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Returned 2 items using Hermes, Amazon received 1. Help.


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Hello everyone,
I will try to summarise my issue:

  • Ordered a small thermal camera and an 'add on' to an iPhone thermal camera from Amazon in November 2019
  • Returned both as poor quality a few months later using their own return labels and carrier of Hermes.
  • Upon querying why I received a refund for the camera but not the iPhone attachment, I received an email from Amazon stating '
    Quote

     

    We are writing to let you know that we received a plastic bottle instead of the original item, FLIR ONE PRO LT iOS Thermal Imaging Camera, in your return of order #204-0857260-5714700. 
    We expect and understand the occasional problem with a return. However, there have been repeated problems with returns on your account. We want to bring this to your attention because continued failure to follow our policies may result in you no longer being able to buy on Amazon.co.uk.
    You can learn more about our policies by visiting the Conditions of Use & Sale page at the link below:
    www.amazon.co.uk/help/conditionsofuse
    If you believe you may have received this message in error, or if you would like to clarify your order activity, please respond to this email within 30 days.

     

  • After some emails between us where I ask for proof of this 'plastic bottle' as I could not believe that something of that size could possibly have replaced the size of the small iPhone attachment, I received this:  Hello,
    Quote

    Thank you for contacting us.
    We closely examined your account, any related accounts, and your order history to ensure that any decision regarding your account was made according to our policies.
    We have noticed unusual activity on your account. When unusual account activity comes to our attention, we review each account to determine if additional action is necessary, including account closure. We would prefer to do all we can to help you avoid any problems with your Amazon orders.
    Your account remains open and available for your use. Please keep in mind, however, that we may close your account if you do not meet the terms of our agreements.
    We have written to let you know that we received a plastic bottle instead of the original item, FLIR ONE PRO LT iOS Thermal Imaging Camera, in your return of order #204-0857260-5714700.
    We are discarding the incorrect item that you sent. We will be happy to accept the return of the correct item at your earliest convenience.

     

  • Ever since then I wasted my time battling this by email, Live chat, etc. for both proof of the bottle and / or my refund, to no avail. I have explained that I used their own choice of return but they would not be moved
Please can I ask what I can do now?
 
 
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I've asked you a question on the thread relating to your digital content.

 



Let's see what you find out about that first

 

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Posted (edited)

Eh?  In this thread you say you returned a thermal camera and an iPhone add-on to Amazon, but apparently they claim to have received only (1) a "plastic bottle" and (2) either the thermal camera or the iPhone attachment, but not both (it is not clear which from the above - you say you got a refund for the camera but not the attachment, Amazon say they never received the camera).

 

But in another of your threads you say you did send a plastic bottle, but no mention of a camera:  "I returned two items to Amazon using Hermes. One was a drinks bottle and the other a small attachment to an iPhone worth £300."

 

https://www.consumerationgroup.co.uk/topic/421905-amazon-claiming-they-did-not-receive-item/#comments

 

It would be a remarkable coincidence to have two such similar but unrelated circumstances - one where you didn't send a plastic bottle and one where you did.

 

Is one of us confused?

 

 

Edited by Manxman in exile
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Understood. Yes, there was a ruddy plastic bottle - this was not sent in the same package. They did receive the camera and refunded me for that but they seem to not understand that the plastic bottle has nothing to do with this issue?

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It's very helpful that MiE picked up the point of the plastic bottle.

I understand now that in your opening post to this thread, we haven't got the full story.
You said that you had return to items – but in fact you return three including a plastic bottle.

Amazon say they received the plastic bottle – and the thermal camera was missing.

Presumably these were returned to Amazon as three separate parcels each one with its own label.

It now occurs to me that part of the problem is that you confused the labels and that the camera label was applied to the parcel containing the bottle.

You may disagree – but I think that this is extremely likely explanation. Amazon would have received the parcels separately. They would have not been linked that all is coming from the same sender. The parcel labels would have been scanned.

The iPhone attachment – being correctly labelled, was correctly logged in and credited to your account.
The thermal camera parcel was scanned – but then it was opened and it was found to contain a bottle.
What happened to the parcel containing the thermal camera – but labelled as a plastic bottle – we have no idea. Maybe somebody pinched when they realise that there had been an error and they decided to seize the opportunity.

However, it seems to me that this is the most likely explanation

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Well I think it's very good that you are open to the suggestion. I'm afraid it's important to be realistic here.

I'm afraid that on the basis that this is probably what happened, then I think you are going to have to let it go. If Amazon's return arrangements had been correctly used – with their label et cetera – and the thermal camera had been lost then you would have a complete case against Amazon and we could have proceeded on that basis.

However, because I think that we are now accepting that the problem arose from your confusion of labels, I don't think we can reasonably blame Amazon and so I don't think there is any point in going on.

I expect that Amazon's own records would eventually show that they had received a parcel which is labelled for a thermal camera but which contained a plastic bottle – and by coincidence you had also bought a plastic bottle from Amazon.
I don't think a judge would have any difficulty accepting Amazon's argument and you would lose the case as well as losing the cost of bringing it.

This will also confirm Amazon's decision to close your account.

I'm sorry to say but that the mislabelling by you of the parcels is probably what has prompted Amazon to consider that this was a fraudulent attempt to steal a thermal camera from them – even though it was an accidental mislabelling – and this together with your history returning items to Amazon – which by your own admission has happened a great deal, has prompted them to shut down your account.

I don't know how you are going to undo this. You could start opening up an account with a new email address – but you can be certain that Amazon systems will detect IP addresses and also names and addresses of credit cards and debit cards and they will very soon realise what you are trying to do.

 

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Quick one - just checked the DSAR logs and it says they refunded me for the bottle? I think what threw me was the 'dirty bottle' comment which really upset me as, believe it or not, I'm a decent chap and wouldn't have sent anything back like that.

 

They have never mentioned that they suspect mislabelling? I am happy to take the chance with a claim against them if I can have a few pointers?

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As I suggested, I don't think there systems start dealing with personalised assessments of problems. They simply this you down as being a persistent returner of items. I can imagine that their system hasn't even picked up the fact that you were potentially the owner of the bottle which was placed in the thermal camera packaging.

We give unstinting help here – but because I think there seems to be a general acceptance that you have probably mislabelled the package containing the thermal camera, I feel a bit chary about getting heavily involved in this one.

If you want to make a claim then you will have to make sure that you have got evidence that you used their label to send the parcel and that the parcel was received. Once you are sure that you can go ahead then you send the letter of claim and then issue the claim if they failed to respond within the 14 days.

However, don't forget that if you actually made the claim you would have to sign a statement of truth and as you have a serious concern now that there may have been a mixup of the labels on your part, I think you have to consider very carefully whether you are prepared to sign that statement.

As I said, if you decide to take this then I think there's a very good chance that Amazon will put their hands up because they are too big to start quibbling around with this kind of stuff which represents peanuts to them.
However, if somebody did decide to take issue – and realised that you had also ordered a bottle of exactly the type that was found in the thermal imaging camera package, then you might start to find that you have taken on more than you can chew

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I think I'm going to conclude by saying that this has gone on so long, it's all such a mess – partly because of your own record-keeping and memories of what has actually happened – and also because of your pattern of persistent returning of items, that I would suggest that you let it go.

It all seems a huge amount of work – expense in bringing the legal action – and a source of stress.

I'm trying to suggest you – as gently as I can – that you try to reset yourself to zero on these kinds of things and start being more careful about the records you keep, the way you deal with online retailers – and when things do go wrong, that you react quickly instead of letting it go for long periods of time

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I take your point....but I am willing to. I guess it would take time away from you guys though so thank you for the help so far.

Do please bear in mind that once children enter the fray, even the most organised of people tend to, at least temporarily, fall in to a state of flux. As well as the other things in life that come up unexpectedly. Ie - you’ve made enough comments about my (temporarily) state of disorganisation!

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