Abbey - what next?

[gem4]

Hi,

Doing this on behalf of my son as he has no pc, printer or internet access and doesnt live with me.

 

Have added up charges from all except a couple of statements for the last 3 years since the account was opened. Wrote a preliminary approach letter asking for the amount back. Got the standard 'looking into it' letter back followed by a refusal to pay up.

 

Sent the LBA letter from your library next, which also asks for a breakdown and proof of all costs. Received another letter saying they wont change their mind, their charges are in line with other banks and they are not obliged to provide the information I've requested.......and if I dont like it I can complain to the Financial Ombudsman.

I have a few questions.

 

Should I complain to the FO as Abbey suggest? If so, what about?

 

My son in unemployed so would probably qualify for a fee free court claim but it would be simpler for me to do the moneyclaim online. However, for this I would need to pay with my own credit/debit card as he doesnt have one....is this permitted or does he need to pay himself?

Is it even possible for me to do the claim online on his behalf?

 

The deadline was up on 30th Nov so we do need to start the claim asap. What do I put on it? Can you point me in the right direction please?

Do I need to write to Abbey for a third time telling them I've made a court claim and giving them the new amount (inc 8% + costs)?

Any answers gratefully received.

[Armsoft]

Gem,

Firstly, Welcome to the site:)

 

Your next stage needs to be filing in court, and there is a template N1 Form completion which you can use in the Library.

 

There would not be a problem with you filing on MCOL, you just put your Sons details in, and at the end use your card to Pay (I`ve done the same for my son against Halifax).

You`ll get the court costs back from the Abbey as part of your settlement (all explained on the N1 template), but be prepared for a long wait as Abbey like to take it to the wire before settleing (sometimes on the steps of the court!).

 

You don`t need to let Abbey know you filed, the court will do that for you:-D

 

Hope this is of help.

.

.

[gem4]

Thanks for that, I'll get onto it right away.

[gem4]

Sorry, one other question.

I have been using my own address for my son's correspondence, i.e. His name, c/o my address, so that I can keep on top of how things are going.

 

On the moneyclaim website for the court should I use the same address as on all the previous correspondence, or should I put my son's own address? Not sure about the legal technicalities of changing the address now after the initial letters. Problem is, where he lives the post is very unreliable and lots dont get delivered.

Cheers.

[gem4]

Hi,

I'm tackling Abbey on behalf of my son.

Thanks to other posts on the forum I've managed to get as far as the Allocation Questionnaire which arrived yesterday.

Abbey seem to have sent a standard letter offering half the amount claimed and denying everything, enclosing their defence statement.

 

I have until 3rd Feb to complete and return the AQ and I've read all the threads regarding completing it. However I've got to a point where I'm reading so much information I'm getting muddled so would like a bit of help to untangle myself please.

 

There is a section asking for other info on the N149. There are a few points I would like to raise to both Abbey and the Court. Is this where I put those?

 

EG. I have a couple of statements which show a +ve balance until they added charges of £96.

Then they charged interest at 27%, unauthorised rate.

I also have a letter saying that they had cancelled all direct debits and standing orders until such time as funds permit.

BUT...2 days after that letter they PAID 2 direct debits which had previously been cancelled with AOL, and then added further interest at 27%. This is blatantly contradicting their letter, and is surely unfair?

 

At this time my son was unemployed so had to open a new account elsewhere for his jobseeker money to be paid in where Abbey couldnt swallow it.

 

One of their defence points states that we could have asked for an overdraft. The letter I have clearly states that no overdraft facility is available on the account. So that is also a contradiction.

 

How do I put this information in the extra comments section and is it necessary? Or do I write it in a statement and refer to it in the comments section?

Am I totally confused and should be putting something else in that section? Do I send Abbey a copy of the AQ?

 

Do I write to Abbey thanking them for their offer of 'half' but saying I'll see them in court?

To all intents and purposes the account has been closed since 2005 and if they pay it into that account it will be swallowed up with the overdrawn balance they have caused by their charges and my son will not be able to withdraw any as he doesnt have the card.

 

I previously requested a cheque but they have made no reference to this in their offer letter. (clearly as its a bog-standard letter)

Can anything be charged for these constant letters at recorded delivery to them because of their time-wasting? If so whats a respectable charge?

Ooooh.....my head hurts!

[Lula]

LOL Gem, thats a big help, firstly you can read the Allocation questionnaires guide to completion here http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

secondly, i would write back to the abbey solicitors with a polite refusal

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/25716-rejection-settlement-offer.html

 

just amend it to suit yourself

 

what interest rate have you used for your interest calculation?

[gem4]

Hi again. I've scoured the AQ thread over the past few weeks and most of it is clear, its just the bit where it asks for comments to help my case. Is there a 'correct' way to complete this section or do I just explain in my own words why I want the money back? I cant find any tips on that section although I'm sure I did read something somewhere (unless I'm getting confused with the court bundle)

 

The interest rate I charged was the statutory 8% although I'm thinking that since it was they who forced the account to go overdrawn in the first place it should be the contractual rate of 27%........lol

 

If I send them a letter rejecting their offer, can I re-iterate the bit about the default notice on his credit reference. It was only referred to in my prelim letter months ago and hasnt been mentioned since.

It also hasnt been mentioned on the court claim form.

Can it be entered on the Allocation Questionnaire?

 

I dont want to mess up at this stage. I need to get the court bundle sorted out in readiness too and having a problem sifting thru which details to put. As I said in my last post I've read so much info I'm sure I'm getting all mixed up.

btw, tried the links in your post and got a 404, but I have read them previously, thanks.

x

[Lula]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/bank-templates-library/11644-allocation-questionnaires-guide-completion.html

 

Hi gem, try that link, it should work, and as for the bit about the default, put it in in your own words if you cant find a wording on here.

 

Hold easy on the bundles as you may be able to negotiate before then, but if not hey ho, its just a bit more money

[Lula]

Hi, it didnt work for me either this time so I have cut n paste

 

Re: Allocation Questionnaires - A guide to completion

Notes for completing a small claims track allocation questionnaire - Form N149

 

An online PDF version of the form is HERE

 

Quote:

Section A - Settlement

Quote:

Do you wish any further action in this claim to be postponed for one month so that you and the other party can attempt to settle the claim either by informal discussion or by alternative dispute resolution?

You have given ample opportunity to resolve this matter with your bank / credit card company etc. so there is no need to allow further time. TICK NO

 

 

Quote:

Section B - Location of Hearing

Quote:

The claim will be heard in the court to which this form must be returned. Is there any

reason why it should be transferred to another court to be heard?

If the reply address is your local court, then TICK NO. If the reply address has changed to another location, then TICK YES and state that since you, as a private individual, are claiming against a company who carries on business in this location, then the case should be heard locally to you.

 

 

Quote:

Section C - Track

Quote:

Do you agree that the small claims track is the most suitable track for this claim?

TICK Yes

 

 

Quote:

Section D - Witnesses

Quote:

So far as you know at this stage, how many witnesses (other than yourself) do you intend to call to give evidence at the hearing?

Enter the number of witnesses you intend to call to give evidence not including yourself or any expert witness

Typically this would be 0

 

 

Quote:

Section E - Experts

Quote:

Do you want permission to use an expert’s report at the hearing?

Unless you know otherwise, TICK NO

 

 

Quote:

Section F - Hearing

Quote:

Are there any days within the next four months when you, an expert or a witness will

not be able to attend court for the hearing?

Unless you know of specific date that you cannot attend court (holidays etc) then TICK NO.

 

 

Quote:

Section G - Other Information

Quote:

In the space below, set out any other information you consider will help the judge to manage or clarify the claim, including any other information you consider should be supplied by the other party.

Give details of any other information that you consider will help the judge to manage the claim, referring as necessary to any documents you might have attached. Bear in mind however that at this stage you need not attach all other documents which you wish the court to consider at the hearing. This is something you will later be asked to provide.

 

You should state here that you believe the case will last no longer than 1 hour.

 

You may wish to add reasons why the case is more suitable for Small Claims Track if your claim value exceeds £5,000 or provide reasoning why the other side should provide evidence of their costs! You could include similar text to this....

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

 

However, the continuing problem is (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers) that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

 

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. I believe this would bring a rapid end to this litigation.

 

 

Quote:

Section H - Fee

Quote:

Have you attached the fee for filing this allocation questionnaire?

You should note that if you do not pay this fee it might lead to your claim being struck out.

If you are the claimant, depending on the value of your claim, you may have to pay a court fee. If you have not applied for fee exemption or remission, the fee must be sent to the court at the same time as your completed questionnaire - in other words, you could get help from the court.

If you are in receipt of certain benefits, or if this fee would cause you undue hardship, it may be possible to pay nothing, a reduced fee, or even have the payment deferred until a later time.

Contact the Court directly if you think this applies to you.

 

Quote:

Section H - Signature

This questionnaire must be signed by only the party to the claim, or litigation friend, or legal representative.

[gem4]

Hi,

Can you clarify a few points please?

 

Do I only send my AQ to the Court which it states on the letter or do I have to send a copy of it to Abbey aswell?

 

Whats the difference between an Allocation Questionnaire and an Allocation Hearing?

 

If they have made an offer with their defence to I have to refer to it in the AQ or not?

 

Can i write Abbey a letter refusing their offer as full and final settlement but stating an amount I will accept subject to conditions as stated by myself.....in order to settle out of court?

 

Cant find any answers. Thanks Lula for your info, although I've read and read that till the words all mingle........lol

[Lula]

Hi,

Can you clarify a few points please?

 

Do I only send my AQ to the Court which it states on the letter or do I have to send a copy of it to Abbey aswell? Just send it to the court

 

Whats the difference between an Allocation Questionnaire and an Allocation Hearing? The AQ is the pink form that you fill in and return to the court as the guide above shows, an allocation hearing is a hearing called by the judge to decide what track to assign the claim

If they have made an offer with their defence to I have to refer to it in the AQ or not? No

 

Can i write Abbey a letter refusing their offer as full and final settlement but stating an amount I will accept subject to conditions as stated by myself.....in order to settle out of court? Yes

 

Cant find any answers. Thanks Lula for your info, although I've read and read that till the words all mingle........lol

 

 

Hope this helps

[gem4]

Thanks Lula, thats great....just one more question then I'm ready to go.

 

I read something on here about requesting Standard Disclosure.

Also read another post from someone saying something along the lines of his being prepared to pay their actual costs if it was made known what they were, in asking for this disclosure.....although I cant find them now.

 

Would this type of thing be included in the 'comments' section of the AQ or not included until the 'court bundle' is prepared?

 

Abbey have said in their letter that I appear to believe they should not charge anything at all....which is not the case at all. But I do object to their turning a positive balance of £1.10 into a negative balance of £144 purely due to their charges.

[Lula]

Gem, put this bit in the bottom, it deals with everything

 

 

I am respectfully requesting that my claim be allocated to the small claims track. This issue is not a complicated one; it is an issue of fact and not of law. The issue is only whether the money levied by the Defendant in respect of its customer’s contractual breaches exceed their actual costs incurred. I am happy to pay their actual costs and I am surprised the Defendant did not counterclaim for these, because I would have paid them without argument.

 

However, the continuing problem is (in common with the 100s of other cases currently being brought by other bank customers) that the banks refuse to reveal the details of their penalty-charging regime. As the banks have a fiduciary duty towards their customers, they have a duty to deal straightforwardly and in utmost good faith.

 

Accordingly, I would respectfully ask that the court in this case, not withstanding allocation to the small claims track, order standard disclosure. I understand that it is in the courts discretion to do so. I believe this would bring a rapid end to this litigation.

[gem4]

Oh dear....I think I've confused myself further, can you help untangle me please?

 

This is the schedule of events from the date the account was in credit.

 

Oct 21st statement - opening bal 12p, wages in, charges added, closing bal £94 overdrawn.

 

Oct 26th, payment made to AOL even though it had been cancelled. Balance £110 overdrawn.

 

Lost job, no further wages available, opened new account for jobseeker benefit.

 

Nov 4th, letter stating £110 overdrawn and no further payments would be made until funds were available and account should be paid in 10 days or it would be closed.

 

Nov 21st statement, £110 overdrawn

 

Nov 28th, two further payments made to AOL despite previous cancellation and letter. Balance now £144 overdrawn.

 

Dec 21st statement, balance -£144 with note to say £2.37 interest would be added in Jan.

 

No Jan statement, no further statements, no idea what was being added to account.

 

Oct 26th 2006, almost a year later, debt collection agency 1st Credit wrote saying that £178 was owing on the account.

 

Here is the confusion............I originally requested that £258 be repaid, being charges added since Account opened.

Once I applied to court and added 8% interest making £299.

 

They defended and offered £149 full and final settlement.

 

However, if the account was closed and only interest has been added since and no money has been paid into it.........not all of the £258 has 'actually' been paid to them.

 

Surely this means that if they pay me a cheque for £258, I then must pay the outstanding amount as stated by the debt collector, £178?

 

£149 falls short of that amount and does not account for my court costs and out of pocket expenses, of approx £40 inc fee.

 

This was my response to them.

 

I would accept £149 as partial settlement only.

If they paid the original amount of £258 I would forego the court fee and interest, and that it should be paid by cheque.

They should confirm in writing that the account is closed with no further money owed to either party.

They should withdraw the account from the debt collection agency.

They should remove any default notice from the credit file.

 

I think I've messed this up haven't I? The charges that have actually been paid.....since they were deducted whilst wages were going in, amount to about £157.......although added to that since are the 3 payments they made to AOL adding £48 to an already overdrawn account and 3 charges of £32 each.

 

Help...........should I send another letter saying I'll accept the £149 in full and final settlement? Oh dear, what a pickle.....this comes of reading too many posts till my eyes are bulging and my brain is frazzled.

 

Would full and final settlement mean the £178 that the debt collector says is owed would be wiped out?

Would they pay it by cheque or keep it themselves to put towards the £178?

 

I have no idea how they reach the figure of £178.

 

Please advise.........I'm slowly going brain dead!!

[gem4]

Just printed off the Draft order for Directions to attach to my AQ but wondering how to phrase the short paragraph I need to put into section G 'other info' which refers to it.

 

Can anyone advise please?

[gem4]

I sent my AQ back in good time. The deadline was 3rd Feb. I've not heard a thing since then from either the court or Abbey. Is this usual? Should they have sent their AQ back by the same date? What happens if they haven't done that and how do I find out?

Thanx

[gem4]

Sent AQ to court well before 3rd February deadline. I haven't heard anything at all since. Is there something I should be doing? How would I know if Abbey sent their AQ back? Do I just have to sit back and wait for a court date or have I missed something?

[sam78]

Try giving the courts a ring to see what's happening. They may just have a back-log.

[livelylad]

Sent AQ to court well before 3rd February deadline. I haven't heard anything at all since. Is there something I should be doing? How would I know if Abbey sent their AQ back? Do I just have to sit back and wait for a court date or have I missed something?

 

You can phone the court and ask if they have submitted their AQ, also there is no set timescale to recieve a court date.

please stick to one thread for this claim you have four I shall get them merged for you.

[gem4]

whoops......do I really have 4?

sorry, thought all but this one were on my gem4 v abbey thread.

[Kerrie78]

Hi, My AQ went back on Dec 20th - I still havent had court date. My case has been passed on to a circuit judge in a town miles away from me. So now I have to wait for him to look at it even though my local court had it for over 6 weeks first. I think it depends how busy they are.

[MARTIN3030]

Yes amongst other things Gem have merged your 4 threads !

[gem4]

Received a letter from the court today saying its allocated to small claims track but it doesnt read as I expected it to so I'm a bit confused.

 

It says the hearing of the claim will take place on a date to be fixed at Stourbridge County Court and should take no longer than 1hr 30mins.

 

By 14 days before the hearing I must send to the court and the defendant copies of all the documents we intent to rely on at the final hearing. These must be in a bundle with each page clearly numbered.

 

By 14 days before the hearing I must send the court and the defendant a copy of witness statements.

 

The next bit is what I'm unsure of...........

 

"Each party shall file and serve no later than 3 days before the hearing a skeleton argument of their case together with any case authorities to be relied upon."

 

Can someone please explain to me what this is?

What would I write for a skeleton argument?

[Andys Mum]

Hi Gem

I'm only replying to your congratulations for my win.

I have only just read your whole thread and I can't help with any of your latest questions. I did request at the Allocation Questionnaire stage that I could represent my son but because they settled before a date was allocated, I never did get to find out whether I could have done it.

If you need moral support I can give lots of that but there are lots of people on this site much better qualified than me to advise.

Keep smiling ... Brenda

[gem4]

Thanks for the support Brenda. Although I have confidence that they will settle before court its still a bit nerve-wracking. I'm just worried about doing something wrong.....especially about this 'skeleton argument' thing. I've not heard of it before or what its intention is.