Letter from DWP - Fraud or genuine? - *** Resolved *** 'Or so I thought!' Here we go again....

[khemist]

Hey Ladies and Gentlemen, A very big hello to all, old and new…

 

I have not been here for many years and I am glad to see the place is still alive and kicking... Noted some moniker’s I remember who assisted me before, still around, A very warm-hearted hello to you.

 

I received a letter from the DWP yesterday and my wife received the same today, at first, I thought it must be one of those fraud letters I keep hearing about, but since one arrived today with my wife’s name, I am curious at least.

 

A little history - Since joining this great forum many moons ago, where I was assisted with a situation from the good guys and girls of this forum, I have been an exceptional A1 creditworthy person, pretty much, new me, new life, etc. all for good.

Why I have pointed this out is because, having had the life almost kicked out of me once with the issue that first brought me here, I have never missed a payment, fell short or foul of any creditor SINCE I JOINED!!! I kid you not…. Super straight up honest citizen and when there was any funny business, any spurious letters from companies, trying it on, I dealt with it with info accrued from here, this very forum!

 

So, I was a little shocked/curios/wicked even lol, to get this letter.

Now, when you see it, it is a small amount, however, due diligence and all, I must make certain this is all above board and with the knowledge learned over the years, I am asking for clarification and steering in any direction that may help also being what would appear to be a fairly small sum, I know, for some this could be the difference between gas/elec/food, etc.

 

If this thread assists others, that would be my point over not knowing what to do.

 

Q.1 Being HMRC/DWP can I start with a letter,(not trusting phone calls) recorded delivery, with; 'DEBT IN DISPUTE' On the top?

 

Q2. Does Statute Barred apply to HMRC/DWP?

 

Q3. Subject access request? Thanks, the forum's first answer was on your sticky note, top-line pertaining to .Gov SAR free.

 

Once requested will this hold the time until this has been received and reviewed, as you will note the date, they want an answer, by the 19^th of March (This wound me up, what if it were £2000 they were asking for!)

Q4. DO I TREAT THIS AS ANY OTHER DEBT, I BELIEVE I DO NOT OWE OR KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT?

 

Lastly, shall I just pay it, if it is real, is it worth the hassle? I do not 'just have' the money to throw away, especially as I have tried my hardest to ensure, I DO NOT OWE ANYTHING, TO ANYONE, APART FROM THE USUAL BILLS, OF WHICH I PRETTY MUCH PAY IN ADVANCE…

Thanks

 

2020-02-27 DWP letter re owing and DEA threat..pdf

[fkofilee]

Call them and find out what it was for... 

Its not a Debt Collection Agency - These debts are for overpayments / UC Advances etc

[Bromptonaut]

I'd say that is a genuine DWP letter. Looks like sort of thing they send out where a benefit overpayment has occurred; have you been on Universal Credit or Tax Credits? 

 

As above ring them up and ask what it's about. If you don't feel confident to do that yourself then your local Citizens Advice will probably be able to help. 

[brassnecked]

Its DWP Debt management, the phone number is correct, it must be some overpayment of a benefit they have found

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dwp-debt-management-performance-data/dwp-debt-management-customer-service-standards#contacting-debt-management

[ericsbrother]

letter no doubt genuine but that doesnt mean you actually owe them money, they are just as incompetent as HMRC and often make assumptions about payments that they may not have actually paid.

 

I once  enquired about a benefit and a year later got a bill demanding the repayment of a NI credit I actually didnt receive. They assumed that as I has asked I had received it and as I wasnt entitled to it they wanted the money back without actually bothering to check if it had been paid.

 

so you need to ask them what it is about and check what they say against other possible records like your bank account.

[brassnecked]

Abdolutely EB, DWP are notorious for snatching back stuff not owed, or creating Overpayments from their errors. Definitely should phone and ask them.  Debt management should tell which department raise the debt, then get on to them.they have been snatching back historic or disputed tax Credits of late as Universal Credit is being migrated to.

[unclebulgaria67]

Debt Management only deal with Government debt, so you need to ask them for the details.  

 

If you phone them ( record call if you can) , they will tell you which Government department processed the debt, when this done and what period the debt relates to.   Ask Debt Management to note their records, that you dispute owing any debt and want the details to approach the relevant Government department directly.

 

Once you have the information, then best to make a complaint to that relevant department and ask them to prove that you owe any debt.  Each Government departments complaints process can be found online if you search for it.

 

 

[khemist]

Hi UncleBulgaria67, thanks for your response, I shall do this, one of my initial points, for 10 years, I have had no dealings or debts with anyone!

Does Statute Barred apply? Or not so being the government?

[unclebulgaria67]

Statute barred does not apply to Gov debts.

[Andyorch]

Some debts can never be statute barred........these include Income Tax and VAT debt owed to HMRC. ... Council Tax debt and Benefits overpayments can generally become statute barred. However if you have been overpaid benefits the payment authority will normally recover these from any future payments you are entitled to.

 

Andy

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks for the reminder Andy.  Had it in my mind that Government overpayment debts can be subject to recovery many years, even decades after the normal statute barred time limit.   From what I have since read, DWP benefit debts have a 6 year limitation period, but they can recover via future benefit payments beyond this.

[khemist]

Thanks to all, I shall call them today with the call being recorded,

I may start a paper trail, just to ensure I do actually owe this money,

 

I have filled a SAR from the government site....

FYI, only benefits I have had if any would have been the standard for my child who is 22 now!

 

Other than that no benefits received or asked for, for at least 10 years.

[khemist]

Hi peoples,

 

I have called and recorded calls, debt management say, 'YOU MUST PAY' and pretty much did not care other than that, put me through to a dept. who checked and said they do not know either as there is no overpayment on their system,

 

put through to another dept. who said its in relation to an overpayment in tax credit from 2008, but could not tell me anymore.

This time period relates to a time in my life when I found myself distressed and very depressed and I have no memories of any payments of any kind claimed for, that being said, I have filled a SAR, clearly stated to all dept.

I am not ignoring, just need actual proof it was over paid.

 

Debt management have said,  I must pay anyways, regardless of any dispute I may have, this I find quite wrong but so be it, I will call them now and update them with (awaiting SAR etc) and see what they say. Thanks again all.

[Andyorch]

Well thats the obvious response you will get when you ring and speak to a DCA...thats why we normally advise against it.

 

Quote

 'YOU MUST PAY' .......... I must pay anyways, regardless of any dispute I may have, 

 

No explanation =  No Pay.

 

Andy 

[khemist]

Thanks Andy, I was reluctant to call, but deal only by letter, I too have found over the years its a better way, however as per above, I tried...

I will call them back with the filled SAR number and then start the letters.

 

Your sentiments are mine exactly, to many people pay out of fear without even knowing if correct or not, the lady was quite blunt in saying, you have been sent a letter pay it!

I laughed and said, its like JIM turning up at my door and says, 'you owe me money, here is the amount, pay it,' without no explanation whatsoever.

 

Khemist

[Andyorch]

Absolutely.......quantify with reason and by dates...and you will be happy to pay. 

[brassnecked]

DWP Debt Management are a Department of UK Gov not a DCA they collect overpayments and claw back the Tax Credits for HMRC. if there are benefits in pay, they have even been known to claw them from DLA and PIP, although  the legality of that has been challenged

[dx100uk]

and try DEA's on you to if you are in employment.

 

def challenged this.

we've had more that a few that were mere notes in a file from someone who made it several years ago that no longer work for the dwp and no data to back it up.

 

there were more than one here about a note from an external 'audit' agency too, that turned out to be advantis DCA and was totally fictitious again no real data anywhere in the sar.

dx

 

 

[brassnecked]

With the migration to UC from tax Credits I have seen several cases where a disputed amount was passed by HMRC to Debt management and UC to deduct, no proof was forthcoming from HMRC, but they still took the money pushing the family into hardship

, as they had an Advance payment being deducted.

@ UB "From what I have since read, DWP benefit debts have a 6 year limitation period, but they can recover via future benefit payments beyond this. "

 

I believe that is exactly what they do.

[khemist]

These lot are a joke!

I have sent SAR request of which I have been sent a form to sign, also from 1 dept stating they know nothing about it, (1 nil to me) I sent all info to the said address, recorded delivery, advising them of this and the fact, I WILL PAY ONCE/IF JUSTIFIED, they then send a letter stating they are taking it from employers!!!! Ignoring all so far.

Absolutely fuming. however, I shall continue.

 

 

[Andyorch]

 

[khemist]

Hey all, I hope all is well with everyone, as much as can be, in this crazy times right now.

I have not commented on my topic much since  Covid-19, I felt it trivial in the scope of things.

 

Here is an update for anyone following this.

 

I requested a SAR, which was only delivered on Friday, I have had a direct earnings attachment sent to my employer, also one was sent to my wife's employer for the exact same amount... which ultimately means the sum on the original letter is now being claimed twice!

 

I have read the guide Andyorch directed me to and passed it on to my employer, who still seems to think the full amount must be deducted at once!

 

I have had no response to my letters to the specific dept, stating I am on the case, so far there is no proof I even owe this money, yet they still ignore and pursue anyways...

 

Now I am sending another letter to the named person on the letter, showing my evidence of not owing as per their own paperwork,

 

alas,

I don't think I can stop the money being given by both employers at the end of the month and there is still not one person to challenge and make them see sense, so I conclude, at this moment, if this happens to anyone it would appear once their minds are made up whether correct or not it is actioned.

 

not actually sure where to go with this, so now, I go from what seemed to be a fairly small sum which can be managed, to twice that amount in a time where everyone has too be mindful.

[khemist]

Hi all, please see attached, may benefit some, as per last week all debt management collection are on hold for 3 months.

Gives me 3 months to argue my corner!

DEA debt deductions suspended - GOV.PDF

[Andyorch]

 

[khemist]

Good morning all, hope all are safe and well?

 

A final resolution to my situation, a small win in the scheme of things, but none the less a win!

 

I received a cancellation notice of the DEA from my employee this morning, it would appear the letter I sent directly to the named manager on the original letter, took heed, I have also been through the results of the SAR and there is no mention of it anywhere, anyway, all this without a challenge (still caused stress), only the original letter from me to the named manager on the original letter, a request for a SAR (info gained from here)

 

So I guess the moral of this short and probably boring to most, story is, DO, CHALLENGE ALL REQUESTS SUCH AS THIS, BE IT GOV. OR OTHERWISE, AT LEAST FURNISH YOURSELF WITH INFO, SARS ETC, IN ORDER TO BE EQUIPPED TO FIGHT YOUR CORNER.

 

Also to all that may read without comment;

 

YOU ARE NOT ALONE, THERE ARE SOME VERY SPECIAL KIND PEOPLE OUT HERE, THINKING AND FEELING FOR OTHERS - DO NOT BE AFRAID TO ASK, ASSISTANCE SOMETIMES COMES FROM THE STRANGEST OF PLACES, FROM STRANGERS WITH TRUTH AND KINDNESS TO ASSIST.

 

Something I learned right here many years ago on the consumer action group, and again with the assistance of acquired knowledge throughout this site, it pays to be diligent!

 

Regards