bringing Packlink - Hermes - to small claim for £8.79 ***WON**

[Jackmeowy]

Hi, is there anyone experienced of bringing Packlink to small claim? Apparently they are trying to sneak their way out of liabilities by using an address in Spain. The way how they response is just arrogant and irresponsible. Can anyone shed some light in this situation? TIA

[BankFodder]

As you say, Packlink is in Spain.

Much easier to attack the courier.

Please will you lay out your story. Tell us what it was you sent – whether it was lost or damaged – whether you declared the value correctly and which courier undertook the delivery.

Read all the stories in this sub- forum – especially the ones relating to Hermes. You will see that we always win

[Jackmeowy]

Thanks for the respond. 

 

Long story short, the reason I am pursuing Packlink because I am a seller on Ebay. The courier is myHermes. The parcel is lost and the postage purchased through Packlink. It was a UK to UK shipment so I didn't need to declare value of the item when I was purchasing the postage on Packlink. The item is not extremely valuable, that is just a charger for electric toothbrush and it is insured with max pay out of £25. I raised a claim on Packlink and they refused for the reason - I did not contact them within 30 days of the posting date. Packlink did admit that the parcel is lost. 

I still haven't started to contact myHermes yet. However I am disgusted by Packlink customer service. I am planning to first, dispute the shipping fee through Paypal, then escalate this matter to myHermes, and if necessary, to small claim. Do you that this is the right direction to go? Thanks!

 

[BankFodder]

No it is not the right direction to go.

Read the stories in this sub forum and then check back here for a fuller reply tomorrow

 

 

[Jackmeowy]

Thank you will do  

[BankFodder]

I understand that we are dealing with a very low value item here – an electric toothbrush charger. However you haven't given us the value of it.

You say that no value was declared – but that is not correct. A value would have had to have been identified to arrange the delivery. The value of it if you arrange the delivery through eBay would have been the eBay value.

Please will you tell us what that is.

How much was the delivery fee? Did you pay an insurance cover?

Obviously this business of having to contact Packlink within 30 days is a load of nonsense however it gives them a hook to try and deny liability and 99 times out of 100, people simply accept that.

 

As you've correctly identified, Packlink is in Spain and it's not worth attacking them. You may as well go for Hermes and so on that basis you should put a complaint in against Hermes immediately – directly to them.

I would suggest that you don't give them too long – 10 days is probably okay. After that, letter of claim – and then issue the claim.

It would be very interesting to see how much time and money Hermes are prepared to spend trying to resist a claim against them for such a low figure.

If any of this appeals to you then please make sure that you've read around this sub- forum and understand what has happened in the many Hermes stories. Also read around about bringing a small claim in the County Court – although hopefully for such a small sum it won't happen.



 

[Jackmeowy]

Background: I am a private seller on ebay

Item:  brand new toothbrush charger with brand new travel case for the toothbrush

How I got the item: these were the accessories come with my electric toothbrush (cost £50, with invoice from amazon uk)

If I were to buy the charger and the travel case separately that would cost me £11.99 + £8.49

How much did I sell: £4.99 + £3.1 (postage) Total of £8.09

 

24 Dec 2020 - sold

27 Dec 2020 - Posted: in a Parcel shop

18 Feb

Buyer opened not-received case

same day, I refunded the money

contacted packlink - submitted a claim of £50

Packlink replied "your parcel is likely lost.","there is a deadline for claims." (conversation attached)

 

(Tracking up-to-today3 Mar 2021: "07:11 - Tue 26 Jan Your parcel is at our local depot and on its way to you")

 

What to do now:

I will contact myhermes 

-----------------------------------------------

(side story) The reason about chasing such a small amount with lots of works: 

10 years ago a similar incident happened to me when I shipped a sony camera worth about £500 via parcel2go with hermes, I opt-in for a signature service and the courier just dropped the parcel at the front door of the buyer (and lost). They refused to compensate me.

 

Today I am a mature student studying law and long term lurker in this forum, I have been reading different threads and fascinated by how knowledgeable you guys in contract law and giving out free professional opinions(pro bono?). I refuse to let these cowboys dodging their ways out of people's right and I wish I could help innocent people like your guys. The best way to similar myself with contract law is to practice them.

 

 

 

 

Packlink convo 1.pdf

Edited March 6, 2021 by Jackmeowy

[BankFodder]

I'm afraid on the basis you used eBay to send your item through Packlink and then Hermes, the declared value was £4.99.

Although that may not represent the true value, if this is the value that was communicated to Hermes – and this is the item that they agreed to carry – then I'm afraid that you won't be able to claim more than that.

Of course this sounds very unfair and it is certainly very disappointing – but the basis of it is that a contract is an agreement between two parties. You ask them to carry an item value £X X X in return for a certain fee. They agreed to do that.

I'm afraid that the agreed value is the extent of their risk and it is the extent of the contractual obligation

[Jackmeowy]

Current situation: contacted myhermes website's robot talk about the parcel and waiting for their email response.

Thanks @BankFodder

 

I understand that if I were going to pursue under contract law, £4.99 would be the amount that I am entitled for compensate. How about if I were going to pursue this matter under tort - negligence? Would this allow me to pursue them according the true value of the items?

[BankFodder]

Same thing. The fact that you declared £4.99 means that is the extent of any reasonable foreseeably consequence.

Just go for that small amount. If they cause any problems then you can have a laugh when they spend many times more than what you're claiming in order to resist you.

In future, when you contract with somebody – you need to understand that effectively it is an exchange of the reasonable expectations which you create in each other by your agreement.

 

[Jackmeowy]

Sorry for the late updates. I sent two LBAs, but I forgot to mention about "bringing you to the court after 14 days" in the first LBA. Therefore, I emailed another LBA with the important sentence. Clearly, they replied with the same content as they replied to my first LBA.

 

Today is the 15th day after my 2nd LBA. However, I realised the amount that I put in the LBAs was not correct - £9.09 instead of £8.79 and forgot to mention the fee charged by Paypal £0.70 (due to the refund). Can I still go ahead to submit a claim through small claim or I need to send another LBA again? I have also drafted my "particulars of claim" and there are few questions. Do you mind to have a quick look? Many thanks 

 

My LBA 22/03/2021 01.27 AM,

Quote

Parcel ID: ABC

Enquiry ref: XYZ

 

Dear Sir or Madam, 

 

On Monday 24th December 2020 I purchased your delivery service via Packlink with insurance of £25 to send a parcel to an address in Guildford, Surrey

 

I have now been told by Packlink and also by yourself that you have lost the item.

 

You should understand now that under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act, I enjoy all the rights of a contracting partner. Both Packlink and Hermes have failed in their contractual duty to deliver my parcel to its intended recipient. Due to your negligence, you have failed to exercise reasonable care and control of my goods entrusted to your care and failed to provide the contracted service.

 

 

The contents of my parcel were valued at £4.99 plus the delivery fee + packaging fee £3.10 and insurance cost totalling £9.09. 

 

I hereby inform you, that unless you reimburse me the above complete amount of £9.09 within 14 days, I shall issue a claim in the County court to recover this money from you, plus interest without any further notice. 

 

Yours Faithfully, 

 

 

Myhermes reply 22/03/2021 02.23 PM

 

Quote

Hi XXX,

 

Thank you for your recent email about your claim. I am truly sorry for the inconvenience caused to both you and your customer.

 

We’re 100% dedicated to ensuring every parcel arrives safely, but unfortunately, a small number do become damaged or lost within our network. If this happens, we will seek to remedy this and we are happy to pay up to the level of cover selected by you, for included items.

 

Please be advised when ordering/sending this parcel you used the eBay delivery service which is powered by Packlink shipping. Our Contractual Agreement for this parcel is with the eBay Packlink.

 

If require further information on this parcel you must contact Packlink.

 

Should you require any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

 

Vikas G

Claims Advisor

Hermes Claims Department

 

Particulars of claim - I have changed the amount from £9.09 to £8.79. 

Quote

Defendant's address: Hermes Parcelnet Limited

Capitol House, 1 Capitol Blvd, Morley, Leeds LS27 0WH

 

Date money became owed to you (dd/mm/yyyy): (The date when I posted my parcel or the date when I first contacted Packlink?)

Date you are issuing the claim (dd/mm/yyyy):(Today/the date I submit this form?)

Claim amount:£ Without interest. £8.79

Daily rate of interest up to the date of judgment: 8%?

 

A short statement (maximum 1080 characters) of what you are claiming for and why.

 

On 24th December 2020 the defendant agreed to deliver the claimant's parcel to an address in Guildford, Surrey, UK. The defendant failed to deliver the parcel and have subsequently reported it as lost. The defendants have refused to compensate the claimant. The delivery fee was £1.45 paid through Packlink in Ebay.

 

Parcel reference no: XYZ

The lost of the parcel was caused by the defendants own negligence. The claimant brings this action under the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999. Claimant seeks the value of the item £4.99 plus delivery, packaging and insurance costs £3.1, plus Paypal fee £0.7, plus interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts act 1984.

 

 

Edited April 6, 2021 by Jackmeowy

[BankFodder]

The letter of claim is okay.

I don't really understand what you're doing with the particulars of claim. I don't understand when you are saying that the packaging et cetera costs are £3.1. Do you mean £3.01 or £3.10? The same for the PayPal fee.

Also, as in the PayPal fee included in the price you paid for the item? In other words you are paid £4.99 and PayPal deducted their fee from that.

If that's the case then you are claiming marginally more than you lost.

Please will you post the final draft your particulars of claim here before you click it off. You should have done that with your letter of claim as well

[Jackmeowy]

Thanks for the response. 

 

When I refund the buyer, Paypal keeps the fee. In this case is £0.7. On the other hand, Packaging + shipping + insurance is £3.1. (I have attached the Paypal invoice)

 

I mentioned £9.09 instead of £8.79 in both of my LBAs, do I need to send myHermes the third LBA as I put the wrong claim amount previously? Or I can go straight to MCOL?

 

 

Screenshot 2021-04-07 at 15.55.55.pdf

[BankFodder]

I've already said that the LBA is fine.

I've also asked you about the figures of £3.1 and £0.7 – and you haven't responded to this. Please will you address the questions that are being put to you

[Jackmeowy]

Sorry I am a bit confused. I have attached Paypal invoice trying to clear the misunderstanding but seems like that did not addressing your questions. Basically, Paypal pocket the fees and the seller has to bear the loss. When I refund the buyer, Paypal keeps the fee, I still have to refund the full amount. In my case, I received £7.39 and I refunded £8.09 to the buyer.

 

£3.10 was what I charged the buyer for the shipping plus insurance plus packaging. The Net shipping fee paid to Packlink is £1.45 including insurance (up to £25).

 

Am I answering your questions or you are looking for something else? Thanks. 

[Jackmeowy]

As of today, I submitted the claim. This is for my own record.

[Jackmeowy]

I have received the "acknowledgement of service" today, do I need to response to this letter? Thanks.

[AndyOrch]

No...just keep your eye on their defence submitting date..claim issued 15th April...defence due Mon 17th May 4.00pm.

 

Andy

[BankFodder]

Please read this sub- forum's posts on the Hermes stories and also the steps involved taking a small claim in the County Court.
If you need to ask questions and am afraid it means that you haven't read them properly.

It will help you enormously to be confident of the answers to these questions and to understand the steps in advance.

[Jackmeowy]

Thanks so much guys

[Jackmeowy]

Received the defence from Hermes via court post on wednesday.

Just filled in DQ and opt for meditation 
going to post it tomorrow

This is a link I found it very helpful, decided to stick it here as a note for myself

 

[BankFodder]

Please post-op the defence in pdf format.

 

It's probably the same as all the others but it is better that we see it.

[Jackmeowy]

The defence from Hermes Parcelnet Limited, TIA

 

 

 

 

Adobe Scan 23 May 2021.pdf

[BankFodder]

Not only are these people stupid but also they are abusive of the court system. They are using up the scarce resource of tax payers money – a taxpayer funded small claim system to try and cause you problems to frighten you into giving up.

As usual, they are saying that you are suing the wrong person. Of course they know as well as we do that you enjoy complete rights has a beneficial third party because of the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999.
Because they know this already, and yet they pretend they don't, their defence amounts to an abuse of process.

Secondly, they want you to prove that the value of your parcel was 33 quid.

£33! For Christ's sake.

The amount of money that they will spend dealing with this is going to be several times that sum even taking into consideration the court fees which they will eventually have to pay tax which will be much larger than the amount claimed.

Anyway, it will go to mediation. Let us know when you get the date – but make sure you look at the mediation summaries on this forum. You may well come under pressure from the mediator to give up your court costs or something.
If that happens, then you should tell the mediator that he/she should be ashamed and you can tell the mediator that you are well aware of the fact that they act improperly in bringing pressure to bear because it is being discussed on a consumer rights website.

Let us know when you get the date

[Jackmeowy]

I am going to stick this post in here as this is another very helpful post.
Notes to myself