Thank you and good luck, I will be there soon!!!!

[mcuth]

Got a notification this morning from the court that Halifax (Intelligent Finance) have filed an Acknowledgement of Service on 8th August, with intent to defend all of the claim - they have until 2nd September to file a defence.

 

Ooooh, I'm scared.....NOT

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Received the following from HBOS Legal Services today:

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

I have received and have been dealing with the proceedings, which you have issued against Halifax plc in the Swindon County Court.

 

Your claim relates to bank charges debited to your current, credit and personal loan accounts. These charges were debited to your account in accordance with the account terms and conditions, which you agreed to accept, and by which you are bound.

 

I have returned the Acknowledgement of Service to the Swindon County Court indicating that Halifax plc intends to defend your claim. However, on a purely commercial basis, it will cost the Bank money to defend your claim in terms of the legal costs that will be incurred. It is unlikely that the Halifax will be able to recover these costs (even if the bank wins) because your claim will probably be allocated to the small claims track, in which costs are not generally awarded.

 

For this reason, but without admission of liability, the Halifax is willing to reimburse £514 in respect of the bank charges incurred your account [sic], together with the interest claimed at £56.67. The Halifax will also reimburse the £80 in respect of the Court Fee. This amounts to £650.67 and I have arranged for this sum to be refunded to your respective accounts.

 

I will write to the Court to notify them that your claim has been settled in full and I would be grateful if you would do the same.

 

We are keen to help you avoid any unnecessary charges in the future by providing various ways to keep track of your account. You can do this via telephone banking on 0845 609 4343 or by online banking (www.IF.com).

 

Ultimately it is your responsibility to manage your account. If you incur any future charges the Bank reserves the right to withdraw your banking facilities; full details are explained in the terms and conditions of the account. If you would like to discuss this, please contact our Customer Relations department on 0845 605 0625.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Rachel Hinchliffe

Litigation Solicitor

Legal Services - Retail Division

Aside from the fact that these people just cannot use the English language, does anyone else find this just a little presumptious: "I will write to the Court to notify them that your claim has been settled in full"?

 

What they're missing here is that although the accounts are all in default & passed to DCAs, so the balance will only decrease - however, the court fee has the precise sum of Sweet FA to do with the accounts and at the very least should be refunded directly to me.

 

Anyone any suggestions on a comeback?

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Ok, fired this one back at them...

 

Rachel Hinchliffe

Litigation Solicitor

Legal Services – Retail Division

HBOS PLC

Trinity Road

Halifax

HX1 2RG

Dear Ms Hinchliffe

Myself v Halifax PLC

Claim No: 6SN02735

Thank you for your letter of 9th August 2006, received today, the contents of which I note.

Whilst I agree with you refunding the amounts to my accounts with Intelligent Finance and reducing the balances due on them, the court fee of £80 must be returned to me directly – it was not issued from an Intelligent Finance account, is not in any way related to my Intelligent Finance accounts, and must not be used to reduce the balance of those accounts.

I would also request confirmation of the balances due across the accounts post-refund in order that I may confirm the balances due to my Debt Management Company (PayPlan).

When I have received the court fee directly, I will then write to Swindon County Court and advise them that the claim is settled.

Yours sincerely

{mcuth}

 

Cheers

 

Michael