Hermes found £3000 lost guitar and then offered expenses!!! Bravo Hermes!!!

[Jointhechorus]

Good evening all.

 

I thought I would start a post here so others can follow it from start to finish to see how it all ends as reading posts on this forum have been invaluable to me so far and I want to contribute.

 

I'll deliberately leave specific details out due to the case still being open. I will say that the guitar is worth several thousand pounds.

 

At the start of April 2021 I booked a Hermes collection through Parcel2go, to return a guitar back to the store as I wanted a refund. The store policy where I purchased the instrument from is that you have to organise the return yourself. I usually use a more reputable courier but only two were available.

 

I did declare the instrument for it's true value but I did not take out the extra insurance offered as it was several hundred pounds and I knew Hermes would not pay out due to it being on their endless list of prohibited items.

 

My parcel went out for delivery over a week ago. Apparently it was not delivered. The tracking states it was later scanned again at the depot, where no further updates or changes have occurred.

 

Prior to collection I took photographs of the instrument, pre and post packaging so I can show that it was definitely properly packaged and labeled in case anything like this was to happen.

 

I have since contacted Hermes several times (impossible by phone, all done by the online assistant on their site and then email responses following on from that) and have finally been informed that they have lost it.

 

I have submitted a claim through Parcel2Go as this seems like standard procedure, plus Parcel2Go state they will investigate but I'm sure that's only asking Hermes where it is and getting the same answer. The payout offered is the basic £20 fee as standard by Hermes.

 

I have every intention of going as far as I can to get all of the true value back as I understand that they have a legal right to ensure that they do not lose or damage goods shipped. Any advice or guidance offered here could be the difference between achieving that goal or being very upset.

 

I will update you to let you know if anything changes.

 

Status right now: waiting to hear back from Parcel2go in regards to the claim

 

 

[slick132]

Hi JTC and welcome to CAG

 

I'm sure @BankFodder and/or others will be along in the morning to comment but take any spare time you have to read other recent threads about Parcel2Go/Hermes cases.

 

Lots to read, and learn.

[BankFodder]

What is the value?

[Jointhechorus]

The Value is just under £3000

 

Just to clarify it is an electric solid body guitar and I did describe it as this when arranging the collection/delivery, valued at £2800. I still have all the store receipts so proving the value shouldn't be an issue if required at some point.

[BankFodder]

Thank you.

You're absolutely right to wait for the formal result of your claim/complaint – but we all know that you will be knocked back.

On that basis you will have absolutely to send a letter of claim followed by a claim in the County Court.

We may as well move it on as quickly as possible so you may as well be completely prepared. There is no point in mucking around.

Please spend the next few days reading up the various stories on this sub- forum which mostly relate to Hermes – but whether you sue Hermes or P2G, the story will be the same and so will the process that you will have to go through.

The only thing which will make a difference it would be the value – at £2800 – +8% interest from the moment that it failed to arrive at its destination – and this will make a value which could possibly prompt them in to actually going to court rather than simply settling at mediation.
The downside for them is that of course that they will be relying on the fact that you failed to take out insurance. I have a sense also that musical instruments may be on their prohibited items list – and they may attempt to rely on that as well as a justification for having lost it!!

Anyway, please read up the stories and you will soon understand the principles – particularly in relation to the unfairness/unenforceability of the insurance requirement and also the absurdity of trying to rely on a prohibited items list in order to defend having lost your guitar.

When you had your knockback from P2G, let us know and we can sort out the letter of claim and a draft particulars of claim.

If you haven't done this kind of thing before then also read up on this forum about the steps involved taking a small claim in the County Court because that is where you going to go. I suppose there might be a stab at mediation so read up some of the excellent mediation stories here as well.

In fact if you want we can get a letter of claim prepared straightaway so that you can respond without a moment's delay and get things rolling.

If that appeals to you then once you have done the bits of reading, draft a letter of claim and post it here and will see what happens.

By the way, if you have come over from one of the Facebook groups then if you think things are being well handled here, do let them know. Also reassure them that it's all free and there are no funny tricks.

I'm very disappointed at the Facebook groups – they operate for the most part in private so people can't see what's going on and it seems to me that they are all talking shops and eventually people get fatigued and give up.
They are all well-intentioned and I suppose there are good meeting place for people who fall victims to Hermes et cetera but they don't really cut the mustard

[Jointhechorus]

Thank you for your detailed response. I am currently working my way through a thread where you have personally highlighted and linked cases and scenarios. I am taking details from these that I feel I could use in my own case.

 

I am fully expecting to have to go to court due to the value and my only concern is the lack of the so called insurance as you call it. Charging several hundred pounds (around 10 times the initial delivery fee) to 'ensure' they do what you are originally paying them to do, absurd. At least highwaymen wore masks.

 

Musical instruments are definitely on the prohibited list and I am also expecting this to be a major part of their defence. From my reading here so far I understand that if I wanted to ship the moon and they lost it, it wouldn't make a difference if it was on the prohibited list. What an object is has no bearing on whether it can be lost or not.

 

I am actually unsure whether to go for P2G or Hermes. My initial contract is with P2G as stated before, but again I have read here that the rights I am entitled to branch out from the entity I go into a contract with, also extend to any agents they use as part of that contract/process. From my reading so far it seems that P2G have a tighter grip on their money and provide a more rugged defense whereas Hermes seem to avoid the hearing stage. I have a feeling that might be different for me due to the value however. If only Hermes defence was as reliable as their delivery service.

 

Just so you are aware, I did not come from Facebook. I began by looking online for case files where people had sued couriers in an attempt to learn what I could do to salvage the situation. 

Edited April 22, 2021 by Jointhechorus

[BankFodder]

The cost of the insurance against the value of the item is simply a distraction. Don't get diverted by that.

The principle is clear, in my view, that it is unfair to expect any you has to insure against the negligent/breach of contract/criminality of the service provider.
Have a look at the unfair terms provisions in the consumer rights act.

If you start arguing as to whether or not it's good value, then effectively you are recognising the validity of the insurance and the enforceability of the requirement.

[Jointhechorus]

After having a look at the consumer rights act, essentially P2G/Hermes offering a second contract (in the form of more insurance) and me not taking it puts me at a disadvantage. This is a significant imbalance in favour of P2G/Hermes as they can state they gave me the option to cover myself when in reality a second contract is not needed. The second contract existing should not undermine the responsibility they have under the main contract to deliver my goods in a safe and timely manner.

 

Have I understood that properly?

 

BF, in your opinion, which of the two companies would I be more likely to succeed against? I imagine that's an impossible question to answer due to external factors such as a judges mood on the day.

 

 

[BankFodder]

Actually I hadn't looked at it in that way in that you are being invited or pressurised to take out a second contract. I had always seen it as part of the main contract – and so what you are saying is very interesting and needs some thinking about.

However, the principal contract, I believe, makes it clear that if you don't take out the second contract then they won't cover you.

At the end of the day it's probably all academic but it's a very interesting way for you to express it.

And yes, you have understood it correctly.

In terms of who are you more likely to succeed against, I don't think I'm able to express an opinion.

Is the contract of insurance with Hermes or with P2G?

[Jointhechorus]

I know you are juggling many forum posts so I will repeat myself to help you where possible.

 

I do not have any insurance, unless you are referring to the base amount of £20, which is from Hermes. From what I can determine it looks like the couriers provide their cover through P2G as the middle man.

 

Interestingly P2G have a prohibited items list you can filter by courier here: https://www.parcel2go.com/prohibited-items which actually differs from the MyHermes official page. The P2G one states you can ship musical instruments with MyHermes, whereas the MyHermes states you cannot: https://www.myhermes.co.uk/_assets/pdf/carry-guide.pdf

 

Even though P2G are the parcel brokers I used to form the contract, all parties are subject to the rights of third parties act. I can refer to the negligence of Hermes more directly if I deal with them. I can give them the burden of proving they didn't lose it through negligence which will be impossible to do. Slip them the old res ispa.

 

[BankFodder]

Okay in that case sue Hermes.
I realise that you didn't have any insurance. I was worried that you were going to start justifying not having insurance on the basis that it was too expensive. If you raised that issue then as I've already suggested, you would be validating the principle of the insurance requirement.
I'm actually wondering whether if you sue Hermes on the basis of your third party rights in respect of the contract between P2G and Hermes, that if for some reason or other it goes wrong, you can get a second bite of the cherry and sue on the principal contract between you and P2G.
I suppose I wouldn't rate your chances very highly if you failed the first time – but it's a thought.

[Jointhechorus]

Okay, so the unbelievable happened today. I woke up to a call from someone at Hermes essentially saying that they thought they had found my guitar.

 

Fast forward 3 hours driving to London and there it was. It had been removed from the double boxes i had packaged it in and was only in its actual hard case but it was undamaged.

 

No explanation as to how or why it had been removed from the packaging but I must be the one in a million that gets a package back from the network. I can't believe it still.

 

No proceedings are needed then I guess!

[BankFodder]

Well that's an amazing story. Well done.

If you would like to sue for the delivery charges and also your petrol and mileage for going to get it, then we are happy to help you. The chances of winning are much better than 95% and it would be fun to do – but it's up to you.

I'm very pleased that you had this result. Very extraordinary. Great news.

Let us know if you want to get your expenses. Frankly Hermes need a slap.

[Jointhechorus]

Well in another incredible twist to this tale, Hermes head office called me yesterday to check to see if I had collected the guitar and I explained that I drove down myself to make sure it wasn't lost again etc.

 

They offered to pay my fuel and the courier fee right there and then! They said that they are trying to work on their bad reputation and are changing processes for the better in the future.

 

Who knows if that is true but I feel like I have just come out of an episode of The Twilight Zone!

[BankFodder]

I feel so angry. I was so looking forward to begin another legal action against them and forcing them to waste all that money defending another no-hoper.
Now they've offered you all of your expenses.
I hate it when that happens
 

 

Next thing you know they'll be doing T-shirts

I Hermes!

[Jointhechorus]

One quick glance and it looks like you love herpes, same level of satisfaction for sure.