Jump to content


Armtrac/BW Windscreen PCN Letter of Claim - no Permit Beach Road Porthtowan, Cornwall.


Recommended Posts

i. 
On the 17th of September 2020, I traveled to Porthtowan, Cornwall. I have been to Porthtowan many times. 


That evening, the car was left in a small car park outside a pub named "Blue Bar", we have parked there many times before without issue.

The car park can only hold 5 vehicles, and it is more like a large lay-by.

 

The car was left overnight as one of my tyre's had a puncture, which was discovered after leaving the car for the day to spend time in the sea. We therefore walked to the campsite that night.


When we came back that morning with plans to repair the puncture, I had a PCN on the windscreen.

This PCN was unsealed, and stated that I had received the ticket at 3am as I had breached the T's&c's as I had no permit.

 

This came as a shock to myself, as it did the Blue Bar's staff. There are no signs, or road markings on this particular piece of land, nor is there a ticket machine - and so how could I get a permit! The small car park outside the Blue Bar is also off of the road, and so the car was not parked on the piece of road that the ticket claims I was parked. There are pay and display car parks in Porthtowan, but I was not parked in one of these.

 

I initially thought it was a scam and so I laughed about it and threw the ticket away.

I then started to receive letters from Armtrac, and now BW Legal informing me that I need to pay the PCN.

 

I have ignored everything, and I have now received a letter of claim from BW Legal.

I have done quite a bit of reading, but I am unsure as to what I should do next as I unfortunately do not have the PCN or any letters from Armtrac.

 

The file I have attached is the letter of claim I received. I have also included a photo of the car park.

 

Please could someone tell me if I should hold tight and see if I get taken to court, or if I should take some kind of action.

 

Many thanks.

 

 

docs1.pdf

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • dx100uk changed the title to Armtrac/BW Windscreen PCN Letter of Claim - Blue Bar Porthtowan, Cornwall.
  • dx100uk changed the title to Armtrac/BW Windscreen PCN Letter of Claim - no Permit Beach Road Porthtowan, Cornwall.

you must reply within 30days 

the issue here is the whole of that road from just past the last carpark is a private road

there will be signs as you entered the road

you can see the start as the google car doesnt go down there and take 3d pictures as its private land and the street view end at the ramp.

 

not that you owe it, nor that you should ever pay a speculative invoice but you must reply.

 

i'll let the regulars deal with a suitable snotty letter but if you type in our search top right

KBT cornwall 

 

there are numerous other threads about people with speculative invoices and how to reply to them i expect but this is the 1st we've seen for this 'area' 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

You say you've been to this place many times.  How far away from you is it?

 

If you could go back and get pictures of all the signage - or lack of - it would be very useful.

 

But in any case as dx says you need to reply to the LOC and show them you would be big trouble and would hit them in the pocket if they stupidly did do court.

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

I notice that in the picture of where your car was parked, there were a number of signs to the left and the back of the car park. If you could photograph those that would help  ind out if Armtrac have a leg to stand on. At the moment, to my way of thinking, the signs are in the wrong place to  qualify as relevant but perhpa there a re others somewhere else that may be better situated.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks very much for the reply's. 

Unfortunately I cannot travel to the area - it is a couple of hours away from me and due to current covid guidelines, I would be breaking the law.

There are signs as you enter the road stating that there is a £100 fine if incorrectly parked. There are a couple more of these signs further down the road, but not in the small layby/car park that I was parked in. The way I saw it was that you were not allowed to park on the road, but there was no issue parking in the small layby, as it was off the road and had no signage on that specific peice of land (the layby).

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

I forgot to add that further down the track from the Bar Inn where it meets the tarmac is a sign that may be from Armtrac, so could you please include that one.[It's the one headlined WARNING in red opposite the big car park ] Also there is a couple of signs opposite  Porthtowan Beach shop and further along  that fence nearing the beach are another couple of signs -one of which  says no parking.

.

Edited by lookinforinfo
Link to post
Share on other sites

Ihts all private land from where is drops down the ramp to the beach road from the tarmac.

and the signs don't say anyone can fine you anything.

 

Dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even if you can't get pictures of the signage yourself, get screenshots from Google showing their signs - or lack of.

 

You need to get a snotty letter off to Armtrac.  Post a draft up here before you send it off.

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks everyone for the reply's. I tried to take screenshots of the signs from google maps but they are unfortunately too blurry to read. On the 12th April, I shall be allowed to travel to Cornwall again, so I could take some pictures of the signs then.

On the day that I received the ticket, I had a puncture as previously mentioned and that is why my car was left overnight in the area. I did take a picture of the puncture after receiving the ticket, and the date and time is displayed on the picture. I don't know if I could use this in my defense?

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes you should use it. I have forgotten the term but it is something like the impossibility of carrying out an action. it would help if you did not have all  the tools  to change the tyre at the time you returned to your car, or it was too dark to do it safely or at all.

 

May have been difficult because the ground around the wheel was sand and you felt it unsafe to try it until you could find whether the ground could bear the weight of the car when jacked up or whether you should move it a short wat to firmer ground. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes it would be a frustration due to impossibility to move a breakdown is not Parking, the rapacious Simple Simon has lost on that so Amtrack could lose as well.

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think the term you are seeking is 'force majeure:- 

  1. unforeseeable circumstances that prevent someone from fulfilling a contract.
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

My time as a Police Officer and subsequently time working within the Motor Trade gives me certain insights into the problems that consumers may encounter.

I have no legal qualifications.

If you have found my post helpful, please enhance my reputation by clicking on the Heart. Thank you

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks again for the comments. I shall write up a draft and post it up here before sending. 

I will include the force majeure/frustration, and that lack of signage on the specific part of land of which I parked. Should I also mention how the fact that the ticket was in an unsealed packet, and was issued at 3am made me think that it was a scam? Also is there anything else I should include?

I am travelling to Cornwall on the 12th of April (6 days before the deadline for response) and take some pictures of the signs.

Many thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

It's important you don't play all your cards at once, otherwise BW Legal will think of lies to try to demolish your points.

 

We have a case at the moment where someone was being sued by a PPC, the motorist wrote a long defence full of sound legal points about why the money wasn't owed ... which just gave the PPC's corrupt solicitors months to think up ways to counter the defence.

 

Less is more here.

 

I'd be tempted to just write that their clients are too tight to pay for any signs to be put up and to get lost.  That way you are giving one valid reason to dispute their claim but have the frustration of contract/force majeure in reserve should they be daft enough to sue you.

 

As you say there is time yet before their deadline so plenty of time to draft and tweak a letter.

 

Yes, if you can get pictures of the signs (or lack of) that would be great.

 

As there is time before 12 April I would SAR Amtrack now (get a free Certificate of Posting from the post office).  It was a mistake to throw away the paperwork when you're in legal dispute.  It's highly probable they couldn't be bothered to respect the legal timelines when they sent out their paperwork, and it would be useful to know for sure.  A SAR is free so you have nothing to lose. 

 

 

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks very much Dave, and good idea. 

I have made the SAR and will send it off on monday. 

Should I send the snotty letter off to BW Legal or KBT? And should this be via post or email?

Link to post
Share on other sites

to whoever sent the paploc, reply by 2nd class post get a free proof of posting from any po counter.

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

Hi all,

SAR was sent almost 2 weeks ago now but I am yet to hear anything. 

Sorry dx100uk but what is a paploc?

 

"Dear BW Legal,

With reference to your most recent letter to myself – letter before claim, I am writing to you to inform you that I shall be disputing the claim and I will not be paying any money to either yourselves, nor your cowboy clients.

I am shocked that any company would work for Armtrac, a quick search on the internet would lead anyone to think that KBT is a scam. They are too tight to put up correctly worded signs in areas where they should be placed, don’t abide by legal timings, and then they proceed to harass innocent members of the public to pay their so called “fines”.

I suggest that this should be taken no further, for you would be a fool to take such a weak case to court.

Yours sincerely…"

 

Is this the sort of letter I should be sending off? Any criticism and suggestions is much appreciated. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

if you read the sar you sent you'd see they have 30days...

thats not really what should be in snotty letter and should be sent tomorrow.

 

paploc is what you received in your attachment in post 1 pre action protocol letter of claim.

 

have you not been reading up as advised since last month?

type BW snotty letter 

in our enhanced google search box on this page

 

 

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand that they have 30 days to respond, I was just giving an update.

Point taken, I will re-work the letter using the other examples on this page and I shall post it up tomorrow.

Thanks.

Link to post
Share on other sites

:rockon:

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

"

My Address and reference number

BW Legal Address

 

Dear BW Legal,

With reference to your most recent letter to myself – letter of claim, I am writing to inform you that I shall be disputing the claim as I do not owe your cowboy clients a penny.

 

It is your client’s responsibility to provide the correct signage in appropriate places (more specifically, a sign in the car park/lay-by would have been helpful) but they are obviously too tight. Also, KBT Cornwall evidently do not realise that an immovable vehicle prevents the driver from being able to fulfil their contract.

 

I suggest that this should be taken no further, but if you are foolish enough to proceed, then you should be aware that the claim will be firmly defended and an unreasonable costs order under CPR27.12(2)(g) shall be brought against your clients.

 

I may also add that a claim shall be made for breach of the GDPR for accessing my personal data when they had no grounds to do so.

 

Yours sincerely…

 

Copied to KBT Cornwall."

 

How's this one? I didn't go too much into the force majeure, just wanted to warn them.

Link to post
Share on other sites

i'm not so sure you should even mention signage at all.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

No they will cobble up some rebuttal and concoct signs

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...