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Armtrac/BW Windscreen PCN PAPLOC Now Claimform - no Permit Beach Road Porthtowan, Cornwall.


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then witness statement time.

 

dx

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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There is no need to inform them that PoFA does not apply. They already know they were too late sending you the NTK so they did not add the final wording of PoFA that would transfer the liability of the alleged debt from the driver to the keeper. They are pursuing you as the driver only.

 

I don't think that you have divulged who was driving so you have to put them to strict proof as to who was driving-they cannot assume in a Court of Law that the keeper and driver are the same.  Though they do dig up an old case where that happened but no Judge would fall for that.

 

The reason that keeper and driver are not interchangeable is that motorists with family often have named drivers of their family on their insurance documents allowing them to drive also. Plus of course anyone else with a valid motor insurance policy is also able to drive your car. 

 

So when completing your WS also refer to yourself as the Defendant or keeper. When you receive their WS can you please post it up so we can give comments that may help to give them more thoughts on withdrawing their case against you.

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Thanks very much for the help looking for info. 

 

Within my witness statement, should I include the fact that PoFA does not apply? I thought that they were perusing me as keeper from the wording of their letters.

 

Thanks very much.

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Yes, you should certainly include in your WS that they have not established keeper liability under POFA.

We could do with some help from you.

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That they have not followed POFA is a great plank in your defence as it puts them on strict proof of how they think they can transfer liability to the keeper, also if suing keeper any extra Debt collection Fee like extra £60 cannot be added to the claim against a keeper, that fee is referred to here as the Unicorn Feed Tax and is verboten to add to claim against keeper.

We could do with some help from you.

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thank you both for the help and useful information, I shall include these points on the WS. 

I'll being writing one up in the coming days.

 

Thanks again.

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Post it up here as pdf before you send it, then the team can help you fine tune it before you submit it.

We could do with some help from you.

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What you have written is very good, but I think it needs to be longer and fleshed out more.

 

The more arguments you include, the more likely the judge is to pick up one and chuck the claim in the bin.

 

We've seen some cracking WSs here where the OP has put sub-headings in the document so the judge can clearly see what legal arguments are being put forward: I like that.

 

So before (3) put a sub-heading NO KEEPER LIABILITY.  I think it's best if you quote the POFA paragraphs or include them as an attachment rather than just stating they exist.

 

Before (6) put a sub-heading INADEQUATE SIGNAGE.  Beef up the section a bit.  Point out you were in the pub and you thought it was a pub car park.  No signage communicated anything different to you.  Point out that Amtrac can't be bothered to replace knackered signs (in a more formal way ;-))

 

Before (7) write FORCE MAJEURE.  Point out the long walk you had to the campsite due to the impossibility of using the car.  Also that you didn't have all the tools with you and it would have been dangerous to repair in the dark.

 

I suggest then a new section ILLEGAL CONTRACT.  Point out that you do not believe Amtrac have planning permission for their signs and indeed their solicitors have refused a CPR request to produce PP (exhibit XXXXX).  Lack of PP is a criminal offence and a contract cannot be formed if criminality is involved.

 

Then another new section NO LOCUS STANDI.  Amtrac are not the landowner.  You do not believe they have locus standi and and indeed their solicitors have refused a CPR request to produce a contract with the landowner which gives them a right to conduct litigation under their own name.

 

Another new section DOUBLE RECOVERY.  As well as the £50 legal costs they are entitled to, Amtrac have invented £60 Unicorn Food Tax.  Go to  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/421775-vcs-spycar-pcn-paploc-now-claimform-no-stopping-east-midlands-airport/page/5/#comments  then scroll up from the bottom till you get to the final version of Alaska101's WS.  You can use virtually all of Alaska101's superb rant against the Unicorn Food Tax from (17) to the end, although obviously read it carefully and cut out the bits about letters he/she received that don't apply to you.

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I understand that the court date is 14 February.  Have you received a WS from Amtrac yet?

 

You really should not have let them have your e-mail address.  We have a case at the moment where another PPC lied and pretended to have e-mailed a WS and the motorist was put at a huge disadvantage as they couldn't disprove this and didn't know what the PPC was going to say in court.

We could do with some help from you.

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have they got email?

if they have then reply to their last email to you and state that this any any email address for me is NOT to be used for anything in relation to our mutual court claim.

 

do it now

 

dx

 

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Wow, fantastic advice! Thank you very much, I shall make the adjustments to the witness statement today.

 

I  am yet to receive the witness statement from Armtrac/BW legal!

 

I have just sent BW an email now, stating what was recommend by dx. If I'm not mistaken, by doing so, I have to send my WS by post rather than email? If so, is the deadline to send it out today? 

 

Thanks very much for all of your help!

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As a Litigant in Person the court will give you some leeway.  You can e-mail the court their copy on Sunday evening, within the deadline.

 

If you post the fleecers their copy on Monday 1st class they will have it 13 days before.  They are highly unlikely to moan about one day.  Should they do so, explain you were delayed by Amtrac refusing to answer your SAR and you having to involve the ICO.  Bet they wouldn't like that!

We could do with some help from you.

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Avoid email with BW Legal/Amtrak  they might use it to send you stuff 23:59:59 the day before the hearing,  otherwise incorporating what FTMDave has suggested is spot on, just post it up prior to sending for any tweaks .

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We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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You haven't sent yours yet have you?  Might be some tweaks possible as they don't appear to be using POFA, merely at 29 relying on balance of probabilities to transfer liability

 

 if Keeper the £60 at 43 still cannot be applied to keeper whatever the T & C's in the car park say, also was no need to redact the paralegal's name. from your pdf.

 

The team will be along soon no doubt to add what might be of benefit for yours before it goes off.

We could do with some help from you.

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Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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I'll have a proper read through this evening but I'm afraid in the meantime following Bolton Wanderers v Sunderland takes precedence 😉

 

However on first glance it seems the usual tripe and nothing that should worry the OP.

 

Love the hand drawn maps.  Very professional.  Er, not.  I think my son did better when he was in the first year at primary school.

 

I've just realised that the OP should include prohibition among their points.  If the OP can, it would be good to see an updated version of their WS this evening.

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It does look like tripe, as they are skirting around no POFA by look of it to bolster they don't have a clue who they are suing driver or keeper so are conflating them into one.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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My witness statement has not been sent off yet, no.

 

Sure, I'll try and get an updated WS up this evening. 

 

I thought the same, they don't seem to suggest whether they are suing the driver or the keeper! 

 

Lol the hand drawn maps did make me laugh!

 

Thanks guys.

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just post up alterations there is some scope for tweaking with that dog mess of a WS from BW who was the paralegal?

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

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Thanks for posting up their WS. A couple of questions first. 

I guess you were already parked there before 11.59 pm and is Beach road a one way street as indicated by the arrows on the hand drawn sketch. And were you parked on that stretch of ground just past the slipway and just beyond  and across from the Blue Bar.

 

Their sketches show a couple of signs just across the road from you-one at the Blue Bar and another a little way further up towards your car. Were they there on the night you got the ticket? I notice they didn't show the signs just before that layby leading to the slipway. Some of the signs allow the motorist to park before midnight and others do not allow parking at any time without a permit. Where was the sign allowing you to park there until midnight.

 

How much did you offer them to avoid going to Court?

Have you heard from the ICO?

Edited by lookinforinfo
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Hi lookinforinfo, yes, the car was left there at around 8PM. And no, the road is not a one way street. The area where the car was, is not within the sketch drawn. It was left slightly further up, past the slipway in the small car park looking area.

 

I am unsure of if the signs on the Blue Bar wall were there at the time. When I returned after lockdown, there were signs on the Blue Bar wall however (I have attached a PDF of the signs on that wall).

 

I regrettably offered them £100, purely for the reason that I am a student and it is currently exam period, and I am very short on time and so I wanted the case out of the way so I could focus on my studies.

 

I did indeed hear back from the ICO, and they contacted Armtrac. Funnily enough, the SAR arrived in my inbox soon after.

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Perhaps the more knowledgeable of you can advise on the point in the Agreement that gives Amtrac  the right/obligation to  'sue for trespass 'etc (3 c) rather than for breach of contract?

My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the Heart. Thank you

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