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Aviva ignored signs of financial abuse by sibling and supported by FOS


Titchytitch
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Test only please ignore..

 

 

Gick try now.. regards dx

 

 

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thank you dx, all seems fine now!

My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the Heart. Thank you

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:yo:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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@Titchytitch What would be the grounds for your complaint ?

 

They have investigated and decided that they do not have enough evidence to put to prosecutors.

 

Only worth going back to the Police, if you have further evidence that they have not considered.

We could do with some help from you.

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@unclebulgaria67 they were meant to take a statement from my hubby who was supposedly meant to be present during this verbal agreement and the extended family member to whom Mr Z had provided the screen shot of payment made and his recording admitting he had paid the insurance  she didn't speak 5o him either for a statement 

 

The investigating officer was on annual leave from 27th Sept-13th oct Mr z was arrested 21/09 and interviewed 22/09 . They are saying avuva believe there was a verbal agreement hes my brother not my husband he claimed to be my husband 

 

I asked the officer how he isn't being charged for defrauding a company she replied Aviva don't believe they have been a victim of fraud which is absurd??

 

The supervisor said of I wanted to put a complaint in I can and it will be reviewed independently so I was thinking of complaining on how the case had been handled the investigating officer was on annual leave and she came back and decided there's no further action purely based on the fact my eldest brother gave a false statement saying the verbal agreement was made in his presence since when has a verbal agreement been a base for a case ? There was no agreement made and the officer never took statements of my hubby or cousin even though she said she would 

 

I was thinking to put a complaint in for the record really 

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The police investigate.

if they believe an offence has taken place they pass it to the CPS for a decision on if to prosecute / charge the person with the offence.

 

The CPS “charging standard” is two-fold:

a) that the prosecution has a “realistic prospect” of success, while

 b) prosecution is in the public interest.

 

Don’t forget that the required standard of proof for a criminal prosecution is “beyond all reasonable doubt”.

 

You need to enquire if the case was passed to the CPS or if a decision it shouldn’t go to the CPS was made….. to determine if you complain to the police, the CPS, or both.

Edited by BazzaS
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@BazzaS they said they believe there's insufficient evidence as it's all word of mouth and hear say even though they have clear evidence ge has made use of the insurance he has controlled the policy companies have said hes made fraudulent applications and the premiums have gone out of his account and he's had it reversed so monies have been returned to himself 

 

So um finding it hard to get my head around why all the other evidence has been thrown out and they've based it just on the fact the one who committed the fraud said there was a verbal agreement the eldest brother has given a false account and that aviva are saying a verbal agreement existed and all other evidence has been undermined 

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I'm afraid that I don't believe it's worth chasing the police or anybody else at the moment – other than Aviva using the other thread in relation to data protection issues.

You can see that by and large nobody really wants to get involved. They all choose the path of least resistance. As far as they're concerned Aviva will get their money and they reckon that it will all die a death.

I understand that you may have a source of funds to buy off Aviva and if that's correct then it may well be worth paying them simply to get a quiet life and to mitigate your losses but do so under protest.

We need to discuss how this might happen

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@BankFodder yes but it needs to be without me landing with a default or it affecting my credit rating ?

 

We have quite a bit to think about let me return from holiday relaxed and recharged ready to attack in a tactful manner 

 

Many thanks 

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I would complain to the police - even if I thought it would go nowhere.  I can't see that you have anything to lose.

 

I can't tell you the grounds of your complaint because I don't know the details of everything that has happened (you know better than I do)  and because I've found much of the story too difficult to follow.  

 

But - based on everything you have told us - it seems to me that your brother has clearly committed fraud by obtaining the benefit of an insurance policy by falsely misrepresenting that he was opening the policy on your behalf and also by falsely misrepresenting himself - or a third party - as being your husband.  If your brother could not have taken out that policy without making those misrepresentations, then he has committed fraud.  It doesn't matter whether the victim was Aviva or you  and it doesn't matter if the victim realises they've been defrauded or not - the police should investigate it properly.  In this case you are the ultimate victim of the fraud because Aviva are saying that you owe them for the premiums on the policy your brother fraudulently took out, so whether Aviva consider they were the victims of fraud or not is irrelevant - they don't care because you end up as the fall guy.  Point out that this may have ended in a civil dispute over a debt between you and Aviva, but that that debt directly arises as a result of your brother's fraud in claiming to be acting on your behalf and by impersonating your brother.

 

One of the reasons the police seem to have dropped this case (and this needs to be one of your main grounds of complaint I think) is that they have accepted without question your brother's statement that your husband was somehow involved or in some way agreed to your brother taking this policy out in your name, and the police have simply and uncritically accepted your brother's word on that without ever speaking to your husband, who would vigourously deny it. 

 

(I can't make any better suggestion than that because, to be honest, I don't follow what has happened.  If you never authorised your brother to open this insurance policy at all then I don't understand why the police would place any importance at all on your husband being present at a meeting with your brother.  What did your husband's presence have to do with the insurance policy?  Even if he had been at such meeting (which you say he denies) then how could he authorise anything on your behalf?  None of it makes any sense to me and I can't see why the police would think it did.)

 

Challenge the police to explain to you why they believe there is insufficient evidence to pass this on to the CPS

 

I would follow the published complaints procedure of the police force in question and I would also send a copy to your local Police and Crime Commissioner.

 

I think the main problem here is that (despite what the nice woman PC may have suggested to you) the police have never considered you to be the victim.  You need to demonstrate to them via your complaint that you are the victim here.

 

One other question: is your husband and are your family supporting you through this, or are you going it alone?

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@Manxman in exile I eloped to get with my husband si my husband and siblings never sat together in the same room .

 

Hes claiming a verbal agreement was made but a verbal agreement doesn't hold any water in the eyes of the law..no agreement was made I was in Leeds with my toddler. 

 

He has made use of the policy , had the luxury of the insurance and reversed the money back and now Aviva are coming after me.

 

You've summed it up well is there anyone in the group that can help me draft the complaint to the police as I'm flying out first thing tomorrow and my head is all over the place.

 

My husband me Mr z , my late father and eldest brother were at this meeting supposedly when the verbal agreement was made but yet the officer took a statement off the eldest brother and didn't take it off the husband and based the final decision on the eldest brothers statement and Mr Z and all other evidence which is in written form has been completely dismissed 

 

I'm fighting it all alone coming from an Asian background I am getting taunts and salt is bring rubbed on my wounds its not been a pleasant experience yo say the least trying to prove my innocence and having to listen to the b******* being spouted out by everyone whilst Mr Z is walking away not guilty 

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Just to add there is a scheme called the Victim's Right to Review.  It basically applies to decisions made by the CPS not to go ahead with a prosecution.  It doesn't apply to decisions made by local police forces, but it does say:

 

19.  Decisions that are not eligible for VRR include:

...

iii where the police or other investigator exercises their independent discretion not to investigate or not to investigate a case further (whether in consultation with the CPS or not) and the CPS have not been requested / have been unable to make a final decision to charge. Requests for review of such decisions should instead be addressed to the relevant police force/other investigator; [My bold]

 

I'm not familiar with the scheme so can't advise - but other posters here may know about it or have experience of it.  You need to read the above link but note that it talks about things that seem to fit your situation.   eg a victim is defined as ‘a person who has made an allegation that they have suffered harm, including physical, mental or emotional harm or economic loss which was directly caused by criminal conduct’.

 

If you have not already requested that the police review their decision not to pass the case onto the CPS, then I would do so.  If you are not happy with the outcome of that, complain.

 

I can't advise you definitely to go ahead and ask for a review or complain, but if I were in your situation that is what I would do.  But I tend to agree with BankFodder that you'll get nowhere and, if you are sick and tired of all this and just want it to go away, then just drop the police.  However, if you don't try...

 

[Apologies for the italic typeface/font - it's the above link causing it.  The italics should have stopped at the end of the third para above ending ' ... criminal conduct'.  I can't change it.  Very annoying]

Edited by Manxman in exile
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I'm afraid you won't get a complaint drafted before tomorrow morning - and I think most others here think it would be a waste of time anyway and that the police decision won't change.  I would ask for a review and make a complaint on principle, but I suspect you are better off concentrating your effort on your other thread and direct complaint against Aviva.

 

Unless you are out of the country for an extended period I'd wait until your return before considering futrther whwther to complain about the police.

 

[ By the way, just so that you don't mislead yourself as it's a mistake many people make, ALL agreements are "verbal" in that they are composed of words.  Some agreements are in writing and others are oral, spoken or vocal.  The law recognises oral or spoken agreements just as much as ones that are written down.  The only practical difference is that oral agreements can be difficult to prove in a dispute]

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If you are flying away tomorrow (or rather this) morning I'd just forget about complaining to the police now.  As BF said earlier it's probably just a waste of your time anyway so I wouldn't worry about it.  Forget it for now.  Have a safe flight and concentrate on your other thread against Aviva.

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@BankFodder I have received a response from aviva they have assumed authorisation as he claimed to be my husband they are not giving a full transcript of the inception call I am unable unable listen to the transcript due to being abroad etc 

 

Below is their response :

 

Good morning Mrs Bi

 

Thank you for your patience in awaiting our response to your e mail dated 27th September 2021.  We have now had the opportunity to review the call made to set up the policy and have attached a transcript of the part of the call which highlights your own personal identifiable information.  As you will see from the transcript, we spoke to Mr Mohammed Zafar who confirmed your date of birth and address and that he was authorised to deal with this matter for you.

 

I do hope this information is useful to you and resolves any outstanding queries you may have but please do not hesitate to contact us again should any concerns or queries remain.

 

I have password protected the file with the same password as we have previously used.

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Okay we will deal with this when you get back. No real surprises here. They are scrambling to find some kind of justification.

It's quite ridiculous that they can have 1/3 party on the phone who simply gives somebody's name and address and a verbal assurance that they are authorised and that the company then goes ahead to issue contracts in their name.

This is clearly an example of unlawful data processing, in my view.

I don't think there's much else we can do on this thread and I think that we should start dealing with things on the other thread when you get back

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