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Aviva ignored signs of financial abuse by sibling and supported by FOS


Titchytitch
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@BankFodder have you seen this ? 

Sally Hamilton was deputy personal finance editor at the Mail on Sunday for six years, winning several awards for her work, including the British Insurance Brokers' (BIBA) Journalist of the year 2017 and the Headlinemoney Financial Health and LIfe Insurance Journalist of the Year 2018 and 2019. Now she is the Telegraph's consumer champion, fighting your money battles and holding companies to account. Contact her: [email protected]

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If you think she might help then go ahead and contact – but am afraid that these people are overrun with cases and now that the FOS has found against you, it is far too complicated for her to deal with.

Most of the newspapers have somebody like this and they cherry pick the cases. As I say, go ahead if you want that I really doubt very much whether it will make any difference.

I'm afraid the best thing to do is wait for the information to come – or not come. See what the FOS says to your request for a further extension. Unknown to Aviva, they have already provided us with an excellent basis for objecting to the FOS decision. Of course the FOS will take no notice but we will get it down on paper. We will get it into their file.

 

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@BankFodder I'm completely new to all of this jusg been a straight and simple law abiding citizen all this has completely thrown me 

I'm clinging on to you and the rest of this group as a glimmer of hope I cant thank you enough for supporting me through this 

 

 

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😀👍

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@BankFodder response from FOS

 

I wanted to let you know that Katie who was the investigator for your complaint has left our service and your case has been allocated to myself. 

 

I note that an Ombudsman issued a final decision on 13 April, and requested that you confirm if you accept or reject the decision by 11 May. Katie agreed to extend this deadline and my understanding is that you're currently awaiting a subject access request from our service. You've agreed to provide a response after you've had the chance to review the case file so you can make a informed decision. 

 

Before I agree to your extension request I think it would be helpful to explain our service's process. Once a complaint is reviewed by an Ombudsman and a final decision is issued this is the end of our process and we do not have a further appeals process in place. The Ombudsman has based the outcome on the evidence we have on file, and after a final decision is issued we would not be able to revisit a complaint and consider any new points or supporting evidence. 

 

Although we do request that consumer's confirm whether they accept or reject a final decision, the response does not have a bearing on the outcome reached and by this I mean that even if you were to still disagree, we wouldn't be able to reconsider the complaint. Your acceptance would only impact your legal rights, which means that if you do not accept the Ombudsman's decision, the decision is not legally binding and it will not impact your legal rights to to pursue the matter in court if you wish to do so. If you accept the decision it does become legally binding.

 

I hope this explanation was helpful, if you still feel that the complaint should remain open until your subject access request is processed please let me know why and I would be happy to consider your reasons. I would be grateful if you could provide a response at your earliest convenience and no later than 14 June, if you need more time please get in touch before this date. 

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Write and tell them that you would be grateful for the extension as they appeared to have fully appreciated your reasons for asking for the extension and which is simply because you are now having to depend on their extension – not only of the subject access request but also of the Freedom of information act request – neither of which have been satisfied so far within the statutory time.

You feel that it's important that if you do decide to object to the decision then it is important that they are fully informed as to the reasons why and you believe that their files on you and also in respect of the policies and so forth that they apparently implement, what you may have to say will be important.

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Posted (edited)

@BankFodder is this ok to send?

 

Thank you for your email and prompt response dated 7th June.

 

I would be very grateful for the extension as Katie had appeared to have fully appreciated my  reasons for asking for the extension and which is simply because I am now having to depend on your extension – not only of the subject access request but also of the Freedom of information act request – neither of which have been satisfied so far within the statutory time

 

I feel that it's important that if I do decide to object to the decision then it is important that all concerned parties are fully informed as to the reasons why and I believe that their files on me and also in respect of the policies and so forth that they apparently implement, what I may have to say will be important.

 

An extension would be greatly appreciated so I can make an informed decision to accept or object the decision.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

 

@BankFodder letter from Aviva

 Thank  you  for  contacting  us  regarding  the  decision  made  in  respect  of  your  complaint.

  From  reviewing  your  concerns,  specifically  relating  to  case  ...... these  have  already  been reviewed  by  us  and  the  Ombudsman.  

 

The  points  raised  relating  to  the  default  letters  being  pursued,  the  service  provided,  and  data  protection were  all  acknowledged  within  the  decision.  Therefore,  we  will  not  be  providing  any  further  review  on these  issues.  

 

The  information  you  have  asked  us  to  review  has  not  changed  my  decision.  I  appreciate  this  may  not be  the  outcome  you  wanted  but  the  complaint  followed  the  escalation  process.    

 

Please  refer  to  the  Financial  Ombudsman  Service  communication  dated  13  April  2021  where  they  have provided  you  with  the  outcome  of  your  complaint  escalation.  If  you  remain  unhappy  with  this  decision, this  must  be  discussed  with  the  Ombudsman.            

 

Yours  sincerely, 

 

@BankFodder this was sent on email with the letter attached in post #333 

 

Thank you for contacting us regarding your complaint(s) with us. In reference to complaint ...20, I have attached a letter clarifying our position on that case.

 

You do have another case under ...21, which you have referenced in your communication with us. We appreciate you have requested an update on your data request.

 

Our data team have confirmed, an email was issued to you on 25 May 2021 confirming an extension of the timescales for the request. The data request is currently being reviewed and has been extended under GDPR permissions by two months. The data team will be in contact with the details of your request in due course.

Edited by Titchytitch
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@BankFodder any thoughts on the below please ?

 

@BankFodder letter from Aviva

 Thank  you  for  contacting  us  regarding  the  decision  made  in  respect  of  your  complaint.

  From  reviewing  your  concerns,  specifically  relating  to  case  ...... these  have  already  been reviewed  by  us  and  the  Ombudsman.  

 

The  points  raised  relating  to  the  default  letters  being  pursued,  the  service  provided,  and  data  protection were  all  acknowledged  within  the  decision.  Therefore,  we  will  not  be  providing  any  further  review  on these  issues.  

 

The  information  you  have  asked  us  to  review  has  not  changed  my  decision.  I  appreciate  this  may  not be  the  outcome  you  wanted  but  the  complaint  followed  the  escalation  process.    

 

Please  refer  to  the  Financial  Ombudsman  Service  communication  dated  13  April  2021  where  they  have provided  you  with  the  outcome  of  your  complaint  escalation.  If  you  remain  unhappy  with  this  decision, this  must  be  discussed  with  the  Ombudsman.            

 

Yours  sincerely, 

 

@BankFodder this was sent on email with the letter attached in post #333 

 

Thank you for contacting us regarding your complaint(s) with us. In reference to complaint ...20, I have attached a letter clarifying our position on that case.

 

You do have another case under ...21, which you have referenced in your communication with us. We appreciate you have requested an update on your data request.

 

Our data team have confirmed, an email was issued to you on 25 May 2021 confirming an extension of the timescales for the request. The data request is currently being reviewed and has been extended under GDPR permissions by two months. The data team will be in contact with the details of your request in due course.

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All a predictable load of flannel.

They are just trying to be obstructive – there is nothing we can do unfortunately.

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@BankFodder I'm assuming they're going to continue to send me defaults do I just ignore to the point they take me to court or do I wait to see what the FOS says if they will provide an extension 

I find it ironic how aviva say I have to discuss with the FOS and they are saying that its the end of the road so both being useless and me being no better off after 18mths

I did ring the police a couple of days ago for an update still awaiting the callback 

 

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Yes I would say the best thing to do is ignore.

Please do be aware, that this is a very difficult situation and I've already pointed out to you that there is a very high chance that eventually you won't be able to do anything about it – even though it's obviously extremely unfair and clearly Aviva are at fault.

You have been the victim of Aviva's own sloppy procedure – which is probably motivated by greed and also the financial ombudsman service sloppy and half-hearted investigation.

Have you had any news from the police?

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@BankFodder so would I eventually have to pay the amount they're chasing me for ?

No news with the police they said they were extremely busy prioritising other cases but the PC would get back to me in due course 

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I'm afraid I don't know where is all going to lead at the moment.

What I'm proposing is that once you have formally declined the ombudsman decision – with your objections. And once also you have (hopefully) got some useful information from both of them, that we may consider bringing a case for unfair treatment against Aviva.

This is some time away though because of the Aviva extension. I can fully imagine that eventually Aviva will come back and refuse to give you any information at all on the basis that it is disproportionately expensive.

In terms of how to deal with money demands, of course if they sued you then that would be excellent. However, I can imagine that they will review their own behaviour in it and they would prefer not to have the whole matter scrutinised before a judge. I can't imagine for a moment that they will begin any legal actions against you – but you shouldn't worry if they did. It would be extremely good news for you.

Rather than have the matter open to independent scrutiny by a judge where you would see exactly the evidence that they will rely upon and their procedures et cetera – all of which are not available to you through the FOS process, Aviva would prefer simply to harass you for several years with threats and threats of debt collectors and then eventually write it off and set off against tax.

However, when we start dealing with debt matters on this then the best thing to do would be to start a completely new thread because really there is a separate topic. I expect that my site team colleague @dx100uk will be very pleased to help you on the debt issues. But I don't think we are ready yet.

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I don't think there's anything you can do about that.

Obviously you don't want to pay – and you shouldn't have to.

I would simply write them a reply

Quote

I don't owe this money and the policy was taken out by my brother by a fraud in which you were complicit.

The police are aware – crime number reference number XXX.

 

 

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@BankFodder should I mention  police are actively investigating the frauds 

On top of which list the companies who've marked accounts as fronted... And fraudulent

Something aviva, are cant comprehend or understand

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I can't see much point in giving them a list of the other companies.

What have you tell Aviva they won't pay any attention. They're on a mission

I'm afraid I don't know what else to tell them at the moment. I think the only thing you can do is wait until they eventually satisfy the SAR – or find some other excuse and that some point you will need to think about suing them for unfair treatment which may make them look at how they have behaved and take some action.

Any say that if that doesn't work, then I'm afraid you may well be stuck with it and you will have to wait until it all falls off your credit file.

It's a terrible situation to be in but I don't know what else to say.

What is happening about the fraud investigation? If the police were really serious they would have arrested him and charged him by now – I'm afraid I'm a bit suspicious about the police in this as well

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@BankFodder can we start the unfair treatment case now at all or will we need to wait for the SAR 

I'm currently on the phone to them.as we speak last time I got an update she said she was reviewing all the evidence and then will be arresting him 

I rang on Monday and was waiting for callback not heard anything so back on to them again

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I think it's important to go very carefully on an ICOBS case. I'm afraid that I think it is worth gathering the information that you can and certainly if the police arrest and charge your brother then this will help.

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@BankFodder theuve sent another message to the PC and have asked me to ring back in a few hours when she's on duty and they might be able to transfer me through to her I'll keep you posted  thank you x

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@BankFodder I've just spoken to the PC she has submitted everything to the economic crime unit once she hears back from them,  she will be arresting and interviewing him , the file will then go to the CPS she said they can take 4/5mths to review and it'll go to court for him to be convicted and charged 

She also said if I write to aviva and give permission for her to speak to them she will try and get aviva to hold off from selling debt onto 3rd party and they will need to wait till investigation is complete 

She has also said its going to be quote a lengthy process 

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Aviva wont sell 'the debt' anywhere. theres no evidence they have ever sold such 'debts' on.

 

i'm also unsure how a PC can categorically state he will be arrested when they are awaiting the CPS to decide if the case goes anywhere

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Going back quite a long time ago while working in Insurance and occasionally dealing with issues of fraud, we would have contact with Police Officers.  We would be requested to take no actions on Insurance policy records, while there was an investigation ongoing. If there was then going to be a court case, the Insurance record is then marked "do not touch, await outcome of Court process" or words to the same effect. The record is then dealt with by a team at the Insurance company who liase with Police and provide any information.

 

So once the Brother is interviewed, if the Police do decide to take forward, I think you should be asking the Police to contact the Insurance companies involved to stop them continuing to take administrative actions on the policy records including contacting you.

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