mcuth v Egg ****won****

[mcuth]

DPA letter sent 25/04/06 for:

1 x loan a/c

1 x credit card a/c

 

Will split threads accordingly when DPA details received

 

They have until 5th June to reply - bring it on!

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

In response to my DPA request of 25th April (which was delivered by special delivery on the 26th), yesterday I received a letter from Egg:

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

Your Data Subject Information Request

 

Thank you for your request for details of the personal data Egg holds about you. To enable us to process your request, please complete the enclosed form and return it to us along with one of the identification documents listed below, and the appropriate fee. In the case of joint accounts all the account holders (who must each provide a separate item of identification) must sign the form.

 

Identification

Any of the documents listed below may be used for this purpose:

• A bank, building society or credit card statement
  
• A store card or catalogue statement
  
• A utility bill

The document must be an original, not a photocopy, and dated within the last 3 months. It must show your full name or first initial and surname and your current address. All documentation will be returned to you. If you are unable to provide any of the above items, please attach a letter confirming your identity. This must be an original, typed on headed paper, dated within the last three months and authenticated with an official stamp if applicable. It should be from your employer, solicitor or other professional body or person.

 

Fee

There is a charge of £10 for this service. Please send a cheque made payable to Egg.

 

What information will be included in the Data Subject Information Request?

We ask you to complete the DSIR Application Form accompanying this letter, to help us provide you with the data that will be most helpful to you. Within the categories you select on the form, you will receive a copy of all personal data we hold about you on our computer or paper files, along with explanatory notes. This data may include, as applicable, the following Egg products:

Egg Savings Account

Egg Invest

Egg Card/Egg Card Blue

Prudential Banking loans and mortgages

Egg Loan

Egg Mortgage

 

Completion of the form is not compulsory and choosing not to do so does not affect your right to a copy of your personal data. If you do not intend to complete the form but still require a copy of your personal data, you should inform of us of this and provide details of the data you require, along with the £10 fee and identification documents. We will begin processing your request on receipt of your fee, identification documents and details of the data you require.

 

What information will not be included?

The following will not be included in the information you receive from Egg:

 

Recent transactional information for Egg Card and Egg Card Blue

Customers can access the previous 12 months' statements online, so we do not provide copies of statements issued within the last year as part of your DSIR. For other products, we may limit the amount of transactional information provided. If you have a query relating to transactions or statements, please contact our call centre on 08451 233 233 where one of our associates will be pleased to help you.

 

Recent E-mail Correspondence

Emails you send to or receive from Egg remain in your Secure Messaging inbox for a period of 90 days so we do not include them as part of our response to your DSIR. E-mails more than 90 days old will be provided if you have requested them on your DSIR application form.

 

{mcuth note: the following sections all have notes on where to get the information from, but as it's not relevant to the cc/loan stuff, I've not included it here}

Prudential Assurance

Egg Term Assurance/Critical Illness Cover

Egg Home Insurance

Egg Motor Insurance

Egg Travel Insurance

Mortgages with External Providers arranged through Egg

Card Protection Policy

Credit Reference Bureaux

Staff Files

CCTV Footage

 

What happens now?

On receipt of your completed form we will send you a letter of acknowledgement, return your identification documents and begin processing your request. We will provide your data within 40 calendar days of receiving your completed form and fee.

 

The data you receive will be in paper format. If you are visually impaired and require the data to be provided in Braille, large print or audio format, please let us know.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Personally signed, and they included a pre-paid envelope for the return too

(Happy to scan the form & letter in if it's wanted?)

 

They have noted on the form that they received the fee with my original request, so I don't need to include that. It's a bit strange really - they have my current address, which was on my DPA request, so why do they need ID and should I provide it? The DPA request also referred to the information I require, so why the form?

 

My initial thoughts on a reply include: I'm not going to fill in the form, send me the info I requested; The 40 days started when you received my initial request. Thinking that the ID required is unreasonable given that I'm at the same address on file - any thoughts?

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[thecornflake]

I sent my DPA request using secure messaging on the website, which of course proves I am who I say I am. You could do this and just send them a message -

 

In reply to your letter of x/x/x I hereby confirm my identity and that I made a DPA on x/x/x. Because they promise to confirm a message recieved within 24 hours, this will not give them any extra time and save you a lot of bother.

[mcuth]

I sent my DPA request using secure messaging on the website, which of course proves I am who I say I am. You could do this and just send them a message -

 

In reply to your letter of x/x/x I hereby confirm my identity and that I made a DPA on x/x/x. Because they promise to confirm a message recieved within 24 hours, this will not give them any extra time and save you a lot of bother.

 

Oooh now, that's a good point - thanks.

I'll try that one first.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Ok, sent Secure Message tonight as follows:

 

Your reference: XXXXXXX

 

Dear Sir/Madam

 

Thank you for your letter of 26th April, in response to my Data Protection Act request dated 25th April.

 

Given that I sent my letter from the address that you have on file, signed it, provided the address that the accounts were opened at, and quoted both the loan & credit card numbers in the original letter, I see very little need to send further proof of identification. However, I trust that this Secure Message will provide proof enough of my identity to satisfy your needs.

 

My subject access request was clearly laid out in my letter dated 25th April, along with the account numbers for the loan & credit card I held (for reference: Credit card XXXXXXXXXXXXX, Loan XXXXXXXX). As such, I expect you to provide this information as requested without the need for me to fill out your DSIR form.

 

May I remind you that the 40 days to respond under the Data Protection Act (1998 ) starts from the date you receive my request and payment, which was 26th April. You therefore have until 5th June to reply with the requested information.

 

Many thanks

 

Yours sincerely

 

{mcuth}

Let's see if that's enough for them

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Egg's reply to my Secure Message:

Subject Data Subject Information Request

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

We have 40 days to respond to your DSIR request after receiving confirmation of your payment and your signed letter.

 

Until we have this information we can't process your request.

 

Once we have this information we will process this within the 40 day timescale.

 

Please ensure you send back the all the required information asked for.

 

Regards

 

{name}

Internet Customer Services

 

Uhuhuhuh, so this is what they got back:

Dear {name}

 

You already *have* received my signed letter and payment - this was a perfectly valid request under the Data Protection Act and was delivered to your offices on 26th April. Your letter of 26th April confirms that payment was received with my initial request.

 

As I requested below, kindly confirm that the Secure Message will satisfy your identification requirements - especially given the additional information that I included in my original letter (note, the address I sent the letter from is the one you have had on file since I moved here in November 2004).

 

Kind regards

 

{mcuth}

 

I foresee an interesting exchange.....

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Grrrr, these people just don't get it - reply from Egg to my last SM:

 

Dear Jennie {mcuth: Jennie? WTF is Jennie?}

 

To be able to send out Data Subject Information we need to receive a completed form. I can see that the Data Subject Information Request form was sent to you on the 26th April 2006.

 

You'll need to fill in and sign the form and return this to us so that we can action your request.Thanks for your message, if you've any further queries please feel free to contact me again and I'll be happy to help.

 

Regards

 

{name}

Internet Customer Services

 

And here's my reply to them:

 

Firstly, my name is *not* Jennie!

 

Secondly, as you yourselves state in your letter, completion of the DSIR form is *NOT* compulsory and you request that I let you know what information I require if I'm not going to fill it in. As I have stated below, my original request letter covers this information in full and as such I see no need to fill in your DSIR form.

 

Thirdly, as I'm sure you can see below, my query is relating to the identification requirement. I do not see a need to supply identification when I have supplied the information that I have previousy done. I am using Secure Message to clarify that I am who I say I am and want your confirmation that this will suffice.

 

Please pass this on to someone that actually deals with DSIR/DPA, so that I can get a definitive answer - your continued obstruction of my request may result in a complaint to the Information Commissioner.

 

Many thanks

 

Kind regards

 

{mcuth}

 

I think the phrase rhymes with Clucking Bell

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[Empire Strikes Back]

may the 4th be with you!!!great stuff

[Cmdenny]

Keep at it mate - Egg are ****, and their customer serivce is awful - I got through it by getting the BBC involved in my case and then they soon bucked their ideas up - Best of Luck.

[mcuth]

Thanks guys - am keeping on at them...

Received the below via SM yesterday...

 

Dear Michael

 

I'm sorry that we referred to you with an incorrect name, this was a genuine mistake and I apologise on behalf of my colleague for this error Michael.

 

I'm very sorry about the delay with this and I can tell you that I've forwarded this onto the Data Subject Information Request team for them to deal with and they'll get a Data Subject Information Request sent out to you.

 

Thanks for your message.

 

Regards

 

{name}

Internet Customer Services

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[angry cat]

Hi Mcuth!

I have been reading your thread and I am astonished with EGG !

 

I received exactly the same letter as you from egg, requesting my ID, however they did not ask me to fill up a form.

 

One of the things that I find curious? is the type of ID that they have requested -

 

A bank building society or credit card statement

A store card or catalogue statement

A utility bill

 

None of the above items really guarantees ones identity especially a catalogue statement! Please note, all the items just relate to ones financial ID ! I could have understood, if because of some DPA rule they had to have ID, then surely ones passport or driving license would be the premier items to confirm ones ID!!

 

(A little bit of sarcasm here, Sorry - Maybe, I should send them my Egg Credit Card statement !)

 

My letter came from Jenny Gordon - Egg Data Protection Manager, but the hand scrawled (hardly legible) envelope has been adressed to-

E Elnell

Account Servicing

Egg plc

Point North

Brierley Hill

DYS 1IU? (difficult to make out the postcode)

 

Egg know who I am I have an egg credit card and I have written to them and they have replied to my unchanged address!

 

Anyhow, I just thought that I would add to your exasperated thread and I will follow suit and secure message them.

 

Thanks

angry cat

[mcuth]

Hi Angry Cat

 

Still awaiting their reply to my last SM - I just can't believe what a PITA they're being over it. Obviously just another attempt to obstruct & confuse......still, they're picking on the wrong folks here

 

Oh & yeah, my handscrawled envelope has the same on it

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Still no reply to last SM, so I feel like there's a nice stroppy letter being drafted.....

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

My thunder got stolen! Because Egg had waited for a month to bank the cheque, I'd forgotten all about it and it bounced

 

Anyway, they sent a letter asking for a new cheque, even though the old one clearly says "PLEASE RE-PRESENT" in nice big letters So, new one sent today, along with a letter & copies of the SM exchange above, tacitly impying they're just stalling....

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[DazNorthants]

Hey good news about the cheque bouncing - Now you can probably claim from your bank too - Ohhh dear.

 

Dazz

[mcuth]

Hey good news about the cheque bouncing - Now you can probably claim from your bank too - Ohhh dear.

 

Yup, will be doing that too

 

Egg wrote and said thanks for the replacement cheque, and that the info would be sent within 40 days. It seems that the replacement cheque bounced too while I was in hospital the other day (thanks A&L, &*^%ers). So, have written back to Egg saying please represent this time, and btw, your 40 days started when you received the original request & cheque (can you imagine how many organisations would delay banking a cheque for 6 months if cleared funds was the requirement?) - but with the cheque circumstances I'm prepared to accept 30th June as a new deadline.

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Amazingly, after all that hassle, in today's post I get a block of info from Egg

On first glance though, it doesn't appear to contain any info relating to my Egg Loan - only the Credit Card. Another letter coming up *sigh*

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

On first glance though, it doesn't appear to contain any info relating to my Egg Loan - only the Credit Card. Another letter coming up *sigh*

 

Scrap that - I found the info further on in the pack.

Only £40 of charges in total though

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Prelim letter sent today by RM Special Delivery:

 

Account Servicing

Egg PLC

Point North

Brierley Hill

DY5 1LY

By Royal Mail Special Delivery

Dear Sir/Madam

Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

REQUEST FOR REFUND OF CHARGES

My request

I am writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from my account since inception. I now understand that the regime of fees which you have applied to my account in relation over limit, late payment and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent consumer regulations. If you say that they are not, then will you please demonstrate this by letting me have a full breakdown of the costs to which you have been put by as a result of my breaches, in order to reassure me that your penalties really do reflect your costs.

 

I am of the view that your charges represent a penalty and are therefore unrecoverable at Common Law. In the Scottish case of Castaneda and Others v. Clydebank Engineering and Shipbuilding Co., Ltd. (1904) 12 SLT 498; the House of Lords held that a contractual party can only recover damages for actual or liquidated losses incurred from a breach of contract. This is also the position in English law: Wilson v Love [1896]; Dunlop Pneumatic Tyre Co Ltd v New Garage and Motor Co Ltd [1915] AC 79; Ford Motor Co v Armstrong [1915]; Bridge v Campbell Discount Co. Ltd [1962]; Murray v Leisureplay [2004].

Your charges do not reflect any actual loss; instead they appear to represent a lucrative profit-making scheme. In

particular, charges were applied after I entered into transactions without sufficient funds in my account and also when I have gone overdrawn without authorisation. The actual loss is the cost of automatically sending me a computer generated letter. I would respectfully submit that is valued at no more than 50 pence.

UK banks have recently given evidence to the House of Commons Treasury Committee on how bank charges are

calculated: "The costs are going to pay for all the people we have who pursue debt, collect debt, speak to customers and chase payments. The way these charges are arrived at is by taking these total costs and making some assumptions about the volume that is going to come through to arrive at the individual charges" (2nd report, 25 January 2005, paragraph 50).

Accordingly, the charges applied to my account are not a reasonable pre-estimate of your loss in relation to my account. No-one has had to look at my account or telephone me. No one has had to collect anything. Your

charges would appear to represent a device to recover global losses (for example, loan defaulters, bad debt write off, including commercial lending in, and outwith, the UK).

On a separate note, your charges appear to represent an unfair term of contract which is contrary to the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 (SI. 1999/2083). My account falls within the scope of Regulation 5 of the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 as I am a consumer. Your charges constitute an unfair

penalty under reference to paragraph 1(e) of schedule 2 of the said regulations:

‘Indicative and non-exhaustive list of terms which may be regarded as unfair - 1. Terms which have the

object of effect of - (e) requiring any consumer who fails his obligation to pay a disproportionately high

sum in compensation’.

0n 26 July 2005, the OFT stated that 'a charge is likely to be disproportionately high if it is more than a court would

be likely to award if the lender sued the cardholder for breach of contract'. Because your charges include a large

profit margin, in addition to actual loss, they are unrecoverable as an unfair term in contract. I believe that your

charges require me to pay a disproportionately high sum in compensation for incurring transactions which were

ultimately declined by an automated computer system. In addition, it is unfair to require me to subsidise your global debt recovery costs and debt write-off.

It has now been confirmed that your particularly high level of penalties are considered to be unfair per se by the OFT who reported on the 5th April 2006 and are therefore presumed to be unlawful in the absence of specific proof to the contrary..

Your responsibilities

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary. I consider that your repeated representations that your charges are fair and reasonable are deceptive and that they have deceived me into agreeing to pay them. Your concealment of the true nature of your charges has prevented me from asserting my right until now

 

What I require

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a nett total of £40.00. As advised in my DPA request, I am also reclaiming the statutory £10.00 DPA fee. This makes a total of £50.00. I request that you refund this amount in full and enclose a schedule of the charges which I am claiming with this letter.

 

Targets to resolve this matter

I hope that you will enter into a sincere dialogue with me about this matter and write on the assumption that you will prefer to do this rather than merely respond with standard letters and leaflets.

 

You have 10 working days, from receipt of this letter (i.e. by Wednesday 5th July 2006), to reply unconditionally accepting my request in principle and letting me know a date by which I will receive payment.

 

If you do not respond, or do not respond positively, within this time period, I shall send you a further letter before action allowing a further 10 working days in which to reflect. I believe that these targets are more than sufficient for a large company such as yours with dedicated staff and departments.

After that will be no further communication from myself and I shall issue a claim at the expiry of the second deadline.

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

Yours faithfully,

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Recieved letter today "We've received your complaint". "I'm sorry that you have had to complain to us....blah blah blah.....Financial Services Authority....blah blah blah.....4 weeks...blah blah blah.....unable to resolve within 8 weeks.....blahhhhhhhhhhh"

 

Aye, like you're getting that long

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Received the following letter today (verbatim - don't worry if you find it "wordy", I certainly do, and the use of English is almost criminal on its own!):

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

Re: Request for repayment of charges - Account number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

 

Thank you for your letter dated 28th June 2006.

 

Yoru Credit Agreement ("the Agreement") with Egg Banking plc ("Egg") clearly states that Charges (as defined in condition 8 and set out in more detail in section 7 of the Agreement) will be added to your Account if you exceed your Credit Limit or fail to make or are late in paying your contractual repayments.

 

Egg does not believe that its Credit Agreement Conditions are in any way "unlawful". Egg recognises that customers sometimes exceed their Credit Limits and/or fail to make or are late in paying their required repayments and Egg therefore puts in place systems and process to deal with the same. The Charges set out in Condition 7 of the Agreement are calculated by taking into account the aggregate costs incurred by Egg in maintaining those systems and processes and the estimated number of customers who will exceed the Credit Limits on their accounts and/or fail to make and/or be late in paying their required repayments. The amount of the Charges applied under Condition 7, therefore, represents a genuine pre-estimate of the loss caused to Egg by customers being late in and/or failing to make the agreed repayments and/or exceeding their Credit Limits.

 

Furthermore, Egg takes steps to try to ensure that you do not incur the Charges set out under Condition 7. For example, the Credit Agreement Conditions require you to have a direct debit in place to make your monthly payment. This is done to ensure (as far as possible) that you do not inadvertently fail to make your repayments on the due date (and do not incur the relevant Charges under Section 7). With respect to observance of your Credit Limit, you are able to see your outstanding balance 24 hours a day on New Egg Home. This enables you to monitor your balance and manage your spending within your Credit Limit (and thereby avoid incurring any relevant Charges under Section 7).

 

If you have any concerns relating to information held about you by a Credit Reference Agency you should contact the agency directly. Egg uses the following agencies:

 

a) Equifax (Equifax File Advice Centre, PO Box 1140, Bradford, BD1 5US)

b) Experian (PO Box 8000, Nottingham, NG1 5EX)

c) Call Credit (1 Park Lane, Leeds, LS3 1EP)

 

You should by now have received the Data Subject Information request, our records show this was sent on the 9th June 2006. I am unable to refund the £10.00 fee as this is an administrative charge set by Egg, which Egg is entitled to do.

 

I am sorry to inform you that I cannot uphold your complaint to refund the charges you have incurred as I am satisfied that Egg have acted correctly and in accordance with the terms and conditions of the Egg Card.

 

If you want to discuss the matter with me, please use the contact details at the side of this letter. Alternatively my direct number is XXXXX XXX XXX ext XXXX.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Guy Harrison

Customer Relations Adviser

Egg plc

So essentially, it's the usual "blah blah blah, our terms & conditions say it's ok, so it's ok" - LOL

 

Anyway, I noticed that the deadline date was incorrect in my original prelim letter, so come next Thursday (13th), I'll be sending in the LBA :grin:

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

1st draft of the LBA:

Further to my letter of 28th June, and your reply of 4th July 2006, the contents of which I note.

I am again writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from my account since inception. I now understand that the regime of “fees” which you have been applying to my account in relation to “over limit”/late payments and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. My letter of 28th June explains this in great detail, and your reply of 4th July does not alter the fact that your charges do not represent a genuine pre-estimate of the actual cost of my breach of contract.

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a nett total of £50.00. I require repayment of this amount in full and have enclosed a schedule of the charges that I am reclaiming.

If you do not fully comply within 10 working days of receipt of this letter (i.e. by Friday 28th July 2006), I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount (plus interest, plus my costs) without further notice.

 

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

[mcuth]

LBA sent today:

 

Thursday, 13th July, 2006

 

Guy Harrison

Customer Relations Adviser

Customer Relations Office

Egg PLC

Riverside Road

PridePark

Derby

DE99 3GG

 

By Royal Mail Special Delivery

 

Dear Mr Harrison

 

Credit Card Account Number XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Your ref XXX/XXXXXX/XXXX

REQUEST FOR REFUND OF CHARGES – LETTER BEFORE ACTION

 

Further to my letter of 28th June, and your reply of 4th July 2006, the contents of which I note.

 

I am again writing to ask you to refund the charges which you have levied from my account since inception. I now understand that the regime of “fees” which you have been applying to my account in relation to “over limit”/late payments and so forth are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations. My letter of 28th June explains this in great detail, and your reply of 4th July does not alter the fact that your charges do not represent a genuine pre-estimate of the actual cost of my breach of contract. In response to your comment regarding the £10 Data Protection Act fee, in my original DPA request letter of 25th April, I advised you that “Furthermore, if I discover that you have levied disproportionate penalties against me then I shall be reclaiming them in addition to the enclosed £10 disclosure fee” – thus, this fee remains in the charges that I am reclaiming.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

I calculate that, as at today’s date, you have taken a nett total of £50.00. I require repayment of this amount in full and have enclosed a schedule of the charges that I am reclaiming. I would also contend that as these monies are unlawfully charged, payment should be made directly to me rather than being credited to the account.

 

If you do not fully comply within 10 working days of receipt of this letter (i.e. by Friday 28th July 2006), I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount (plus interest, plus my costs) without further notice.

I look forward to hearing from you by return.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

{mcuth}

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Wow - quick reply, received this morning:

 

Dear {mcuth}

 

In response to your letter received today, I would like to refer you to my previous letter as this was our final response to your request.

 

Even though we do not accept your complaint, I still need to ensure that you are aware of your rights in relation to a complaint against us.

 

You now have six months from the date of this letter to take your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service - further details are available on the Financial Ombudsman Service. A copy of their leaflet is enclosed.

 

If there is anything in this letter that you wish to discuss or needs further explanation, please don't hesitate to contact me using the contact details at the side of this letter. Alternatively my direct number is XXXXX XXX XXX ext XXXX.

 

Yours sincerely

 

Guy Harrison

Customer Relations Adviser

Egg plc

 

Excellent - well, roll on Monday 31st July when I issue claims against this lot (and the others) - can't say they weren't warned

 

Cheers

 

Michael

[mcuth]

Muwuhahahahaha, the N1 is all nicely typed up & printed out, along with all the other supporting docs for the particulars of claim. With costs & interest, Egg will now owe me £85.22 instead of the £50.00 they could just have paid up in the first place

 

Cheers

 

Michael