Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • Hi   I assume this mattress was the Tenants own property?   So after moving out the Tenants provided an attachment showing a stained mattress and wanting full deposit back and threatening to claim against you for this.   1. Tenants failed to notify you of this stained mattress issue until the end of tenancy after they had vacated the property.   2. You have no evidence that this was the actual mattress used in that property nor evidence to back up there claim the staining caused this mattress damage.  (i.e. one of them could have had an accident and wet the bed or done this when they moved from the property).     3. Ask them that you wish the mattress independently inspected. (which you are fully entitled to do and if it proves this claim is false it will be added to the deposit claim by you the landlord for damages as well as the Garden if you need to get landscapers in to carry out the work that should have been carried out by Tenants as per Tenacy Agreement and raised  by yourself (Landlord) on a few occasions which Tenants failed to rectify even at end of tenancy.   4. Ask them to provide you with the contact details of there Contents Insurance Company (tenants whether Private or Social Housing should always take out and have Contents Insurance but is up to that tenant) bet they don't provide it Big question is the Deposit protected in a Tenancy Deposit Scheme (TDS) and those Tenants that have left were given a copy of the Prescribed Terms for that TDS? (Bear in mind you may need to tell TDS that you are in dispute with the Tenant about damages i.e. mattress and Garden)    
    • plenty of time to research and calm down. nothing much to do until the end of june.    
    • well ...... 1st you need to go back to post 1 and carefully read ALL this thread from the start again and pay attention to the advice and the undertones it explains about 'debt'.   2nd ...the truth is you owe no-one ANYTHING, the OC wrote off and sold the debt, and got most of it back against tax and business insurance schemes ...throw the morality card out the window...the OC did by selling the debt on for <10p=£1. and the DCa want the full balance ...id so many fools stopped paying powerless DCA's tomorrow, the whole industry would collapse overnight.   3rd the only reason this is still around your neck is because you failed to follow given advice...had you ..it would now be statute barred.      ^^^ very important research the M+S credit card debacle using our enhanced google searchbox on this page   as for the PAPLOC reply,   D.. desipte a previous CCA requests, the claimant has yet to supply any/all of the required paperwork.   i: delete [CC is attached to this reply form]"   
    • Hi again   Yes, it's been a lovely day weather wise.   Guess you've better things to do with weather like today than help with this problem, so thanks very much for your input, it's very much appreciated.   Late this afternoon I did receive a reply from the tenants, and they are asking me to go 50/50 with getting the garden sorted, not only that, as they have moved away they are expecting me to get the quotes.   Regarding you view on this issue, its so easy not to see the whole picture and my thoughts that the staining damp may be of their own doing didn't occur to me as I was so locked into the historical leak. Taking a closer look at the room in question today, I'm convinced that they are trying it on with the stained mattress- they did mail through a picture and then a receipt for supposedly the mattress. My wife and I then took both the pic and receipt to the bedding store where purchase was made to ask if the two married up, the picture does not show any emblems/manufactures logo or such to prove that this is the case, so we are none the wiser- our thoughts being that the stained mattress is from elsewhere.   A few days back I spoke to our letting agent regarding all of this, as was quite correctly mentioned there are two parts to this equation, namely the mattress and then the property.   Our agents mentioned to me that as an inventory was not carried out initially with the let, (hindsight) the pictures that were used to advertise the property could not be used as evidence to present to the TDS to be compared to the pictures now as there is no proof that the advertising pictures were in fact how the property was when the let started. I mentioned that all digital pictures have a means of finding when that pic was taken- Geo tag/Metadata- agent was quite surprised by this. The agents thoughts then went for a hide in a vacuum-   This is going off at a tangent here-many moons ago my wife studied computer science at a local University, one of her classmates who she is still in touch with is now a practising Solicitor. My wife suggested that maybe I give her a call, a bit rude I guess, but I did  phone and with the pleasantries out the way  I asked for her opinion of the best way to get this sorted. Her remit isn't landlord type stuff, however she will speak to a colleague on Monday and come back to me.   The property is due to be relet on the 21st, we will ensure that the new tenants move in to a home that is immaculate and welcoming, trouble is its getting a tadge close to get the garden issues sorted in time.   I know that all this will get closure in the end, but at the moment I've had more fun with a toothpick-   Again, many thanks.
    • The collection is currently stored at curator James Blower's home, but he has now found a space situated in an old bank premises where he hopes to exhibit them from this autumn or early next year. View the full article
  • Recommended Topics

  • Our picks

  • Recommended Topics

Issue with a table saw....damaged


Recommended Posts

So I treated myself to a table saw that I wanted for quite sometime. However the first one that I ordered finally arrived and was damaged.  It was damaged from the factory as someone had attempted to mask the damage by painting over it in the colour the surface is. 

 

However, after some back and forth I managed to get them to order a replacement, the replacement also arrived damaged. Now they have no stock to replace it with. They have told me they will refund it and I have to go buy it from somewhere else. 

 

The issue I have here is that I paid in vouchers so I can't do that. I would prefer to keep the item but I want something knocked off for it being damaged. They have stated they wont do that.  

I wanted to understand fully my position and what I can do?  

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Although you have paid in vouchers, I don't see that it is at all unreasonable to expect a refund in cash. If they aren't able to provide a replacement in proper condition – then that is tough on them.

However, you can be certain that they won't like it and they will drag their feet.

What company you are dealing with and how much money are we talking about?

Also can you give us a timeline please

Link to post
Share on other sites

The item is from amazon - https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07RWCCT7P

 

The original order was placed on the 8 March 2021, this order was cancelled as there was a technical issue with its despatch.

 

A replacement order was created 27 March 2021, this arrived damaged on the aluminium table top.  A replacement item was ordered, this was placed on 8 April 2021. This also arrived damaged in a similar way, the item has not been returned.  

 

Amazon still get confused with the first order as they keep stating for me to send it back (courier hasn't been to pick it up yet). As I contact them and ask them to resolve the situation all they do on chat is tell me to send it back to the. They advise they will escalate it to another department but as with today the latest reply was please use the label to return the item for a refund. 

 

Yet I have repeatedly stated in the chat this doesn't concern the original item which you have not collected yet, but the replacement. Which they state they will escalate. I just seem to go round in circles. 

 

The item was purchased at the time for £272.00

 

It was paid entirely in vouchers. 

 

They tell me that I can buy it again from another seller but I can't go elsewhere as it is in vouchers.  

 

I did attempt to contact Bosch and explain the situation, they did state they should be able to collect it and replace the top.  However, they haven't come back to me, I did chase them today but no response as yet. 

 

To be honest I am frustrated and at this stage the effort and time I have spent I would prefer to get my money back (as cash) and go buy a Dewalt one!

 

What is more frustrating is that Amazon (trying to be the most customer focused company as they keep telling me) are abysmal at handling anything other than the support from the idiots on the chat/phone.  There is no formal complaints process to escalate the issue. 

 

How best should I approach this?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Why haven't you returned this one? And how much would it cost to buy one elsewhere?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The second one?  The first one they haven't collected it is still sitting here waiting for Hermes to pick it up. 

 

The second they didn't offer a returns label yet, to be honest they have done nothing with it. 

 

If I stick with the same model around £320 ish at the moment, if I change to the Dewalt (amazon don't sell it) £500 ish but it is a completely different model and better. 

 

However in either instance I have to be given cash to put towards it not amazon vouchers.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm losing track of this. You tell me that you now have two of these at home?

Also, how did you get the vouchers?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, I have two of these currently at home - the first one they have still not collected and the second one that was the replacement that also arrived damaged but they haven't arranged a collection or done anything with. 

 

The vouchers were redeemed through a third party - they were just payment for participation in something - I had a choice of what to convert them to. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm going to take a little while to think about what you have told us and the best advice to give you.
However, I would certainly caution you not to return either item unless the arrangements have been made by Amazon and you are using their prepaid labels.
Do not at some point decide to make your own arrangements to return the items because if they then happen to be lost en route to Amazon, Amazon will disclaim any responsibility and you will have even more problems than you already do.

You have paid for only one of them with vouchers. The other one, I gather, has not been paid for at all. Do Amazon hold your credit card details?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that whatever you eventually do, because you are within 30 days of the delivery of each damaged table saw, you should assert your right to reject them under the Consumer Rights Act. You wouldn't normally need to do this with Amazon – but I think that it is a prudent thing to do in the circumstances and it protects your position in case there is any question arrived in the future.

So I suggest for the moment that you send to letters – separate envelopes – to Amazon identifying the items by their invoice reference number or whatever and that they have arrived in a damage date and because you are reacting within 30 days, you are now formally rejecting the items under the consumer rights act 2015 and that Amazon should make immediate arrangements to collect the items from you.

As I have said, send the letters separately – but also try to confirm by sending Amazon an email using their contact system and maybe some other email address – keep copies of everything.
The letters of rejection should be sent at least by recorded delivery.

What is interesting here is that you have spent vouchers on an item which was sold to you at £272. Looking at the link you have posted, it now appears that the price has increased to £359 and so there is no doubt in my mind that you should be entitled to a Bosch table saw even though it is now that price.
The objective of contract damages is to put you into the position that you would have been if the contract had not been breached. This means that your expectation at the end of a successful transaction would be to be in possession of a Bosch table saw. If that means that it is going to take £359 to put you into that post-contract position, then so be it.
If you are prepared to accept a Bosch table saw instead of the DeWalt one which you apparently now prefer, then even if you found one elsewhere at say, £400, you will be entitled to claim the cost of that from Amazon.

It gets a bit more complicated if you singly want your money back. If you want your money back then I think that you are only entitled to the value of the vouchers. If Amazon are unable to supply the saw table then it seems to me that you are entitled to receive the cash – and of course that is where Amazon will grind their heels in to the point where you may have to bring a small claim against them for the value of the vouchers.
If this is what eventually happened – that you had to issue a court claim – then I think you are not looking at any resolution in the very near future. I can imagine that Amazon would object and muster a lot of energy to defending the claim. I can imagine that it would go on for at least six months and maybe more.
I think you need to factor this delay into your calculations about how to deal with this.

So I think broadly the position is that if you want the DeWalt then we can probably help you get your £272 cash which you could use to pay towards the DeWalt – but it will take quite a bit of time.

If you are prepared to settle for a Bosch table saw then in the event that Amazon are unable to supply one, I think that you could quite reasonably source one elsewhere and if it was more expensive, one Amazon that this is what you are going to do and that you would be looking to them for the full reimbursement. This also would take quite a few months.
I notice that one of Amazon's third-party sellers is selling a Bosch table saw for £429. Of course to buy this quickly, you would have to fork out the money now and then start claiming against Amazon.

The problem of dealing with Amazon is that although they are generally speaking excellent, when things go wrong, they become very difficult to deal with. They are so huge that they don't act rationally in an economic kind of way.
Amazon are not used to being pushed around and they don't have the mechanism for dealing with things. They don't seem to be able to escalate things rapidly to a responsible human person who will look at the problem and understand the principles. It's all done by procedures and that means it becomes very cumbersome to deal with.

I've given a pretty convoluted reply here. Have a look and tell me how I can clarify things that you don't understand



 

Link to post
Share on other sites

On a side note – I think that if they didn't collect the items from you within the next seven days, then particularly given their size and weight – about 26 kg each – I would put Amazon on notice that I was going to be charging them storage.

I think £5 per day is probably not unreasonable – although don't expect Amazon to be happy about it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the very thorough response. 

 

To be honest, I didn't think it was going to be easy, never is and especially not with a company like Amazon who as you state don't have the process in place to escalate to a human to understand this. Merely having a 'bod' on chat who seemingly just regurgitates what the computer tells them to say. 

 

(Side note) - I also noticed we are no longer included in ADR schemes on the amazon web pages for the UK. 

 

To also clarify amazon have issued a returns label on the first damaged table saw, but this has not been collected by Hermes yet. It is currently sitting downstairs occupying 'space' along with the second one.

 

I would be happy to settle for a Bosch table saw.  They told me they can't order a new one as it is out of stock.  I think it is more prudent to stick to getting a Bosch Table saw in this instance and for amazon to supply it one way or another. 

 

Also I wanted to add something, I have spoken to Bosch themselves and they criticised amazons behaviour in this, they said they are looking at picking up the table saw and replacing the top that is damaged under warranty.  However this will take around 4-6 weeks (at the moment this is an option Bosch are looking into themselves independent of amazon).  If I do go down this option can I get any discount legally from amazon for the hassle?  Or is it still better to peruse them directly and not do this?

 

Thanks in advance

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Earlier on you said that you had contacted Bosch but they had stopped getting in contact with you. Has that changed?

I asked you earlier on if Amazon had your credit card details? I'm concerned that if they think that you have two table saws which you haven't returned, that they will then request a payment against your card.
We will have to prevent that.

Have you sent the letters rejection which I recommended?

It seems to me that if Bosch are prepared to help you then although it's going to take some time, the quickest thing might be to let them replace the damaged part so the least you can get on with what you're trying to do.

That would leave you with the remaining table saw – and let's say it's the one that Hermes were meant to be collecting and haven't – I would tend to inform Amazon that it is with you for collection and is waiting for them and if it's not collected in seven days then it will start to incur storage fees. At some point you should probably tell Amazon that you are going to sell it and after deducting the costs of the sale plus reasonable expenses for having gone through the trouble of selling it – you can offer Amazon the rest of the money.

At least this approach would get you a working table saw as quickly as possible – but according to you, up to 6 weeks from Bosch, and also allow you to claim some recompense from Amazon – and I'm quite sure that you would have to begin a legal action on this point but your chances of success would be extremely high.

The real problem here is that Amazon are so impenetrable


 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I didn't manage to speak to Bosch again, however I tried yesterday and they didn't call back.  I will call them again tomorrow.  I can also complete an online form to ask for a repair to the item.  However I will hold off on this and get them to do it verbally by calling tomorrow if I can, of course I will update. 

 

In the instance about the card, yes there is a card on the account. The only one on the account is an Amex which they can charge, I can remove it for the moment. 

 

In regards to the collection I spoke to them on chat and they have arranged another collection, however I did on this occasion take screen shots of the chat. 

 

In regards to the two letters, I will send the first tomorrow - I have drafted this....is this ok? 

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

REFERENCE:  (order No. /amazon.co.uk - Bosch Professional 0601B42070 GTS 635-216 Table Saw

I purchased a Bosch Professional 0601B42070 GTS 635-216 Table Saw  from 
amazon.co.uk. At the point of purchase I paid £271.99.

The Bosch Professional 0601B42070 GTS 635-216 Table Saw is not of satisfactory quality. The item arrived damaged. 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 makes it an implied term of the contract I have with 
amazon.co.uk that goods be as described, fit for purpose and of satisfactory quality.

As you are in breach of contract and I've owned the product for less than 30 days I am within my statutory rights to ask for a full refund of the original cost paid.

You have issued a returns label for the item but have failed to collect it, I have on numerous occasions requested the item be collected.  If this does not happen within the next seven days then I will begin to charge storage charges of £5 per day.

Yours faithfully,

Link to post
Share on other sites

The letter is broadly fine but you're not saying that you are asserting your right to reject the item. I think you should spell out them quite specifically

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Better?

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

REFERENCE:  (order No. /amazon.co.uk - Bosch Professional 0601B42070 GTS 635-216 Table Saw

I purchased a Bosch Professional 0601B42070 GTS 635-216 Table Saw  from 
amazon.co.uk. At the point of purchase I paid £271.99.

The Bosch Professional 0601B42070 GTS 635-216 Table Saw is not of satisfactory quality. The item arrived damaged. 

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 states that goods should be as described, of a satisfactory quality and fit for the purpose. As Bosch Professional 0601B42070 GTS 635-216 Table Saw is not, you are therefore in breach of contract and I would like to reject the goods and request that you issue me with a full refund as I am notifying you of my short-term right to reject within 30 days of receiving the good

You have issued a returns label for the item but have failed to collect it, I have on numerous occasions requested the item be collected. Although you issued a return label for the item on XXX date, it has still not been collected. As you are aware, this is an extremely large and heavy item.
If you do not collect the item by XXX date then I shall start to impose a storage charge of not happen within the next seven days then I will begin to charge storage charges of £5 per day and the item will not be released to you until you have provided me with written agreement that you will pay the charge.


Yours faithfully,

Edited by BankFodder
Amendments
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've made some amendments

Link to post
Share on other sites

Update - Contacted amazon again and they have booked another collection and sent me an email to state the same that it will be collected within three days.  I have today issued the letter also regarding this first order rejecting it and requiring collection within 7 days. 

 

In regards to the second/replacement order, Bosch confirmed they will collect the item and check it hasn't been damaged.  They stated they may or may not replace the top part as it is cosmetic and may not restrict the functionality or use of the appliance. However, they stated that they will test it regardless and if found further faults they will replace it under warranty. 

 

I will wait and see what they do

 

They did highlight the fact that amazon should if it is only cosmetic and I am willing to accept this then refund part of it as damaged goods. 

 

I will send the second letter out over the weekend so as not to 'confuse' amazon as they seem to get very confused regarding the second order and rejecting that one however I saw your amendments, do I reject this replacement order in the same way and demand they refund it or alter the text to demand a replacement that is undamaged?

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry but there is so much going on on the forum at the moment that I'm losing track and I'm becoming confused with your first table saw and your second table saw.

I understand that Amazon have now agreed to collect the first one – for the second time.

I understand that Bosch are proposing to collect the second one and to carry out some repairs or some checks.

I'm not quite sure what you are asking. If you manage to get rid of the first one and the second one is sorted out then it seems to me that your position is clear.

What have I not understood correctly?

Link to post
Share on other sites

You said in a previous post to reject both of them as they are under the 30 days. To send two letters to amazon rejecting the goods under the act. 

 

The first letter I have sent regarding the initial saw that amazon are going to collect (for a second time). 

 

Bosch today agreed to collect the saw but haven't categorically agreed to repair it if the damage is only cosmetic and the part to replace is expensive.

 

So as I am within the 30 day period you advised I should send another letter to amazon regarding this replacement table saw stating it is also damaged and rejecting it. 

 

Is that not the case?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes you're right.

I think those letters were predicated on the fact that you want to get rid of both of the machines back to Amazon and go from there.

Now that you seem to be communicating with Bosch, it's probably only necessary to send one letters rejection and I suggest that you modify it to refer to their new arrangement to collect the item and that you are sending the letter for the avoidance of doubt to assert your right to reject in the event that there is any further problem with the collection for which they are responsible.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unfortunately I sent the original letter yesterday before I saw your post last night.  No matter, I'll modify another letter based on the same and specify the second order number on it. 

 

One question here, do I mention compensation if they repair it?  Or leave that out at the moment and concentrate only on rejection if they don't do anything with it. 

 

The reason is that Bosch may not repair it and just say it works fine with the damage. 

 

Thanks 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I wouldn't complicate the issue. You're not in a position to ask the compensation yet – you don't even really know whether the matter is going to be solved or how long it's going to take

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sure - agree

 

I will just send a letter on the second order to cover myself and wait to see what Bosch do - will come back when I have an update. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The second letter was sent, needless to say currently no response from the first letter either.  Amazon still haven't collected the first saw it is currently sitting in the living room awaiting collection.  To mitigate circumstances I have contacted them on three occasions on chat to advise the item hasn't been collected. Taken screen shots of the chat, all they do is tell me they have requested another collection and to wait 48 hours, nothing else they can do. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sorry, but there is so much going on that I'm getting lost with these letters. I can't remember which letter you sent and to whom you sent it.
To save me going through it all again, please can you just explain who the first letter was sent to and to which you have received no response and to whom you have sent the second letter.

How long have you had this thing sitting around now?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...