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Aviva ignored signs of financial abuse by sibling and supported by FOS


Titchytitch
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@BankFodder response from the FOS

Thank you for your email and I'm sorry to hear that you're unhappy with the way we've handled things. 

 

I will raise a service complaint and a manager will be in touch shortly to confirm the next steps. Please note the service complaint will be a full review of the level of service we've provided and will not address the merits of the final decision

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You could tell them that as there are no merits to the original decision, you understand their position that it would be futile to attempt to address them

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@BankFodder update from the police tonight

 

the PC has said that the economic crime unit have concluded that the companies have been defrauded.

Aviva have put a hold on things for now but she will be questioning aviva why they haven't done an in depth investigation and concluded it is fraud and why they haven't exercised the same due diligence as the other companies 

 

She said the aviva case was a financial loss to me so she will get the help from someone in economic crime unit to simplify the forms and then shes in a position to bring him in for an interview and will then update me on what he says 

 

They have noted it against his record on the police records that he has committed identity theft so I guess it will offer me a peace of mind going forwards 

 

That's all the update for now 

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@Titchytitch
sound good. But wait to see what happens after the Police interview him.  This may or may not change how the Police are dealing with this.  

 

Cautious hopeful approach that this will be resolved is probably best, as until the Police actually charge him with offences, there is possibility this saga will keep going.

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Yes, good news.

Do you have this in writing from the police?

I think it would be good idea to write to Aviva and tell them that the police have informed you that they have contacted Aviva and made requests or recommendations in respect of any action that they are taking against you and you would like Aviva to tell you what has been discussed, what has been decided and what is their current position in respect of you.

I'm sure you said it more than once – but can you remind me of what the position is with the FOS FOIA request and also the SAR

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@BankFodder she phoned me yesterday its not in writing yet the officer will be contacting another company who refused to investigate as they were wanting to know what the police would be doing 

Officer will be speaking to them as well as asking Aviva why they haven't exercised due diligence 

Would it make sense to wait till he's called in for an interview to then write to aviva gives the officer time to discuss her approach with aviva as im thinking to be on the cautious side as now the police are involved aviva are answerable to an extent 

With regards to the the SAR , FOIA I've heard nothing FOS email was received 4th June asking for 3wk extension which will finish tomorrow 

Family members have started putting pressure to drop the fraud case and that he will pay me 6k i said no unless he physically pays aviva himself and gives a statement to aviva it was all him  nothing is getting dropped 

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I need to think about the approach to Aviva – but in terms of your brother paying the money to Aviva to get the case dropped, you should understand that although that may satisfy the alleged debt, it will go down as you having settled it and it will do nothing to help your credit file.

Of course if he makes a statement to Aviva admitting everything, it will be helpful but am afraid it is actually no guarantee that Aviva will be prepared to clear your credit file or to absolve you from any blame.

You need to understand that once the people make decisions, they are not prepared to face the humiliation of admitting they were wrong. This applies to Aviva and also applies to the FOS – as you are already finding out.
I understand that the family pressure may be difficult – but frankly you need the police investigation and the fraud conviction in order to sort this out completely.

If you start receiving money from your brother and paying it to Aviva, it may prejudice your case later on against Aviva for the way they have treated you. Even if he supplies them with a statement, it won't necessarily make things a lot easier.

I'm afraid that I think you need to stand your ground despite family pressure. Your brother has committed some very serious offences and these are not things that any reasonable family would accept being swept under the carpet – which is what they are trying to do.

You should warn the police that you are coming under this pressure

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@BankFodder yes I have told the officer im facing pressure from the family and I won't be dropping any charges she said I can ask him to pay the money but if he doesnt it will go down the CPS and court route .

I think my brother thought I was calling it bluff as for last 18mths I've felt the pressure and have been hounded with letters so it will be a pleasant surprise when he's arrested and bought in for interview 

But as it stands I'm standing my ground and letting the police deal with it as I know it will take a lot to clear my name 

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I'm afraid that it really will take a conviction – and ideally it needs to include a conviction on the Aviva fraud. Convictions on the others will be helpful but a conviction on the Aviva fraud will be recently conclusive.
I don't know if you have discussed the communications which you apparently received from Aviva and for various reasons never received or never responded to, but I think you need to make sure that the police are aware of this and they include this in their investigation so that your own involvement in this is investigated and then you are ruled out of the investigation.

If you haven't discussed this already then you should certainly discuss it with the police.

Have you provided the FOS report to the police? If you haven't then you should do so

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@BankFodder the police have copies of all credit reports all communication with aviva and the FOS decision 

I told the officer how he was getting all correspondence sent to him as he had signed up with his email and this was obvious from another company he had defrauded they sent me a data subject access and on there it stated tehy had sent me annual statements which I never received he asked for a settlement figure they said this would be emailed to customer and couldn't be disclosed to him on the phone , he still got the information  as he was the customer indirectly and it was his email and the officer has site of this data access too 

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Please can I prompt you to introduce proper spacing and punctuation et cetera into your posts. I notice that my site team colleague had to restructure your post above to make it more readable especially on a small screen.

 

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On 27/06/2021 at 10:54, Titchytitch said:

@BankFodder I have received no response from the FOS, originally they said they would be in contact in 3wks,

the deadline was fri 25/06 no correspondence/update received.

 

This is for both the FOIR and the SAR

@BankFodder any direction please ?

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Well we could issue a letter of claim to the FOS and threaten legal proceedings.

It might be prudent at this point simply to send them a reminder and asking them where is the disclosure which on XXX date they promised for 25th of June

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@BankFodder response from FOS 

 

Thank you for your email of 26 April 2021 requesting your personal information. I’m very sorry that your subject access request was not processed within the prescribed timeframe.

Unfortunately, your request had come to us at a busy time and because of this, we weren’t able to process what you’d asked for as quickly as we would have liked or within one-month.

Following on from our previous emails, I can confirm we have now processed your request for information in line with article 15 of the UK General Data Protection Regulation about the following complaint reference:xxxxx

 

Information relating to your complaint is stored in your complaint file on our case management system and we hold information six years after we close your complaint. Any calls about your complaint are stored in our call recording server, IPFX. Please be aware that we only retain call recordings for two years.

 

A copy of our privacy notice for consumers, which explains how we process and share your data is available here.

 

The complaint file we’ve shared has been arranged in date order, with the oldest correspondence first and has been uploaded to the secure electronic portal Egress. We have also uploaded the call recordings that relate to your case.

 

We have removed any duplicate information or repetitive emails chains as we processed your request, as well as any information that is not about you. You will notice that parts of the documents have been redacted. We have redacted the names and contact details of third parties at the financial business who you have not had any interaction with as this contains their personal data, but we have left in details about the financial business so you can see what information we have sent and shared with the business.

 

I’ve noted you asked for copies on any internal emails our service may have had about your complaint. However, these have been withheld as they are in relation to progressing your complaint and contain our internal processes.

 

Please note that you can view your information using a free version of Egress – you will not need to pay to access the data we have shared with you.

 

I’ve attached a user guide to explain how you can access the files on Egress.

 

You should receive an email shortly from Egress confirming the files are available for you to view and download. If you don’t receive the email please check your spam or junk folder.

 

Alternatively, you can follow the steps below to access the files:

 

1. Please could you use this link: https://fos.egresscloud.com to access the files.

2. Select ‘new user’ – this option appears towards the bottom of the page.

3. Enter your Egress ID – this is your email address: XXXXXXXXX

4. Enter your first and last name. Please note that you are not required to enter your mobile number.

5. Set up your password – this can be whatever you like. You will also need to set some security questions. Please keep a secure note of your password and security question answers.

6. Now that you have set up your account details, you will need to agree the user terms by clicking the box.

7. Click ‘create account’.

 

Once your account has been created, you will be asked to log in with your username (email) and password. Once you have logged in you will be able to see your secure folders, which contains the information that we have shared with you.

 

The information on Egress is available for 30 days for security reasons. You can click the download button to view and retain a copy of the files on your personal device, so you have continued access to it and can refer back to it as and when needed.

 

Please let us know if you have any problems accessing the files.

 

We hope this answers all of your questions, but if you are unhappy with our response or you have any questions about your subject access request, please get in contact with us so we can look into these for you. We also need to let you know that you have the right to complain to the UK Information Commissioner’s Office. Information on how to do this is available on their website at http://ico.org.uk/complaints.

 

 

 

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Okay. I think that what you are particularly interested in is there exchange of information with Aviva with particular reference to the so-called Aviva "process".

You need to find out if there is one – the probably isn't – and if the FOS has seen it – they probably haven't. But if there happens to be one then what does it say.

Obviously keep your eye open for any other interesting information

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Posted (edited)

@BankFodder I have looked at the above information that they have sent they have only disclosed the calls between me and the FOS no other information has been shared.

 

There is nothing regarding aviva or any exchange of any information between the FOS and aviva on there 

I now have 14 days to reject the ombudsmans decision.

 

The complaint we made regarding the service I havent heard from the service manager as of yet either 

Edited by Titchytitch
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On 28/06/2021 at 21:00, Titchytitch said:

@BankFodder I have looked at the above information that they have sent they have only disclosed the calls between me and the FOS no other information has been shared.

 

There is nothing regarding aviva or any exchange of any information between the FOS and aviva on there 

I now have 14 days to reject the ombudsmans decision.

 

The complaint we made regarding the service I havent heard from the service manager as of yet either 

 @BankFodder please advise

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We can do the reply next week. It won't take very long.

However I suggest that you write them now and expressed disappointment that you haven't received any acknowledgement of your complaint to the independent assessor and you would like to know that it has been received and what the timescale is.

I suggest you send a copy of that complaint to them in case they've lost it.

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@BankFodder rejection of FOS decision

Quote

 

Dear Joanna

 

I am writing to formally decline your decision of 13th April.

 

I am in the process of making a complaint about the service standards applied to the investigation of my complaint against Aviva insurance – reference number MMV312345338.

 

But for now I am declining the decision based on the following reasons:

Reliance on Aviva's "process"
The ombudsman, who declined to uphold my complaint, based that decision mainly on the fact that Aviva had apparently followed their “process” and because they had followed that process, their action in entering into a contract of motor insurance was fair.

  1. There is no indication in the ombudsman’s report that the ombudsman had ever had sight of the Aviva process or had even considered whether that process was fair.
  2. By Aviva’s own admission, the Aviva call handler who took the original fraudulent telephone call was suspicious or uncomfortable about setting up the policy and decided to ask a manager.
  3. It is clear that had the call handler simply relied on her own instinct, that the fraudulent policy would never have been taken out and none of the resulting events would have happened.
  4. On 2 June 2021 I received a phone call from Aviva complaints department and during the conversation the complaints call handler pointed out that the call handler in 2015 had made a mistake because she had the authority to decide whether or not to provide the insurance cover and she had no need to go to the manager.
  5. In other words, if the call handler in 2015 had adhered to the Aviva “process” the fraudulent policy would never have been provided.
  6. My complaint is that either the ombudsman has never seen any document laying out the Aviva “process” and that they have simply accepted Aviva’s word for it.
  7. It may be that Aviva has deliberately or inadvertently misled the ombudsman.
  8. My complaint is that the ombudsman did not ask to see a copy of the Aviva “process”.
  9. If that is the case then the ombudsman’s investigation was not complete and this must surely fall below the FOS service standards.

 

Nowhere in your decision have you explained what the process was and whether in fact the process was fair. Clearly your view is that regards of the process, all that was needed was for Aviva apparently to follow this process and any outcome would be fair.

You may be interested to know that the man who defrauded Aviva also attempted to use my identity to defraud a number of loan companies. I’m pleased to say that all of them exercised sufficient diligence that they did not become victims of the fraud. Only Aviva failed to exercise proper care and allowed themselves to be defrauded.

You may also be interested to know that the police have interviewed me and they will be interviewing my brother and they are preparing to charge my brother in respect of his fraudulent activity. I am under no suspicion whatsoever. The police have informed Aviva to hold any debt collection as it is being formally investigated.

There are many other reasons why I am refusing to accept your decision. All the other reasons turn on the fairness of your decision that the reasons above, go to the heart of your own process and the quality of your investigation.

According to the FOS website, the ombudsman will "… then look at the details of your complaint afresh….". The FOS website also says that "the ombudsman will then ask both parties to make any final representations which he/she will consider…".


So far as I can gather, the ombudsman formed their decision solely on the information which had been gathered by the initial investigator and had not started "afresh" – from zero – as required by the FOS rubric.


In particular, at no point was I approached by the ombudsman for any information. Nothing was discussed with me. I was not involved in any way in the ombudsman's consideration of the events. Furthermore, I was not asked to make any "final representations" before the ombudsman issued their final decision in my case.


Although I understand that apparently the decision is now fixed in stone, by any reasonable standards the only possible finding would be that the ombudsman investigation was flawed and therefore the final decision has been invalidated.
 

Suggested course of action.

 

I understand very well that the ombudsman service will not reverse its decision under any circumstances. However, I have now decided to formally decline the decision.

 

1.      In view of the fact that the ombudsman's own published "process" has not been applied to the handling of my complaint, the decision by the ombudsman should be considered as vitiated. In that case, the decision would be considered to have no validity at all and so there will be no question of the ombudsman being asked to reverse it as there would effectively be no decision to alter.

2.      A second or alternative suitable course of action is that if it is correct that the ombudsman has never seen the “process”, that the case be remitted back to Aviva with a recommendation that they withdraw themselves from the issue.


 

Police fraud investigation


I should point out that the person responsible for the fraud – who is my brother – is facing arrest for a number of similar attempted frauds on loan companies but which exercised greater diligence than Aviva.  He is also currently being investigated for the fraud against Aviva.

The police have already indicated that they will want to speak to Aviva and in fact the police have already been provided with a copy of the ombudsman’s decision because it contains a very comprehensive account of the events which led to the setting up of the fraudulent policy.

 

This letter is intended to decline to accept your decision

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

@BankFodder independent assessors letter

Quote

 

Dear Independent assessor

 

I am writing to escalate my service complaint to the independent assessor which I originally made to Idil Badar on the 17th June I received an email from him detailing a service manager will be in touch with myself shortly. I have received no further contact from the Financial Ombudsman Service since 18th June.

I voiced concerns about the level of service I received from the financial ombudsman service I was told a manager would be in touch shortly once I put the service complaint in and they will go through next steps with me. To date I have received no call or email since 18th June.  I feel the FOS are breaching their rules as they have not been in contact with myself  I am very worried that my complaint is not being handled or even acknowledged which is the reason why I am bringing it to the attention of the independent assessor.

I would like my complaint to be dealt with within the timescales specified . I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

 

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Because this is the final letter declining the decision, some of what you have put is not appropriate because it is now too late to suggest other courses of action.

I've edited it appropriately

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I think in the letter to the independent assessor you should tell them that you have already tried to make a complaint to the ombudsman with the intention that it should go to the independent assessor and despite undertakings on the telephone, you have not received any acknowledgement or any timescale and you are worried now that in fact the matter is not being dealt with and that the FOS is avoiding sending it to the independent assessor

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