UKPC ltd/DCB(L) 2015 ANPR PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - Valley Retail Park, Hesterman Way, Croydon ***Claim Discontinued***

[EveOwes]

Ive just realised that I haven't emailed the court to agree to mediation.  That was one of the options on their letter and n180.  i think i have time to do it still.  would mediation be a good idea?  I feel it would be because well i don't know - i'm not sure what to do now

[Andyorch]

You cant mediate over a speculative charge...you do not owe anything.

Our DQ link advises not to opt for mediation on this type of court cliam

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

So the court eventually sent you an n180?

Does mcol status state that?

[EveOwes]

No it was dcbl who sent a copy of theirs. See below

 

In due course, the Court will direct both parties to each file a directions questionnaire. In preparation for that, please find attached a copy of the Claimant's, which we confirm has been filed with the Court.

 

ive not heard from the court yet. I wanted to ask what is a speculative charge?

 

They sent a photo with a ticket on the car.  

It’s just that the keeper hasn’t been aware of it until this last 7 months. 

 Thanks 

 

[EveOwes]

When I spoke with the court just over a week ago the said I had to do everything via email now as the mcol chain had been broken 

[dx100uk]

claim is well stayed then.

 

so why did you say?

 

3 hours ago, EveOwes said:

Ive just realised that I haven't emailed the court to agree to mediation.  That was one of the options on their letter and n180.  i think i have time to do it still.  would mediation be a good idea?  I feel it would be because well i don't know - i'm not sure what to do now

 

[EveOwes]

I said that because I thought I had to do something.  I'm confused and panicking a little bit because of all sorts of crap going on at the moment.  My brain is frazzled that's all.

 

So I won't do anything at all until the court emails me.  dcbl said they confirmed they've filed the n180 so doesn't that mean they're going after a hearing?  Either way, I will wait now till the court emails.

thanks

[FTMDave]

DCBL are liars who will try to con you into paying up.

 

Wait until you hear from the court.

[EveOwes]

I've heard from the court now.  my daughter has to do a n180 by 28/2.

 

I also got a reply from ukpc to the sar - need proof of address.  i know you said this would happen but she didn't have any proof eg utility bill.  but she now has a court summons from the council for council tax and that has her name and address on it so I'm sending a copy to them.

 

The court said it's going to the single track court.  If we don't agree this is suitable she needs to do a n180.  It also offers the option for mediation.  I;m wondering if this might be the best option?  The keeper is accused of parking in a disabled bay which is frowned upon even though it wasn't her driving.  How can she prove she wasn't driving?  I don't know what to say to all this.  Help please!

 

also, the n180 asks for dates to avoid. 

is it feasible to say defendant not available for the whole of March and first half of April so taking it beyond the six years? 

 

I think it's not but the other lot are just as sneaky, I mean ukpc not doing the sar knowing full well our address because dcbl have been using it.  it;s mickey taking  really.

[Andyorch]

 

[EveOwes]

Thanks, I've read what you posted.

 

I have a question - why no mediation if it's a parking claim?

 

[dx100uk]

nothing to mediated over.

you do not wish to compromise, 

its a fake parking charge.

 

if you wish help with the council tax liability order 

start another thread

[EveOwes]

so if no mediation, then it's win or lose!  that sounds scary tbh - it's a £325 bill at the moment (less potentially the £80 odd interest).

 

I really want this to go away but i'm getting worried now.  They have a photo of the car in the bay with a picture of the ticket on it.  I know my daughter has not done this but we still have no idea how it happened, who was using the car etc.  It was almost six years ago.

 

Also, my daughter has lots of exams in March and she doesn't always know the dates of these beforehand so do you think it would be ok to tell the court she's not available during March? 

 

What do you think would happen if she offered them the original £60 or whatever it was??

 

And lastly, what about the SAR, when they get the new request with proof of residence, do they then have another 30 days to respond?  what if they don't respond before the court date?

 

thanks.  Sorry to be a pain.

[FTMDave]

17 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

I really want this to go away but i'm getting worried now. 

It won't go away.  When you made the decision - correctly - to not pay the fleecers their £60 it became a battle.  You'll make it go away by beating the fleecers in court.  90%+ of Caggers win their cases in court.  The latest one is simsplayer96 whose report of court is in the last pages of his/her thread.

 

20 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

Also, my daughter has lots of exams in March and she doesn't always know the dates of these beforehand so do you think it would be ok to tell the court she's not available during March?

Isn't there something on the N180 about indicating the dates you can't attend?  In any case it's highly unlikely the hearing will be as soon as March.

 

21 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

And lastly, what about the SAR, when they get the new request with proof of residence, do they then have another 30 days to respond?  what if they don't respond before the court date?

Again, it's unlikely the court hearing will be so soon.  But to answer your question, your daughter would be at a huge disadvantage due to faffing around for nearly a  year now about sending a simple SAR.

 

22 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

I know my daughter has not done this but we still have no idea how it happened, who was using the car etc.  It was almost six years ago.

Surely you must have some idea.  Yes, it was six years ago, but the fleecers' letters will have arrived at that time demanding money.  What went on, to the best of your knowledge, regarding the disabled bay?

 

23 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

What do you think would happen if she offered them the original £60 or whatever it was??

That boat sailed years ago when you decided - rightly - to refuse to pay them their £60.  They have now had to pay, I think, £62 in court fees so certainly wouldn't accept £60.

 

How about concentrating on building up a case to thrash them like all the other Caggers do rather than worrying about all these ideas of compromise?

[FTMDave]

10 hours ago, EveOwes said:

How can she prove she wasn't driving?

She doesn't have to.  The fleecers have to show they have respected the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 to establish keeper liability.  We don't know if they have, or if they haven't, as we haven't got the original PCN and since March last year ... SAR ... etc. ... you know the rest.

 

Where is your daughter in all this Eve?  I appreciate you've got huge amounts on your plate and have little time.  It's your daughter who will have to prepare a Witness Statement and argue her case in court.  Presumably she's a young person with some free time.  Why is she not dealing with her own case?  There's no point you learning the legal stuff when she will be on her own in court. 

[EveOwes]

My daughter’s an adult with two small kids. She will go to court and give it to them with both barrels. I’m the quiet worrier but then I have to sort out all these types of problems. But she doesn’t handle stress very well hence she won’t look at this, she will go to court and front it out with them. I just want to be able to tell her what she can and can’t do. 
 

at the time of the ticket she was living at home and her partner had moved in and her brother was staying over for a while and I know that both of them had used her car several times. Mainly her partner. But they no longer get on at all and only talk when it’s about their kids. She has asked them both and both have said they know nothing. Although it was probably one of them unless someone else also used the car. 
 

neither of us recall seeing the pcn or a NTK or any letters until last summer when we got a couple of letters followed quickly by dcbl letters.  Maybe we’re being a bit thick but we’re nine the wiser. My daughter always gets parking tickets but she gives them to me to appeal or pay. We never ignore them.  We’ve had loads but not from six years ago. 

 

She bought the car in 2012 and we moved house that year. But if this happened in 2016 then we were in our current address. The car was 100% registered here because she had two insurance claims to deal with.  This is why I find it odd that it is dated April 2016. It just doesn’t feel right but dcbl sent the photos to her. 

[EveOwes]

Hi. I’m still very unsure about the mediation and why we can’t use it for a parking fee. And I still haven’t submitted my defence yet. I’ve sent off the defence CAG suggested but didn’t say anything about not being aware of the pcn. 
 

I came across this comment (on google from 2017) and wanted your opinion if possible please: 

 

if you have already submitted that defence as "not being the driver" , you will LOSE on the fact that the law changed 5 years ago and under certain circumstances made the keeper liable for a drivers actions

they will just cite POFA2012 and ask the judge to make you liable for the outstanding pcn

as you have already put in a poor defence , you cannot alter it now

the later stages are the witness statement and evidence , nothing to do with any defence 

 

 

[dx100uk]

stop reading useless old google rubbish

 

stick to cag.

 

41 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

And I still haven’t submitted my defence yet

yes you did weeks ago.

 

41 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

if you have already submitted that defence as "not being the driver" , you will LOSE on the fact that the law changed 5 years ago and under certain circumstances made the keeper liable for a drivers actions

 

but you haven't..

 

 

42 minutes ago, EveOwes said:

I’m still very unsure about the mediation and why we can’t use it for a parking fee

what have you got to mediate about..,

they wont accept a reduced payment and the mediation service is most certainly cannot enter into any legal arguments about anything, they are not the judge.

 

.goto bed instead of fretting.

 

[FTMDave]

Understood Eve as to why your daughter doesn't know about the circumstances of the ticket and hasn't got the original paperwork.

 

Round the snotty letter time if we'd known this we could have considered dropping the ex in it.

 

Anyway, there's no reason why she shouldn't start drafting a Witness Statement.  What we have at the moment is:

1.  she wasn't the driver;

2.  the fleecers have no locus standi (no reply to CPR);

3.  The fleecers have no planning permission (no reply to CPR);

4.  The fleecers have invented £60 Unicorn Food Tax.

 

Have you checked with the local council if UKCPM have planning permission?

[EveOwes]

Hi. No I haven’t checked with the council. I think it’s Croydon council. All they need is permission to manage the parking on behalf of the land owners or leaseholders???

 

or have I misunderstood?

[lookinforinfo]

Eve, have you received the CPR from them or their Witness statement ? If you have can you please post them up as then we will be able to see the original PCN as well as many other things that will knock their case on the head.

[EveOwes]

I will check but don’t think I’ve received anything 

[FTMDave]

5 hours ago, EveOwes said:

Hi. No I haven’t checked with the council. I think it’s Croydon council. All they need is permission to manage the parking on behalf of the land owners or leaseholders???

 

or have I misunderstood?

Yes, you have.  The fleecers can't just put up signs, they need planning permission from the council.  If they don't have that, the signs are illegal.

 

Most councils have a portal where you can look for planning permission, otherwise phone/e-mail them.

 

Generally the fleecers don't have PP because as soon as they get a contract they want to start fleecing and can't be bothered to wait for PP to come through.

 

Them not having planning permission won't in practise win the case but it's another useful argument to throw into the Witness Statement to show you're dealing with a bunch of spivs.

 

The matter of PP is on every single claim form thread here, which means you haven't been reading up.  I know you have a lot on your plate, but this is why I asked why your daughter isn't putting work into her own case.

[EveOwes]

Hi.  I cannot find anything on Croydon Council's planning portal.  That doesn't mean it isn't there but i spent a while checking and I can't see anything about parking for that retail park, but i wonder whether they have it covered in another consent, eg for a wider parking contract??

 

Re the SAR reply from UKPC, they're asking:

 

"Please can you confirm your identity as per the following for verification purposes (if you are not, we would need the information of the keeper of the vehicle as well as confirmation that you are authorised to receive the SAR documents):

i) vehicles registration number the ticket was issued against

ii) the reference number of the UKPC PCN

 

Yet I wrote to them with the court case reference number and their or dcbl's ref number.  So i can't send the copy of the council's liability order against my daughter as it's not what they've asked for.  The PCN number is written on the back of their letter of claim.

 

Also, dcbl said in their letter of claim that my daughter is liable as the keeper or the driver.  Where does that leave her?

 

So, shall I resend the SAR with the pcn number and the vehicle registration number?  I wanted to check because I don't trust them, ukpc know who the hell wrote to them, and their just playing around (as you said they would).

thanks

 

and i am certain that no response to the CPR request has been received.  Not sure what to expect as I can't remember what a CPR is

[FTMDave]

Regarding the planning permission, what you've done is fine.  You've looked and can't find it.  They didn't reply to a CPR request to show planning permission.  So your daughter can state all of this in her Witness Statement and conclude that she does not believe they have planning permission which makes their signage illegal.