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Capital One - Default & Charges


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Hi All 

I have two Capital One Default entries on my report (which has now been a factor in being turned down for a job) - both accounts were low credit limit @ £200 each.


From October 2019 I entered into a bit of an issue with finances & family matters and neglected payment on the accounts until a payment plan was set up in Jan 2020 . (no excuse I know)

The main condition of the Payment Plans was that they would have to put my accounts as Default on acceptance of the payment plan as this was the only way one could be setup(?). (Default applied 22 Feb 2020)


This is despite their own website stating "Money worries can be confusing, but don't worry, you have options. There are 3 steps you should take to avoid late fees and reduce any damage to your credit rating." & "Have your credit file show that you're doing your best to get back on track" ref: https://www.capitalone.co.uk/support/struggling-with-money.jsf

Fast forward, I won a PPI battle with another company and money from that paid off both CapOne cards in Nov 2020.


Prior to Oct 19 - I've managed the accounts accordingly.
Card A - Started 2015 - credit report shows 2 missed payments (Jun 15 / Sep 18*), then Oct 19 to Jan 20 missed payment prior to Default.
Card B - Started 2018 - No Missed payments until Oct 19 to Jan 20

*Sep 18: two separate payments were mistakenly made on Card B.


There were other missed payments which were never negatively recorded due to 1-2 days due to payment processing.

However I did still incur Late Payment Fees & Over limit fees on BOTH accounts in the same Months - basically equating to £48 of charges in a month. (2 x Late Payment / 2 x Over limit @ £12) but this was never negatively recorded on profile as I did make the payments.


My questions are as follows:
Charges: 
When a complaint is summitted how should Capital One treat a complaint? Is it a 1-2-1 relationship (CapOne & Customer) or is the complaint based upon the individual accounts.

I am awaiting my SAR which will give me details of all charges since 2015 (start dates)
 

Default:
When entering a Payment Plan, should a Default be immediately applied to an account with no "Notice of Default" being issued ie the cooling off period?
Is it appropriate for a company to register a default and not a payment plan marker on a credit report?

I remember reading somewhere within the CONC guidelines about treating a customer fairly, and not misleading them - wouldn't the immediate default 'vs' their blurb on the website about reducing damage to credit rating be classed as misleading and treating a customer unfairly?

(PS the company has said they will review my job application if I could get amended to a non-default marker)
 

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i don't think i'd bother going into the ins/outs of their debt advice or guideline and what part they play into what has happened...

but.. appeal to cap1's better nature by explaining

 

 

....you had 2 cards with them at the time of the reduced payment plan entered into date xxxx.

on date xxx you registered a default on one card, but on the other merely marked it as in an arrangement.

it has now come to pass i have landed my dream job, but the default you have registered is stopping me from attaining the post .

 

my potential employers have indicated that if i could get the default removed and have it replaced with the same arrangement marker as the other card which entered the same scheme with you at the same time, they will employ me.

 

would it be at all possible for you to do this as a gesture of goodwill allowing me to attain my dream job?

this seems such a trivial matter to upset my whole future

 

i thank you for you time 

  • Like 1

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Response from Head of Complaints:

 

Quote

Thank you for getting in touch with us on 2 April. We’re sorry you haven't had a good experience. Since you told us you weren't happy, we’ve been looking into what happened. Thank you for being so patient while we’ve been getting to the bottom of it.

 

We understand you’re unhappy about the default applied to your account in February 2020.

 

Now we’ve taken a look at all the information, we're writing to tell you that we’ve decided not to uphold your complaint. Not upholding your complaint means we think everything happened as it should, and we feel we’ve treated you fairly. We’d like to explain how we’ve made this decision.

 

Default

 

We’re sorry to hear about the impacts of the default on your credit file and because we understand this is a worry for you, we asked our specialist team to review whether there was anything we could do.

 

When we’ve looked at this further, we’ve confirmed that we’re unable to remove the default applied, as we’ve followed our process correctly. To explain, when you contacted us in January 2020 and provided us with details of your affordability, we agreed to set up long term payment plans for both accounts.

 

We explained that as a consequence of the long term arrangements agreed, your accounts would default, and you would be sent letters confirming this. These were sent to you on 21 January 2020.

The letters explained that if on reflection, you decided that the long term plans were not the right solution for you, you had until 18 February 2020 to cancel them and we would then cancel the default. We confirmed that your credit agreement would be terminated on 18 February 2020.

 

We understand why you’re asking us to remove the default from your credit file and acknowledge the upset and concern this has caused you, particularly when you’ve now settled both accounts in full.

 

We’re sorry to say that because we feel the default were applied correctly, we’re not allowed to remove them. This is because we’re obliged to accurately report defaults to credit reference agencies, so they have a clear picture of how you handle your debt.

 

We realise this is not the answer you were looking for, but we hope we’ve helped clarify our decision.

 

Interest and charges

 

Your complaint about the interest and charges applied to your accounts, has already been investigated, and we sent our final response on 15 January 2020.

 

As it has been more than six months since we issued your final response on this matter, the complaint is now time barred. The Financial Ombudsman Service would no longer have our permission to consider your complaint regarding this matter.

 

What happens next?

 

Both accounts are settled with a zero balance. No further payments are required.

 

We have raised your request for a subject access request, please be advised that we have 30 days within which to send this to you.

 

Correcting your credit file

 

We understand that the effects of a default on your credit file is worrying, as this is something which will remain on your record for 6 years, from the date it was applied. If you want to give some context to the credit reference agencies, you can add a Notice of Correction to your record.

 

A Notice of Correction is a short note that provides more background to your circumstances, such as being redundant or on long-term sick leave. It helps credit providers understand your situation better before they lend to you.

 

To add a Notice of Correction you’ll need to contact each of the three credit agencies and follow their simple process:

 

Experian www.experian.co.uk

Equifax www.equifax.co.uk

TransUnion www.TransUnion.co.uk

 

Does this answer your complaint?

We hope this resolves everything and that you’ve found this helpful, however if you have further questions please call us on 0333 000 0209.

 

If you’re dissatisfied with the way your complaint was resolved, you have the right to refer your complaint to the FOS, free of charge – but you must do so within six months of the date of this communication. If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances. For example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances. More details about the FOS can be found on its website www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk.

 

You can also access an electronic version of the FOS’ leaflet which provides more information for consumers through the following link: https://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/publications/consumer-leaflet.htm. If you require a paper copy of this leaflet, please let us know.

 

Thanks for being a Capital One customer.

 

Head of Complaints



Looking though some older emails:
One of the cards I had requested a payment plan in October 2019, then 13th Nov 2019 I requested the same plan for the 2nd card but they said they needed an income & expenditure
(despite me being the same person and the details were exactly the same as the other card) -- at this point neither cards were in Default.

I continued to complain about the refusal of the plan due to the fact that they already had the information on 3rd Jan 2020 it was escalated to the complaints team and they replied on 15 Jan 2020 but still insisted on an I&E for the second card.
At this time, due circumstances beyond my control, I requested that the payment plan be lowered to £5 pcm and this to be active on the 2nd card as well and provided a revised I&E.
This resulted in the Plan will only be put into place if the account is default (letter issued 21 Jan 2020) - Default applied 22nd Feb.

I am going to wait for the SAR, and read through everything as it will show the difficulty I faced with the company trying to put a payment plan into place.
Then try contacting the Company Secretary (Rupert MacInnes) and then if that fails CEO (Lucy-Marie Hagues)

I think I am now completely out of luck in regards to Charges and Fee's, unless "Lockdown March 2020" can assist with being unable to complain to FOS within 6mths as an exception?
 

Edited by ads_uk
removed personal info.
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still a bit puzzled really why they accepted the situation on one card and didn't default you, but did on the other, they haven't really explained what caused that .....

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Do you think inconsistency in reporting go in my favour?

Equifax - No default registered, shows missed payments Aug - Oct 20 & two different settlement dates Nov & Dec 20.

Aug 20 & prior paid on time marker for both

 

Experian - Default registered Feb 2020

 

TransUnion - Default registered Feb 2020

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  • 2 months later...

Received a new reply from Head of Complaints.

Despite sending through copies of my reports to show the differences, they still state that they are reporting correctly?

They've also said that as the last email was their final response (despite me replying with additional evidence) and I do not have their permission to take it to the FoS.

 

Do you have an updated file that was originally here for the Director/Executive team contact, as CS/Complaints?

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ceoemail.com?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Sorry to bring this post back up.
Had a response to my request to remove defaults - denied, they said that they register everything correctly and it's Equifax that should report the dates.

It kind of got me down, so I had a clean up of paperwork - and come across the SAR I requested from them in April.
I did read through it at the time, but Apr was a bit of a crap month for me - pain meds, kept me sleeping most of the time, so couldn't really focus.
Anyway just thought I'd have a quick look through it again and I've spotted an error.

The attached is the Transaction extract that they sent through, broken down into sections by statement date.
Is it just me or is the New Balance (End balance) for each month incorrect?


(pg 7)     Statement date 02/10/2015 - New Balance = 231.94 (CR 25.10 / DR 51.94)

(pg 7)     Statement date 02/11/2015 - New Balance = 197.72 (CR 231.94 / DR 197.92)
(pg 7/8) Statement date 02/12/2015 - New Balance = 183.22 (CR 90.00 / DR 75.30) <- Over limit charge applied 18/12 for going over on 17/12 but payment of £65 made 10days later in same month)
(pg .8)    Statement date 03/01/2016 - New Balance = 195.78 (CR 25.91 / DR 38.47)
(pg 8/9) Statement date 02/02/2016 - New Balance = 202.70 (CR 25.78 / DR 38.48) 
(pg 9)    Statement date 02/03/2016 - New Balance = 249.02 (CR 26.76 / DR 45.08 this total = £18.32)   <--- Balance should be £202.70 + £18.32 = £221.02 ----- Difference 28.00
(pg 9/10) Statement date 02/04/2016 - New Balance = 233.66 (credits 100.0, Debits 84.64 total = £15.36)    <--- should be £221.02 + £15.36 = 236.38



 

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Tried to edit but wouldnt let me:

(pg 7)     Statement date 02/10/2015 - New Balance = 231.94 (CR 25.10 / DR 51.94)

(pg 7)     Statement date 02/11/2015 - New Balance = 197.72 (CR 231.94 / DR 197.92)
(pg 7/8) Statement date 02/12/2015 - New Balance = 183.22 (CR 90.00 / DR 75.30) <- Over limit charge applied 18/12 for going over on 17/12 but payment of £65 made 10days later in same month)
(pg .8)    Statement date 03/01/2016 - New Balance = 195.78 (CR 25.91 / DR 38.47)
(pg 8/9) Statement date 02/02/2016 - New Balance = 202.70 (CR 25.78 / DR 38.48) 
(pg 9)    Statement date 02/03/2016 - New Balance = 249.02 (CR 26.76 / DR 45.08 this total = 18.32)   <--- Balance should be 202.70 + 18.32 = 221.02 ----- Diff 28.00
(pg 9/10) Statement date 02/04/2016 - New Balance = 233.66 (CR 100.00, DRs 84.64 total = -15.36)    <--- should be 221.02 -15.36 = 205.66
(pg 10) Statement date 02/05/2016 - New Balance = 232.73 (CR 50.00, DR 49.07 total = -0.93)    <--- should be 205.66 - 0.93 = 204.73

This £28.00 difference goes on (I'm into 2018 atm) and there have been Overlimit charges applied where I've been inside the limit if this mysterious £28.00 is removed.

Am I missing something with it?

pg7-10.pdf

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  • 7 months later...

open

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

7mths later.. yep FoS are very behind with their work load.

 

Update

FoS asked what would I be looking.for by way of resolution. Told them I am not interested in Monetary gain but to have the two defaults removed.

 

FoS decision:

Card 1: Can not see any issues, statements would have showed correct balances. Its upto ICO if there is any issues with regarding incorrect information with SAR - not for FoS to act upon.

Card 2: They have said looking at the time the card was issued, it shouldn't have been due to a payment plan already being in place on card 1.

 

Resolution 1: I asked that instead of financial refund, I am open to the clearing of both defaults as full and final settlement.

FoS put this to CapOne who have refused.

 

Resolution 2: FoS has decided that due to the irresponsible lending on card 2, FoS must do the following:

Refund Interest, Fees + 8% Statutory AND provide compensation of £75 + remove the adverse information associated to card 2 (Inc removing default)

 

This is now with CapOne for their acceptance or objection - they have til 28/04/22.

 

Question I have.

Would I be able to contest or state that if the interest & Fees are to be refunded ie put into the position if I didn't have the card. Could I positively argue that these funds would have been offset against Card 2.

 

I ask this as Overlimit charges exist.on Card 1 but if you deduct the Card 2 interest repayment for these months I would be under credit limit. (On multiple occasions)

 

 

 

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an option yes.

lets see where cap1 go.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

I forgot to attach the fos letter they sent to CapOne on the above post.
It can be found within this post (sorry)

FOS has come back to me today (28th) stating that Capital One has now come back to accept his view.
He then asked as to where I would like the Compensation paid to.
As he has'nt supplied a breakdown of the refund (only stated compensation in his reply and not the redress as well) I've asked him for that and also confirmation from Capital One of the time frame to adjust adverse information on the credit reports.

 

I'm expecting the redress should be around £160+8% and also the £75 compensation, so approx. £280

I remember when I spoke to FOS Adjudicator I did mention about offsetting the refund against Card 1, but he said that would not be possible because there is no guarantee that I would have used that funds for payment of the card or something else..


Looking at the statements for card 1, if I put only the first months interest refund of £5.72 (05/06/2018) it would negate the Overlimit Fee I was charged, making it £17.92 in credit on account closure.
(applying all interest makes it £188 in credit on account closure & at date of Default the balance would have been £94 of a £200 credit limit)

The other point with Capital One accepting the Adjudicators view, they accept that a payment plan for Card 1 was issued on the account, this payment plan resulted in a Default Letter being received October 2017 - but no default applied to the account.

Do I have actual further argument to remove the default on Card 1 OR even have the Default applied correctly based upon the first Default letter?
This would mean the Default would drop off Oct 2023 instead of Feb 2026
If I do have further argument to what do I do, as adjudicator has now made his decision?

 

FOS letter to CapOne - 14.04.2022.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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Spoke to FOS as I had email bounce back from them.

The adjudicator said that they do not get involved in the amount which is owed or the time frame to remove the negative info.

 

I asked him regarding card 1 and the default notice received in Oct 2017. He said there was no default just a payment plan for 6mths, but I told him the letter was in the files i provided that they issued a Default notice and date this in their letter relating to the plan.

He is going back to capital one for more info as I've sent that default notice to him again.

 

He gave me the impression that he thought the default would only be applied to the account for 6mths and terminate.the card.

 

If default should have been applied Oct 2017 then all charges (over limit and late payment) should never been applied.

But I also think that if they didn't mean to send it then it was a scare tactic?

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  • 2 weeks later...

Just received response from the FOS regarding Card 1:
 

"Further to our last communication I went back to Capital One to ask about re-dating the default as per the Payment Plan you entered into in 2017.

 

But it has come back with evidence of a phone call from you on 24 October 2017 cancelling the plan saying you were doing so as you wanted to avoid a default.

 

So the card remained in use and why the default date finally applied in 2020 continues to look right.

 

If you have any more questions then please let me know.

 

Otherwise I would be grateful if you could confirm your agreement to my early view."

I don't remember that - but from paperwork provided by CapOne it does show me making the 1st Payment plan of £5.00 then clearing the balance later in the month.

I do not know what else I can do regarding getting Card 1's Default removed.


CapOne still have not issued what they believe the refund + compensation would be for Card 2 or date as to when they will remove the default.


I'm reluctant to confirm the agreement without having written proof from CapOne of the amounts/dates being refunded.

Is there anything else I can do regarding Card 1?


Am I right to state to the FOS that I'm reluctant to confirm anything until CAP one confirms amounts/dates being refunded.
 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So here is the information sent to me by FOS in reference to requesting a breakdown and removing BOTH defaults:

 

Please see below for a breakdown of the refund for Mr X second account;

 

Fees £63

Interest £116.58

8% interest 21p minus 4p applicable tax

£75 compensation

Total £254.75

 

I've arranged for this to be sent to the bank details provided and the customer should receive the funds by the close of business on the 30th May. 

I've also requested for this account to be deleted from the customer's credit file however, this can take 6-8 weeks to update. 

 

Mr X has also asked if we could consider removing the default from his other account. However, as we've previously explained that this has been added correctly and we're unable to remove it as a gesture of goodwill.

I have gone straight back to FOS stating that the interest is completely incorrect - how have they managed to get 21p as 8% interest on the refund before compensation?
Am I right in saying 8% is applied to each transaction to be refunded in the following way: Charge x Days Elapsed x 8 / 36500  then total the amounts & deduct tax. 

Also the default on the first card is now going to stay on until 2026 - this will be my only negative marker.
I did try to get them to change the date of registration as I did originally receive a Default Notice 21st October 2017 as they set up a 6mth Payment plan. (was two months in arrears)
However I stated on the 24th October that I did not want a default recorded and asked family to pay the balance off so the default was never actually registered.

The actual refund is not my issue it's really the default - this is preventing me going Full-Time (currently a temp) as I'm working with Financial information and the company can not employe me outright due to negative markers. My boss is understanding but I can only remain as a temp (between 10 & 15k wage difference from temp role to perm😔)

 

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Have you told the fos about this issue with a default harming your future and that is why it was paid off before the expiry of the DN's 14 day warning date, if it was?

 

As for calculating the correct 8%, use our stating sheet.

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Yep - but the FOS said it was upto the business to remove as a gesture of goodwill, as he sees that there was nothing wrong with the way the first account has been run.

 

I even questioned how over limit fees were applied to the account within 24hrs/next working day.

Between Feb 15 to Aug 15, I had consecutive Overlimit fees applied.

 

From Dec 2014 to Jan 2020 

A total of 37 Over Limit / late payment were applied to the account @ £12.00

with only 6 being refunded

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Posted (edited)

Attached is the final decision by the FOS with personal info redacted.

Once this was issued I replied to the FOS:
28.04.22 - CapOne accepted FOS decision and I requested that CapOne provide a full breakdown of the refund and confirm what action to be taken with the negative info on credit reports.

Also provided the Default Notice relating to Card 1 that was issued Oct 2017, as when discussing with FOS he claimed that this was overlooked.

 

10.05.22 - CapOne informed FOS there decision about Card 1 default and FOS States "as per the Payment Plan you entered into in 2017. But it has come back with evidence of a phone call from you on 24 October 2017 cancelling the plan saying you were doing so as you wanted to avoid a default. So the card remained in use and why the default date finally applied in 2020 continues to look right."

 

13.05.22 - I replied that I accepted the decision and wrote out my expected Refund based on CAG 8% file. I also stated "

as Card 1 was settled in full I am still fully prepared to forego the £306.06* for the removal of Card 1’s default.
Although the refund does come in handy the removal of the default would mean a great deal and have a huge impact on my circumstances. From penny pinching due to temporary contract to having a high paid full-time employment that will make me financially stable, which in the current circumstances with utilities etc would be a great deal.

I would wish to implore on their good nature to re-consider this, and I would be willing to pay the relative administration costs that would be incurred."
 

16.05.22 - FOS: Thank you for letting me know you agree with how I think your complaint should be sorted out. I have also shared your email with Capital One but it is up to them if they want to make a commercial call on card one.


27.05.22 - CapOne to FOS: "Please see below for a breakdown of the refund for Mr XXXXX's second account;

Fees £63 + Interest £116.58 + 8% interest 21p minus 4p applicable tax + £75 compensation = Total £254.75

I've arranged for this to be sent to the bank details provided and the customer should receive the funds by the close of business on the 30th May. 

I've also requested for this account to be deleted from the customer's credit file however, this can take 6-8 weeks to update. 

Mr XXXXX has also asked if we could consider removing the default from his other account. However, as we've previously explained that this has been added correctly and we're unable to remove it as a gesture of goodwill.”


Then my email has gone off explaining to them how the calculations are incorrect. FOS stated that they do not get involved in the Redress amounts.

edited ComplainantView_(1).pdf

Edited by FTMDave
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21 hours ago, FTMDave said:

You left your name showing twice, but I've edited your post.

Thanks - I don't think the site.i used stores it correctly

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I would never be using cloud or hosting sites ever for my pers financial details like this type of data. They are potentially vulnerable.

 

You would never know about the hack until your accounts were all drained.

 

Dx

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Agreed but I'm off work else I would have used the Adobe PDF tools (like I've done previously on CAG)

Yesterday CapOne have paid in the amount of £254.75
This consists of the £75 Compensation, Fees refund £63, Interest refund £116.58 and 17p for the 8% interest (less 4p tax)

I have contacted CapOne directly about the error in working out the 8% this but they have said they will respond via the FOS.

Although the money is better off in my pocket than theirs my concerns are still about the other default.


I told the Account Manager I spoke to that it's having an impact on my employment, financial stability and mental health knowing that I will be penny pinching for the next 4yrs being on a temps wage instead of the full time wage of £30k+ a year.  I even said to her that I've worked in finance all my life and I just proven my knowledge by explaining her the error where the team responsible has got it wrong.
That was brushed away with a "will pass the details to the team concerned" 

Am I now out of options regarding removing the Default, starting to wish I never paid it off.



 

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All credit reports have been refreshed this morning.

Each one only shows one entry for CapitalOne in the closed accounts section.

 

Now surely where capital one have been saying "they can not remove the default as they are legally obligated to report correctly" is a load of dogs danglies.

As surely they should have removed the negative information from the credit record and still reported the account, as removing account history causes another negative impact to my credit reporting and borrowing power.

 

Based on this, does it bode well at challenging the removal of the other account - who is the body that oversees the correct reporting of information?

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8 hours ago, ads_uk said:

 

 

Based on this, does it bode well at challenging the removal of the other account - who is the body that oversees the correct reporting of information?

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