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Aviva ignored signs of financial abuse by sibling and supported by FOS


Titchytitch
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Good idea above.

You should certainly be asking the police to take an interest in the fraudulent insurance application. I'm a bit surprised that they seem to be investigating the other issues but they are dealing with your insurance problem.

If they going to charge him then of course it would be great if they were charging for that as well or else you could ask the police with it might be possible to bring it up as a TIC – offence taken into consideration.

Even if he could ask for the policy fraud to be taken into consideration as a TIC when it comes to sentencing, then I think it would be very helpful.

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@unclebulgaria67 @BankFodder the police are aware of the aviva fraud since 2020 when it first happened and the complaint now again was aviva with the statutory report showing additional loans being taken out so "identity theft" 

I just need to write a letter to the all concerned contacts tahg I have at Aviva to say I won't be paying the debt as we discussed yesterday and to give permission to PC to then email them that it's all bring investigated and not to take any further action  just buys me a bit more time and I can do everything else in terms of SAR rejection unfair treatment claim etc in the background 

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I understood that the Aviva fraud that occurred much earlier than that. When the policy was first taken out fraudulently

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@BankFodder yes it did and action fraud had no line of investigation so the police didn't do anything they closed the enquiry 

So I then took the complaint to the ombudsman 

Once the ombudsman didn't uphold the complaint I took out a statutory report and it showed the additional companies the lady at experian told me to take it up with the police again , when I did the police officer was surprised at aviva and the ombudsman so theyve included it all again and reopened the case 

Does that make sense?

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It makes sense just about.

I think you could asked the police officer if they are going to charge him for your insurance fraud – and if not if there is any possibility of asking him if he would be prepared to admit to it as a TIC on the basis that if he didn't, then he might be charged with it later on as a further offence.

I would have thought it would be in his interest at least to admit to it as a TIC and if you could get the police to confirm that it was a TIC in relation to that particular offence, I think this would be extremely helpful. Of course it would be more helpful if he was specifically charged with that offence and then pleaded guilty. I think it would also be helpful if it would be possible to get a statement from him that you won't at all involved later on because one of the ombudsman's speculations was that you came complicit in it because they say you didn't respond to communications from Aviva

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A TIC – "Taken Into Consideration".

Where they don't have evidence to charge him at the moment, but they consider that it is an outstanding offence, they give him an opportunity to admit to TIC's and in that case they will be taken into account at sentencing and the police basically close the file on the matter. It's a way of avoiding a conviction, showing a bit of remorse by admitting two offences which haven't been fully proved yet, and making sure they don't come back to haunt you later.

Speak to the police officer about it

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@BankFodder is this ok to send to all contacts at aviva regarding the final notification debt letter theyve sent

 

I received your correspondence regarding the notice of debt dated 8th June received 12th June giving me 7 days to make payment.

I don’t owe this money and the policy was taken out by my brother by a fraud in which you were complicit. The police are aware I have a crime reference number 1XXXXX this fraud is being investigated by PC XX, she will be emailing yourselves I give full authorisation for her to discuss any aspects of this case with yourselves.

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Posted (edited)

Rejection letter to be sent to the FOS

 

I am declining your decision of 13th April for the following reasons:

 

Much of your decision is predicated on your view that Aviva had a “process” in place and that they followed this process and as a result their decision to enter an insurance contract in 2015 despite their misgivings was fair.

 

1.      Nowhere in your decision have you explained what the process was and whether in fact the process was fair. Clearly your view is that with regards to that process, all that was needed was for Aviva apparently to follow this process and any outcome would be fair and regardless of the fairness of the process.

 

2.      On 2 June 2021 I received a telephone call from the Aviva complaint team. During the conversation, they informed me that in fact that in 2015 the call handler had been wrong and had not followed the correct process. The Aviva caller told me that it was not part of the process for the call handler in 2015 to refer her suspicions to her manager.

Clearly, if the call handler in 2015 had adhered to the correct process and allowed herself to be guided by her own suspicions then Aviva would not have agreed to provide the insurance cover and they would not have become the victim of fraud.

In fact what we find is that the correct process and the very serious suspicions of the call handler were overridden by a manager.

Evidntly either Aviva has misled you as to the nature of the process or else they have not disclosed their process to you.

It may even be that Aviva does not have a written “process”. They only have “a way of doing things”.

If it is correct that you have not seen the Aviva process but have simply taken their word for it, then it is clear that your investigation is flawed and your decision has fallen short by any reasonable standards.

If on the other hand Aviva has misled you as to the nature of the process, then I think you have a very serious issue with Aviva.

I believe that you have never once seen the “process” upon which you are purporting to rely upon in your decision.

You may be interested to know that the man who defrauded Aviva also attempted to use my identity to defraud a number of loan companies. I’m pleased to say that all of those companies exercised sufficient diligence that they did not become victims of the fraud.

Only Aviva failed to exercise proper care and allowed themselves to be defrauded.

You may also be interested to know that the police have interviewed me and they have interviewed my brother and they are preparing to charge my brother in respect of his fraudulent activity.

I am under no suspicion whatsoever. The police have informed me that they will be speaking with Aviva facing fairly soon.

 

 

There are many other reasons why I am refusing to accept your decision. All the other reasons turn on the fairness of your decision but the reasons above go to the heart of your own investigative process and the quality of your decision.

It is not insignificant that I have submitted a Freedom of Information Act request and also a Data Protection Subject Access Request to you and so far you have failed to respond within statutory deadlines.

I have also sent Aviva a Subject Access Request and they have extended the deadline for compliance by a full two months for spurious reasons which I do not believe.

I have also asked Aviva for sight of their policies and procedures in respect of the rules that they apply to their customers for the setting up of new business.  Needless to say I have received no response.

The Aviva website makes a show of being aware of the dangers of domestic financial abuse and they trumpet their association with the organisation Surviving Economic Abuse and they say that their staff are all trained in spotting the signs.

I have asked to see their abuse policy and I have received no response.

None of this is surprising.

 

 It is clear that Aviva have acted carelessly. They were suspicious but preferred to get the new business.  Aviva are complicit victims of the fraud.

It is Aviva which is the victim of fraud but they prefer to try and avoid their responsibility and pass the buck onto me.

I’m pointing out that it is Aviva which is the victim of fraud because I can state categorically now that I have no intention of paying any of the money which Aviva is demanding of me.

I notice that Aviva prefers to harass me for an alleged debt rather than simply bring a claim in the County Court where an impartial judge would look at all the evidence including information which so far Aviva has declined to disclose.

 

This letter is intended to decline to accept your decision but also is intended to be my formal complaint which I wish to be escalated to the Independent Assessor.

Please confirm receipt of this complaint, that it is being forwarded and  provide me with any policies and guidelines to the Independent Assessor route and also let me know the timescales involved.

I will want to provide further information to the Independent Assessor.

 

Yours faithfully

Edited by BankFodder
edits and corrections in red
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I suggest that we think about sending it off on Wednesday. That will give us a little opportunity to tweak it and you may even have some more news from the police.

In respect of the police, I suggest
 

Quote

Dear WPC XXX

Thank you for letting me know that you intend interviewing my brother with a view to charging him for fraud.

As you know, my brother also used the my identity to take out a fraudulent insurance policy with Aviva insurance company in 2015.

This has created huge problems for me. Aviva have decided that I conspired with my brother in the insurance policy fraud. They consider that letters which were sent to me over the period from the inception of the policy until last year must have been brought to my notice and therefore I was actually involved in some kind of conspiracy with my brother.
Of course this is completely untrue, most of the communications were not received by me and some of them were sent to a portal to which I had no access and to which eventually Aviva blocked all access anyway once they realised that the policy had been taken out fraudulently.

Aviva are now claiming money from me even though it is they who were defrauded.

I have now discovered that the call handler who set up the policy apparently expressed misgivings and was suspicious about the circumstances and at first was reluctant to open the policy but her suspicions were overridden by a manager.
Clearly Aviva exercised less diligence than the loan companies which my brother also attempted to defraud using my identity.

I have complained to Aviva and also to the Financial Ombudsman Service that they have both held against me. 

If you feel that there could be any grounds to their suspicions, then I would certainly be grateful if you would interview me specifically on this matter so that I can provide the reassurances that were satisfy you.

I do not know whether you are intending to charge my brother in respect of that motor insurance policy fraud, but if you are not then maybe you will think that it is appropriate to include that in your questioning of him and then either to charge him or at the very least may be to suggest to him that this should be dealt with as a TIC (offence Taken into Consideration).

Also, it may be helpful to you if you contacted Aviva and told them of your suspicions. They will probably be able to give you more information about the offence then I am able to provide to you.
The insurance reference number is XXX and the Aviva customer services telephone number that I have is XXX – although you may well have a better means of access than me.


 

 

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Yes good idea. Send a copy to everyone

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That's good news.

In that case, don't send the letter yet – although do send the one to the police.

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@BankFodder the police officer has contacted aviva her response below she has asked  them to hold on the money front 

 

 

AVIVA have replied and i have requested to put the request for money on hold so fingers crossed this request is accepted.

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Good news. Have you got a copy of the message she sent or have you got a copy of the message they reply to her with?

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When it might be an idea if you sent a message and asked if she would be prepared to share with you what the reply was from Aviva.

Tell her that's important because you are trying to recover from all the allegations of fraud and the damage to your credit file

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Following Police contact with an Insurer, it can take a few days before they decide what to do.  Even with a very large Insurance company such as Aviva, the team that handles enquiries from Police will be quite small.  But they will have fairly senior stafff, who can decide what they need to do. 

 

I would say that Aviva should not be processing any data to credit reference agencies regarding any debt and if they have processed any data, they should remove this from your record.  I would suggest that you make this clear to Aviva, just in case you have not already done so.

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I suddenly thought that it might be an idea to send the following letter to the ombudsman service. Apart from anything else, they don't seem to have provided you with a date for declining their decision. I understand from you that they have simply said that they will extend until the subject access request has been satisfied.
 

Quote

Dear XXX

 

Reference number XXX

 

Thank you for your confirmation of a further extension of the deadline for acceptance or refusal of your decision.

You say that you are prepared to extend the deadline till after the subject access request has been satisfied.

As I’ve already indicated, I would probably need about 14 days to understand the information that I will be provided with.

Would it be possible to give me a firm date.

 

Separately, I think it’s important that I bring a significant development to your attention. I understand that you are not in a position to change your decision but you should be aware of the following:

 

On 2 June 2021 I received a telephone call from the Aviva complaint team. During the conversation, they informed me that in fact that in 2015 the call handler had been wrong and had not followed the correct process. The Aviva caller told me that it was not part of the process for the call handler in 2015 to refer her suspicions to her manager.

Clearly, if the call handler in 2015 had adhered to the correct process and allowed herself to be guided by her own suspicions then Aviva would not have agreed to provide the insurance cover and they would not have become the victim of fraud.

In fact what we find is that the correct process and the very serious suspicions of the call handler were overridden by a manager.

Evidently either Aviva has misled you as to the nature of the process or else they have not disclosed their process to you.

It may even be that Aviva does not have a written “process”. They only have “a way of doing things”.

I’m afraid I would venture to suggest that the Financial Ombudsman Service has not had sight of the Aviva process – if any such “process” indeed exists.

It may well be that you have simply taken Aviva on trust as to this matter.

If on the other hand Aviva has misled you as to the nature of the process, then I think you have a very serious issue with Aviva.

 

I am expecting that the recording of this phone call will be provided to me when Aviva eventually complies with the statutory request for data disclosure although so far, there are causing unwarranted delays.

You may well want to hear this recording yourself and so I’m making it clear now that I’m authorising you to request a copy of the recording from Aviva. I am happy that they share it with you – and indeed I think that you should ask for it and that they must provide to you given that your decision in my complaint rests so heavily on the fact that Aviva followed their “process”.

If I manage to obtain a copy of this recording for myself, I will certainly pass a copy onto you.

 

Yours faithfully

 

 

FOS Aviva letter.docx

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Yes, I think that letter which doesn't actually deal with the decision yet but simply asks for confirmation of the date – but most importantly suggest to the FOS that they've been misled would be useful.

Maybe the FOS simply won't take any notice of it but at least they've been put on notice and when your complaint eventually goes to the Independent Assessor, we can show that the FOS have been made fully aware of everything.

If the FOS does take notice – then maybe they will challenge Aviva about what has happened.

Although the FOS wouldn't change decision, because the decision has not been finalised, I suppose that the only possible solution now is that Aviva withdraws the matter from the FOS before the decision is finalised. That would probably take a miracle for it to happen – but you never know.

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