Sharkie v HSBC ***I WON AGAIN***

[sharkie]

I am about to complete my MCOL for HSBC, unfortunately we cannot remember the date the account was opened.

How important is this.

[steve_n]

Hi Sharkie,

 

Ideally you need to try and remember the month/year the actualy date is not important.

 

You could ask the bank, I'm sure they would tell you (of course you might omit to tell them why you want to know) LOL

 

Steve

[sharkie]

Thanks Steve

 

It was back in the mid 80's we think, they closed the account on us about 18 months ago without notice, do you still think they will tell us.

[steve_n]

Do see why not, they keep records for ages (even if they tell you otherwise)

[sharkie]

If these claims are about the relationship of true cost to charge, why can we not claim for ATM charges.

[steve_n]

I wish we could, and there has been lots of media attention about this - I think the general cop out by the banks is that the bank isn't who makes the ATM charge, it's the ATM supplier (often NCR make and install and operate them on teh baks behalf)

 

But I agree it's a rip off

 

Steve

[sharkie]

Thanks for the reply Steve

 

How is it that they advertise on the ATM that they will not charge certain customers, not just HSBC, and for a while pressure was put on them to drop charges as it did not reflect costs, and also that you were removing money from your own account, and quite often within the banks premises.

 

 

also Steve (Sharkie)

[sharkie]

Recieved an offer today 18/1/07 from DG but have questioned the claim for interest on charges (point 1), also stating time limitation as my claim was issued 6/12/06 (point 2).

 

1. Quote

"Firstly we are at a loss to understand why you have sought to recover, what appears to be, overdraft interest from our client and, in addition, 8% interest per annum upon the interest. Please confirm to us the legal basis of your claim in relation to your claim from our client of what would seem to be overdraft interest applied to your account."

 

I used the complex spreadsheet and I can only assume they mean the overdraft interest content of the charges.

 

2. Quote

"Secondly, by virtue of the limitation act 1980, you are prevented from reclaiming charges applied to your account six years prior to the date you issued your claim. Therefore any charges listed in your breakdown prior to 6/12/00 are not applicable."

 

Obviously my original request started earlier, and therfore included charges relating 6 years back from the original approach. Does this mean you have to re-adjust your spreadsheet from your original approach.

 

 

The offer calculates to charges covering six years, plus 8% interest, plus £120 court cost.

They have removed two charges which are now not included at the time of (six year spread) the 8% on those, the overdraft interest content of the charges (as per spreadsheet), and the 8% on this interest.

 

I have to submit AQ by 23/1/07 and was going to today.

 

Any suggestions ?

 

Sharkie

[lizvp]

hi sharkie,

our AQ is due on 24th, and we had an offer from DG this morning. we too had mention of the limitations act:

'for the avoidance of doubt, wish to clarify that by virtue of the Limitation Act 1980, you are prevented from reclaiming charges applied to your account more than six years prior to the date you issued your claim. Therefore, any charges listed prior to 7th Dec 2000 are statute barred.'

this is clearly rubbish for so many reasons it makes my head spin, we are claiming from the date of our S.A.R - (Subject Access Request) and not budging!

its kinda comforting to know that this is just a new tactic and not aimed at us specifically. im going to send them a 'thanks but no thanks' letter and continue with AQ deadline.

cank vs halifax has some good stuff on limitations if your worried.

good luck liz x

[sharkie]

Liz

 

Have they deducted the interest on the charges as in mine.

 

 

Sharkie

[sharkie]

In my Offer letter from DG Just above the acceptance paragraph they are stating

 

"If you accept this proposal please sign and return the enclosed copy of this letter to us and we will arrange for a rebated to be credited to your account with Metropolitan Collection Services Limited"

 

Our account was closed with HSBC 22 December 2003 with a nil balance. We have never been contacted by MCSL or HSBC to say that we owe anything.

 

Suggestions again please.

 

Sharkie

[lizvp]

hey sharkie

you caught me just as i was replying to you again, synchronicity.

no, they havent deducted any interest, though i have just been trying to work out why they have made the offer that they have. apart from the bit about statute of limitations, it is a bog-standard offer of settlement, and stands at about £600 short of the total, which includes interest and court costs so far.

i have been looking around at some other threads and decided to give them a call; have left a voicemail and will post as soon as i get any response.

i dont quite understand why they would be questioning the interest, that doesnt seem to make sense. would it be worth calling them as i have and asking about it?

i intend to make it clear to them that i will not accept less than an offer for the full amount, not interested in their interpretation of stautute of limitations (im sure judge will agree with me) and i will not miss the AQ deadline while they mess around.

have you seen the new orders being issued by judges btw? heres a quote:

‘The Court of its own motion is considering striking the Defence out as an abuse of process on the basis that it has settled all previous claims of this nature. If the Defendant objects to this course of action it is to file at Court within 14 days, a Schedule setting out a list of all claims it has pursued to trial and all claims it has settled.’

i shall be including this on my AQ...if i need to get that far, hope this is some help,

liz

[lizvp]

yikes! our last posts must have crossed.

our account was closed july 2004, with a nil balance. it has taken us 2 years to rid ourselves of debt collection agencies sent by HSBC for £40 that wasnt owed. it all started with metropolitan as i recall, and once we had proven to them that no money was owed, another debt collection agency started- we have just seen off the 4th or 5th lot in 2 years!!

the final paragraph on our letter is much the same: 'If you accept this proposal please sign and return the enclosed copy of this letter to us and we shall arrange for a refund to be made to you.'

just this minute had call returned from DG. it was an administrator only authorised to return call, and all she said was that they had to be notified in writing and would pass our written rejection on to client. so i shall stick with my original decision to write them a rejection letter including a copy of our AQ with revised amount for the extra £100 court fees, and inform the court of the offer and subsequent conversation.

i do hope you dont have the problems we did with the metropolitan collection service! i really should get around to making complaints about that and ensuring there is nothing on our credit record; i would strongly address that issue with them if i was you !!

stop the presses!!!!

just had another call from DG, from the solicitor this time. i had queried this limitation issue with the admin woman (in fact i was a tad disparaging about this arguement), this call back was in reference to that apparently. we had a a chat, i raised the issue of approaching AQ deadline and said that i would be returning AQ with a covering letter to the judge advising him/her of the offer they had made and of the conversation we were having, telling the court that DG were aware that i was about to return AQ thereby incurring a further £100 cost. this provoked a complete volte-face! she asked for my schedule of charges- which i had just reworked to get up to date interest etc. including £120 MCOL and she has basically said that she is writing a letter offering the full amount to arrive tomorrow or monday, certainly before AQ deadline!

perhaps a phone call might benefit you too? i spoke to a rachel tomlinson as her name was on their letter.

well, while i shall not do the poultry inventory until the cheque is cleared, a quiet 'yeehaw' of relief is over due i feel.

i shant be too far from my computer this afternoon if you want to post back or anything, sounds like our cases have been fairly similar all along,

good luck,

liz x

[sharkie]

Liz

 

Couldn't get through only got voice mail, the Metropolitan Collection Services Limited bit has realy got me annoyed, as I said our account was closed 3 years ago and until I started this claim we have had nothing from HSBC, in fact they didn't even inform us the account had closed, we had run the account down to nothing following a lot of disputes, we paid a cheque in one day, and then a few days later it was returned to us in the post. Also there was no mention of MCSL when we got our first offer from Langdale.

 

regards

 

 

Sharkie

[lizvp]

i dont think they are answering phones sharkie, think they are filtering calls..just one more stalling tactic? i left a message and they did return call within the hour tho.

i dont really know what to suggest re metro collections. im just looking at our paperwork, and the last lot of DCAs to hassle us were Westcot credit services. the other half sent them letter and proof of no account to pay on 27th oct last year, but the reply came from...Metropolitan Collection services dated 10th nov. the cheeky so-and-sos just sent a letter saying 'account now settled'!!!!

you must have the last statement from hsbc tho, via your SAR, this should be proof enough that the account is settled!

i would suggest you get in touch with DG over this; HSBC couldnt manage a change of address for us (luckily old address was c/o other halfs parents), despite several letters informing them and numerous phone calls. when we got the defence papers with the AQ from DG, i sent them an e-mail with change of address and schedule of charges, and they seem to have managed to straighten it all out.

hope this helps and that you get some joy from them, liz x

[sharkie]

Liz

They were hopeless, which is why we dropped them in the first place.

Found some more numbers so I will try them tommorrow.

How did you get hold of an email address.

 

 

 

regards

 

Sharkie (steve)

[lizvp]

hi steve,

well i wish you the very best of luck and shall watch your thread with great interest!

found e-mail address on here...another HSBC thread, its for Deborah Daubney at DG, who seems to be signing off on their defense..look at your paperwork from MCOL: [email protected]

i sent her our schedule of charges to that e-mail address, then called next day to make sure it had been received. it all helps to keep your claim on top of the pile :>

Dear Ms Daubney,

Further to your Acknowledgement of Service on DATE, and to aid swift resolution, I enclose a copy of the schedule of charges pertaining to the above claim number.

While I realise that this information can be obtained from your client, in the interests of speed and efficiency, I thought it pertinent to ensure you had a copy also.

I look forward to hearing from you, and bringing this matter to a close.

this is what i sent in e-mail, and it certainly reached her; though we didnt speak to her on the follow-up call the next day, we were told that the e-mail had been received along with our schedule of charges.

might as well return a bit of the pressure they put us through, hey what

liz x

 

[sharkie]

Well I have phoned several times, and sent emails, finally got a call today to say that it is being addressed, my AQ has to be in today, and it will, I explained that but I was told by DG that "they understand that I have to stick to my timescale, and a letter will be in the post today". They could not tell me the content, only that it will be in the post today.

 

any suggestions

 

 

Sharkie

 

 

email addresses are easy to work out simply use there full name without spaces @hsbc.com all in lower case, obviously I can't guarantee any of this information.

[lizvp]

they dont seem able to organise the proverbial in a brewery!

we still havent received any paperwork from them, and our AQ due in tomorrow. i left a message this morning to say that we had received nothing and just got home to find an urgent message to call, with a direct fone number!

i foned the court on friday to see what would be best, and was advised to keep AQ deadline, but to tick 'yes' in box A to ask for a month postponment. i shall also include a note to the courts saying that DG were aware of the deadline and were happy for us to proceed, incurring yet more costs...im sure the judge will be delighted!

keep on plugging away,

liz

[sharkie]

Anybody know how to change the title, It might encourage a little more help.

 

 

Sharkie

[nettyg]

oh so dg are stalling us all with new tactics.. s.o.l

ok we just have to read up more information about it and still go for the jugular!!!

don't give up

good luck and let's hope you both hear something worthwhile in the next couple of days - all charges plus the aq fee on top.

netty

[sharkie]

Received new letter following email, and calls, now marked "without prejudice save as to costs"

 

Basically they say they will not pay;

1. Overdraft interest content of charges as per the spreadsheet.

 

2. They will not pay two charges that are now outside six year limitation based on start date of "claim issue"

 

They have however agreed that we do not owe anything to Metropolitan Collection Services.

 

My AQ was hand delivered yesterday in time, therefore, we go on.

 

 

Sharkie

[sharkie]

Has anybody had an offer marked "without prejudice save as to costs"

 

my understanding is that they wish to use this offer at the end of the case when it is found against they to attempt to claim some costs.

 

any suggestions

 

Sharkie

[lizvp]

yeah, ive been looking at that bit steve, heres a link that explains quite well:

Privileged, Without Prejudice, and Without Prejudice Save As to Costs documents. - Alway Associates

 

i was worried as i sent their letter of offer that was marked 'without prejudice' to the court. have fingers crossed that i shall get away with it hope this some help,

liz

[sharkie]

Liz

 

Have a look at this regarding "Calderbank Offers".

 

Department for Constitutional Affairs -

 

Steve