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Getting banks to admit charges are automated


thegoodsamaritan
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Just ask them! :lol: (well do it subtly at least! If you've already hassled them about unlawful bank charges then this probably won't work)

 

As far as most of us staff are aware the process for charging customers is fully automated (thats because in all likelihood IT IS fully automated! ;-) ) So if you ask us at the counter this is what a lot of bank staff will tell you (surprising perhaps, but true). What you need is to get this "smoking gun" in print. And to do that you need to be a little bit sly...

 

Write a letter to the manager of your local branch saying something about the fact you've had charges and would like them to look at a possible refund (don't mention unlawful charges or court action because your letter will in all probability get fired off to another department who WILL know what your real game is here ;))

Make a point of enquiring exactly how your charges are applied - "are you responsible for applying them or is there a more senior manager who looks through my account and then applies the charges? Which person is actually responsible for keying the charges onto my account?" Ask for a reply to your points IN WRITING.

Now in the managers response you should hopefully get something back along the lines of "all our charges are applied automatically"

Success! Now you can start your claim properly using the processes here and if it ends up in court you have a letter issued by the branch manager stating that charges are automated (ie the charges don't justify the losses incurred by the banks) More evidence to help your case!

 

Good idea? Or have i just drunk too much coffee? I really think this would work, please let me know your thoughts and if anyone wants to give the idea a shot be my guest!

(Yes I work for a bank but am here to help! Please be nice to me! :))

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I think it's a great idea - we're only looking for a few people to slip up, and it's perhaps no more than the price of a stamp and envelope....

 

(which, according to those very banks, works out at around £39)

 

Surely worth a shot........

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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I have a letter from the Halifax admitting this......

 

The exact wording is - "The majority of transactions on your account are automated and all application of charges are automated. The only manual intervention around charges would be when a refund is made".

 

Made me very happy when I got that letter!!

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Wouldn't a recorded telephone conversation be enough? I had a similar plan to do with Natwest admitting they weren't service charges.

If you found this post useful please click on the scales above.

 

Egg - £400 - Prelim sent. On hold.

Mint - On the list Est £800

GE Capital - On the list (3 accounts!) Est £4000

 

MBNA - £545 Prelim sent 13/11/2006

LBA sent 1/12/2006

£350 partial payment received 18/12/2006.

Full settlement received 20/1/07

 

NatWest - Est £4000 not incl interest

Data Protection Act Sent 10/1/07

Statements received 24/1/07

Prelim sent 3/2/07

Full Settlement received 22/2/07

 

The contents of this post are the sole opinions of The Cornflake and not necessarily the opinions of any other members of this group. They do not constitute sound legal or financial advice and if in doubt you are advised to seek advice from a qualified professional

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Capital One have admitted in writing that some of their charges are automated in the letter we received back in response to our preliminary approach.

 

"To explain, we automatically add late payment fees if your payment is missed, arrives late or isn't enough to cover your minimum payment."

 

Just reading that again, though and it could be a bit ambiguous, so it might not mean that they are automated?

Don't forget to contribute to the CAG. Without them we would probably still be drafting our prelim letters.

OH Cap One - £436/ So far received £40. MCOL submitted 17/7/06. Caved 4/8/06 for full amount!!!

OH Monument - £140, claim filed 8th May. Requested judgement by default, settled in full 4th July via out of court settlement (see thread). Total £192ish received.

Me Barclays - £630. Received letter 13th May offering £300 full and final (they can bog off). Claim filed 16th May. Acknowledgement of Service filed 22nd May to defend all of the claim. Allocation Questionnaire completed and Stay been ordered by Judge on 18/7/06!!!

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Guest Alison82

I have it in writing too from Capital One, I'll scan the mods a copy (tomorrow)

or have a look at 'Capital One won't budge'

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can we use other peoples letters to back up our own case, where such an admission has not been received?

Bank of Scotland round 1: £740 + costs settled, still sore over the 8% grrr

Bank of Scotland round 2: £629 +101.15 interest +£39 costs settled.

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Wow i didn't realise this would be so readily admitted by the banks already. If only their legal teams knew what they were doing they'd go ballistic!

 

-Remember if you're going to record phone calls and then use it later you have to have their permission to record them in the first place?

 

-Yes I suppose you can use these letters to back up your case but they'd make a stronger argument if they're ones from your own bank.

 

-Well done to everyone whos got these letters already!

(Yes I work for a bank but am here to help! Please be nice to me! :))

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Guest Lueeze

Im sure you dont have to inform them if you record calls and want to use them at a later date!

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No you don't have to inform them when you're recording the call for your own personal use. Thats why the Met police commisioner got off for taping his phone calls about the De Menzes affair.

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If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

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By use the phonecalls i meant use them against the bank.

 

The police chief in question was technically allowed to record them because the only use of them was helping himself make notes of important points in his calls (at least thats what he claimed! :rolleyes: ).

He is not legally allowed to share it with anyone without the other phone callers permission so anything on the tape could not be used in court either.

 

Sure you can have the peace of mind of having a tape of a conversation where the bank has admitted charges are automated, but apart from listening to it yourself there's no real use for it.

 

Thats what I meant soz if i confused anyone

(Yes I work for a bank but am here to help! Please be nice to me! :))

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There have been extensive posts on this subject, and it is DEFINATELY ok to record calls, without making it clear you are doing so, and this can be used later - it's not just for personal clarification!

 

There is a small point, and a very unlikely scenario, whereby you cannot do this if the conversation can be accessed by another party, but this has no meaning to, or impact on, general phone users.

 

So, in short, record away and don't tell them!

..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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You are also more then entitled to type up a transcript of the call for court, if the bank disputes the version of events in the call then you can always inform the court you have the recording of the call. If the bank refuses to allow it's admission then they can't question the validity of the transcript.

 

I still hold to the fact you can record the call in the 1st place though.

 

http://www.seg.co.uk/telecomm/record.htm

 

Have a look at point 18 of the explanation of condition 7.

 

If in your first or second letter to the bank, you put the caveat:

 

"Under guidelines issued by Oftel in regards the operation of my SPL (Self Provision licence), I inform you that I may record any future telephone conversations with agents of AnyBank plc for accuracy and consistency purposes."

 

That way you're making best endeavours to inform them. Cover your own back.

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

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I'd be interested if anyone else has views on this. I'm looking for amendments to the telecommunications act as the information on that website seems to be only up to date as at 1997 but I can't find any of interest.

 

This means you could just send a standard letter anyway to your bank informing them that any calls may be recorded.

 

I'm not sure about the phrasing of 'accuracy and consistency purposes' - would this restrict the future use of such recordings?

If you found this post useful please click on the scales above.

 

Egg - £400 - Prelim sent. On hold.

Mint - On the list Est £800

GE Capital - On the list (3 accounts!) Est £4000

 

MBNA - £545 Prelim sent 13/11/2006

LBA sent 1/12/2006

£350 partial payment received 18/12/2006.

Full settlement received 20/1/07

 

NatWest - Est £4000 not incl interest

Data Protection Act Sent 10/1/07

Statements received 24/1/07

Prelim sent 3/2/07

Full Settlement received 22/2/07

 

The contents of this post are the sole opinions of The Cornflake and not necessarily the opinions of any other members of this group. They do not constitute sound legal or financial advice and if in doubt you are advised to seek advice from a qualified professional

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Maintaining accuracy and consistency is quite a widespread caveat. If the bank contests the accuracy of the transcript in court, you are more than entitled to produce the recording to prove accuracy of aforementioned transcript and as you have advised the bank of this prior, I don't see a judge refusing you permission to admit this.

 

I may be wrong though.

If the name of the claim is blue and underlined, click it to see how I did it.

  • Halifax - 1st Request for £3748.80 sent 10/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Goldfish - Unable to comment further, have a read


  • Lloyds - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 1st estimated request for £1500 sent15/08 LBA sent 08/09


  • Carphone Warehouse - Data Protection Act sent 19/04 Chased 04/07 ICO complaint 18/07


  • First National - 1st Request for £280 sent 05/05 Settled in full and 5% donated


  • Yes car credit - LBA sent 19/07 Court Action launched 26/09


  • HFC Bank - 1st Request for £100 sent 06/06 Settled in full and 5% donated


Like what I said? Hit the scales on the top right of my post. Cheers

 

Disclaimer - By giving advice, I am not putting myself across as a legal expert. Always seek professional advice.

Help the site, donate 5%, I have.

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There have been extensive posts on this subject, and it is DEFINATELY ok to record calls, without making it clear you are doing so, and this can be used later - it's not just for personal clarification!

 

There is a small point, and a very unlikely scenario, whereby you cannot do this if the conversation can be accessed by another party, but this has no meaning to, or impact on, general phone users.

 

So, in short, record away and don't tell them!

 

I don't understand, are you saying that you can record phone calls and them use them in court without the other party agreeing?

I always thought that this was a breach of the data protection act or right to privacy laws (or both). You can't pass video footage of someone, phone calls with them etc on to another party without the original persons permission.

 

This's what I'd always been led to believe but I'm willing to admit i could well be wrong being no law expert. ;) Maybe it doesn't apply to recording phone calls with organisations as they are not a person?

(Yes I work for a bank but am here to help! Please be nice to me! :))

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Yes, that's pretty much what I'm saying.

 

BF has even had a sound-file interview of a expert in privacy laws confirming it.

 

* Recording is not unlawful.

 

* There is nothing to stop you recording a call as long as you do not tamper with equipmemt which is not yours i.e. BT telephone lines.

 

* There is no need to give warnings that the call is being recorded.

 

* There is no confidentiality in the call unless you have agreed with the other person in advance or there are other circumstances which make it clear that the conversation is subject to a duty of confidenatiality.

 

* If you overhear someone else's call which is clearly of a confidential nature in circumstances which are clearly intended to be confidential then there is confidence in the recording.

 

* You do not need to inform the other party unless there has been an interception in the course of transmission and you don't have a warrant. This, as I mentioned above, is not relative for joe bloggs at home recording a call from a bank.

 

* You can make a recording and you can share it with everyone without permission - if the circumstances are such that the contents of the conversation are not confidential.

 

The worst case scenario for using this info would be that you would have to refer to it, having perhaps copied the script to a 'hard copy' alternative (i.e. a notepad). This is, for instance, the way that police use recoded conversations as evidence in court.

 

John

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..

.

 

Opinions given herein are made informally by myself as a lay-person in good faith based on personal experience. For legal advice, you must always consult a registered and insured lawyer.

 

 

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  • 12 years later...

This topic was closed on 09 March 2019.

If you have a problem which is similar to the issues raised in this topic, then please start a new thread and you will get help and support there.

If you would like to post up some information which is relevant to this particular topic then please flag the issue up to the site team and the thread will be reopened.

- Consumer Action Group

(Yes I work for a bank but am here to help! Please be nice to me! :))

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