@rapha : Clothing became unstitched after wearing and washing twice. Item is currently still within 30 days of purchase.**Settled**

[spesh88]

As per the title really. I bought "Men's Pro Team Winter Tights with Pad II" for £175 and they arrived on 8th Feb. I wore twice and washed immediately after wearing. I then saw that the stitching had come undone from the seam significantly, unravelling up the leg. They are no longer fit for purpose in my opinion.

 

Am I entitled to a full refund? From my initial research it would seem if I return them within 30 days of receipt I may be, but I am unsure as they did not arrive to me faulty, but after I wore them. Nevertheless, is this not 'unfit for purpose'?

 

I contacted Rapha via email at their customer services and enquiries email addresses, as instructed on their returns/faulty goods webpage on Monday 1st March requesting a full refund and a process to follow.

 

Having received no reply, I contacted them again yesterday on Thur 4th March, advising them that i would return them today if I did not receive a reply by noon.

 

I have received no reply and their 'returns process' will not provide me with a returns number/authorisation unless I agree the item is unwashed and 'as new' i.e. saleable and unwashed.

 

I plan to return them to Rapha at my own expense and push for a refund. Do they need to comply? They state on their website they may return non-saleable returned items without refund/exchange.

 

Advice appreciated, thanks.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by spesh88

[BankFodder]

The answer is that if the defect manifests itself within the first 30 days then you can reject the goods outright. The assumption is that the defect existed when they were supplied.

You must assert your right in writing. So email them and then also confirmed by recorded delivery letter – as they don't seem to be responding – referring specifically to the consumer rights act 2015 and say that you are rejecting the items and you want to know what arrangements they are going to make to collect them, and to reimburse you.
Make sure that the letter refers to the email and that it is a confirmation of your email of that date

Do this straightaway.

How did you pay for this item? I suggest that you don't return anything yet. Send the letter and email that I have suggested.

[spesh88]

Okay, I'll hold off returning, but was conscious of the 30 days limit approaching (next Wed I believe will hit that). I paid by Amex credit card.

 

I will send a letter signed for today and reference my emails. In my first email I stated the following and included two images of the fault:

 

Quote

Hello,

As you can see below, I purchased these bib tights recently (I returned the size L pair and kept the XL pair). However, as you can also see from the included image, they are faulty. The stitching at the ankle and side seam has completely come undone. I do not think this is acceptable for a pair of bib tights in this price range.

As the fault has occurred within 30 days and I have also notified you within 30 days, under The Consumer Rights Act 2015 I am entitled to a full refund within 30 days. This overrides any returns policy you may have. The item is not of satisfactory quality and isn’t fit for purpose.

Please inform me of how and when I can receive a full refund. If you require me to return the item in order to process the refund, please inform me of how you would like me to do so.

Kind regards...

 

Presumably if I state again something like the above and mention I am rejecting the item, this will be adequate?

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

Also, as no address is specifically listed for returns (unless one goes through their 'process' which requires accepting only saleable items can be sent), I assume I should simply send the letter to their listed registered office?

 

Rapha Racing Ltd
Imperial Works
18 Tileyard Road
London, N7 9AH
United Kingdom

[spesh88]

Okay, letter drafted and will send signed for and also send via email in an hour. Thanks thus far and I'll update when I hear more.

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

I recently emailed you on 1/3/21 and 4/3/21 for a refund regarding ‘Men's Pro Team Winter Tights with Pad II’ from an order with your reference XXXXXXX. As of today you have not replied.

Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 I am rejecting the above named item and I would like to know what arrangements you are going to make to collect said item and to reimburse me.

A copy of this letter has also been sent via email today (5th March 2021) to [email protected] and [email protected]

Regards,

 

 

[BankFodder]

Absolutely. They must take responsibility for the return. It's nothing to do with you. You don't want to send something off – and then find that it's not delivered an then you have another argument on your hands because it would probably be down to you.

You must wait until they respond and either they make a reasonable arrangement for the return – which doesn't cost you anything – or they tell you to keep it – or something. The important thing is that they become responsible for the return and if you end up sending it yourself, you are simply following their instructions.

In terms of the credit card, well done – that you didn't pay by bank transfer, for instance. Get hold of the credit card company and begin the process of a section 75 claim. If they ask you if you have return the item yet, tell them that you have made strenuous attempts to reach the retailer and they are not responding and that you have a paper trail to show the messages you have sent which to date have not received any reply.

I suggest that you read our customer services guide before you start doing anything on the telephone. You've been here since 2016 so you do that already don't you?

[Manxman in exile]

Re a possible s75 claim - is your Amex card a credit card?  I ask because it certainly used* to be the case that some American Express cards, although commonly described as credit cards, were actually charge cards (where you had to pay the whole of the outstanding balance at the end of the month) and were not credit cards - and therefore not eligible for s75 claims.

 

*  I suspect that these days all AmEx are credit cards, but you might want to check to be sure.  If it isn't a credit card you might want to consider what you use it for.

[Manxman in exile]

3 hours ago, spesh88 said:

...

 

I have received no reply and their 'returns process' will not provide me with a returns number/authorisation unless I agree the item is unwashed and 'as new' i.e. saleable and unwashed.

 

I plan to return them to Rapha at my own expense and push for a refund. Do they need to comply? They state on their website they may return non-saleable returned items without refund/exchange.

 

 

Those considerations will only apply to "change of mind" returns within the 14 day statutory cancellation period* for off-premises purchases, or to their own returns policy, which will be in addition to any statutory rights you have.  (They can apply whatever conditions they like to their own returns policy, but can't take away or weaken your statutory rights).

 

In this case the tights are the product of a faulty manufacturing process (or faulty materials) and you are entitled to return them free of charge for a full refund within the 30 day initial rejection period.  I don't think it matters that you haven't actually returned them within 30 days so long as you have informed them in writing within 30 days that you are rejecting them.  They pay your return costs.  The fact you've washed them is irrelevant - you are returning them because they are faulty, not under any "change of mind" policy (whether the 14 day stautory cancellation period or Rapha's own returns policy).

 

(Bit disappointing really - I've always thought of Rapha as a higher quaility retailer of cycling gear - if somewhat expensive)

 

 

*Some might question whether even items returned within the 14 day change of mind cancellation period need to be "saleable" to qualify for a refund, but not relevant here.

[spesh88]

Thanks guys - really helpful and useful info. I'll take a look at the customer services guide and start a s75 process. I never call on the phone and always email or write, but yes I know if I do call then I need to record it

 

I'm pretty certain it's a credit card, but that's a good heads-up so will check that too.

 

I guess I'll see when I look into the s75 process with Amex, but I ordered more than just the one item so it would be for only a part of the transaction (the other was returned and refunded), I assume this shouldn't pose any additional problem?

 

(Yeah Manxman, I was disappointed with Rapha too. I won't go through the entire story, but in the end of over a dozen items I've recently tried, none have justified the price tag and I've only kept one item. They've also given me £35 then another £50 in credit in the past due to a poor quality item and a customer service mistake - that's all before this issue! I guess I *could* have just been unlucky, but in comparison I bought an Assos item for the first time recently directly from them and my experience couldn't be more different; real quality item and expeditious in delivery!).

Edited March 9, 2021 by spesh88

[BankFodder]

Well if you've now asserted you're right to reject – then you should go immediately and attack them.

The credit card route is useful if nothing else works – but it's not very fast – if it works at all. Credit card companies are notoriously reluctant and unhelpful on this kind of thing.

If you haven't heard anything in response to your letter of rejection within 10 days then come back here, and I would suggest that the next thing to do is to send them a letter of claim and then issue the court claim.

You will find that this is very effective – and if it goes to court you will absolutely win. At the very least it would be a good learning experience for you. You will acquire transferable skills and be up to sue anybody else who gets in your way with confidence

[spesh88]

Thanks BankFodder. I sent the letter signed for on Friday, but it's not been received/signed for yet. So presumably the 10 days is from when they receive it?

 

Just to be clear, you're saying I should still start s75 now anyway (and not wait 10 days), correct?

 

 

[spesh88]

Worryingly, the signed for letter has still not been received/signed for by Rapha, despite it being sent 7 days ago. I'll look into contacting Royal Mail to find out what's going on, but presumably the fact that I had emailed twice to their main customer services email addresses (from which I have previously had many communications), will be okay for the purpose of 'contacting them within 30 days?'

[BankFodder]

Don't they have an email address?

[Manxman in exile]

I'm sure they probably haven't, but you do know they can simply refuse* to accept mail that has to be signed for?

 

All you need to do is send it first class from a post office and ask for a free proof of posting certificate.  The Interpretation Act then deems it to have been delivered to the addressee two working days later - unless the addressee can prove they did not receive it, which is very difficult to do.  (That's why Notices of Intention to Prosecute for speeding are sent out first class by the police and not signed for - it's virtually impossible for the recipient to prove it was not delivered and thereby served on them.  If it's sent signed for, the recipient can simply refuse to accept delivery).

 

Signed for really hasn't any advantage over first class plus proof of posting, and in many ways is less useful.

 

*I'm not sure what the current position is concerning Covid anyway.  Is anything signed for at the moment?

[spesh88]

Yes BankFodder, I did email them twice to their usual email addresses - they haven't replied - despite replying to other emails I have sent to those email addresses.

 

Manxman, you raise a good point about perhaps nothing being signed for right now - I guess that's the reason - and thanks for the insight re: signed for and 1st class - I'll take that on board for future.

 

I guess I'll just wait until the 10 days are up from me sending the letter (Mon) and then proceed with a letter of claim and then issue the court claim.

[spesh88]

Apologies - misread the document below and edited this post now.

 

 

Okay. I plan to go ahead and send a letter of claim and then a court claim. I just want to check that the delay between my last comms with them and now poses no problem to me doing so, correct?

 

Assuming I am fine to go ahead, I will be sending a letter of claim using the info in this file from the page below - is that correct? pre-action-protocol-for-debt-claims.pdf

 

Basically, ensuring I comply with section 3 of the document, right?

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2021 by spesh88

[spesh88]

I've written a first draft - advice appreciated. if I include the standard reply form and info sheet from the above mentioned doc, is there anything else I should do? Is it worth included copies of the transaction/invoice and such like at this stage? they obviously have all of that, but could I suppose request info to delay/obstruct the process from getting to court I guess?

 

---

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

On 3rd February 2021 I purchased ‘Men's Pro Team Winter Tights with Pad II’ in both sizes L and XL from your website at a total cost of £385. I subsequently returned size L and was refunded £210, resulting in £175 being paid for size XL. However, this item was faulty - the stitching at the ankle and side seam unravelled significantly rendering the item unusable.  

 

I contacted you via email from XXXXXXXXXXX (to both [email protected] and [email protected]) on 1st March 2021 at 15:18 to notify you of this fault and requesting a refund. I also provided photographic evidence of the fault. You did not reply, despite a member of your customer services team replying to earlier emails on other issues from this email address within the previous 14 days.

 

I contacted you again using the same email addresses on 4th March 2021 at 09:07, yet you did not reply. On 5th March 2021 I sent you a letter via Royal Mail (of which I have proof of postage) rejecting the above named item under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and requesting arrangements for you to collect the item and provide reimbursement – a copy was sent via email at 12:43 on the same day to the same email addresses as before. You did not reply to my email or letter.

 

I therefore require you to pay me £175 for the faulty item directly to my credit card used for payment. As a county court claim has not yet been issued, no interest, fees or charges are claimed at this time. However, if you fail to complete the reply form or make payment within 30 days of the date of this letter, I will issue a county court claim.

 

A copy of this letter has also been sent via email today to [email protected] and [email protected]

 

Regards,

XXXXXXXX

 

 

[BankFodder]

Okay, the letter of claim looks good – but what has happened to the faulty item?

[BankFodder]

I suddenly noticed the question that you ask – you don't need to provide any other information. As long as you have a reference number on the letter of claim.

But I'm waiting for you to tell us what has happened to the faulty item

Also, to add – the letter should be headed "letter of claim". Also, why are you giving them 30 days? 14 days is all you need to give

[spesh88]

I still have the faulty item - they have never responded. Do i need to make that clear in the letter?

 

Also - I have updated the letter to include their order ref and payment ref.

 

I thought I had to give them 30 days, if it's 14, I'll amend to that. But I got it from the doc mentioned above:

 

The Pre-Action Protocol for Debt Claims is made by the Master of the Rolls as Head of Civil Justice. The Protocol comes into force on 1 October 2017

 

"3.4 If the debtor does not reply to the Letter of Claim within 30 days of the date at the top of the letter, the creditor may start court proceedings"

 

Relatedly, in all the info I read about pre-action protocol, it all seems very much directed towards businesses approaching individuals and not the other way around. Just to check, I am still supposed to include the standard reply form and info sheet from the above mentioned doc? Or perhaps i have misread all fo this and it isn't directly relevant to my case? My understanding is:

 

1) Send the letter of claim.

2) If they don't reply or pay in 30 days make a court claim.

 

But if they do reply, there could be back and forth as they request documents - which is puzzling because on MCOL I can just start a claim.

Edited April 29, 2021 by spesh88

[Andyorch]

Just send the Letter of Claim...nothing else....14 days is ample time. Starting a claim on MCOL has no connection to Pre Action Protocol.

[BankFodder]

But you should certainly mention the item. Point out that it is still in your possession and you are still waiting for them to organise its return.

 

[spesh88]

Thanks Andy,  BankFodder, much appreciated. I've amended the letter as advised and also removed the part about them needing to reimburse or reply, to just state if they don't reimburse within 14 days I'll issue a court claim - hope that is advisable. I'd appreciate you giving it a final glance over before i post.

 

Quote

[My address]

 

30^th April 2021

 

 

Rapha Racing Ltd

Imperial Works

18 Tileyard Road

London

N7 9AH

 

Letter of Claim

 

 

Dear Sir/Madam,

 

On 3^rd February 2021 I purchased ‘Men's Pro Team Winter Tights with Pad II’ in both sizes L and XL from your website at a total cost of £385 (your reference: order number 40762974, Payment ref: 4616123889728910). I subsequently returned size L and was refunded £210, resulting in £175 being paid for size XL. However, this item was faulty - the stitching at the ankle and side seam unravelled significantly rendering the item unusable.  

 

I contacted you via email from [my email address] (to both [email protected] and [email protected]) on 1^st March 2021 at 15:18 to notify you of this fault and requesting a refund. I also provided photographic evidence of the fault. You did not reply, despite a member of your customer services team replying to earlier emails on other issues from this email address within the previous 14 days.

 

I contacted you again using the same email addresses on 4^th March 2021 at 09:07, yet you did not reply. On 5^th March 2021 I sent you a letter via Royal Mail (of which I have proof of postage) rejecting the above named item under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 and requesting arrangements for you to collect the item and provide reimbursement – a copy was sent via email at 12:43 on the same day to the same email addresses as before. You did not reply to my email or letter. The item therefore remains in my possession and I am still waiting for you to organise its return.

 

I require you to reimburse £175 for the faulty item directly to my credit card used for payment. As a county court claim has not yet been issued, no interest, fees or charges are claimed at this time. However, if you fail to make payment within 14 days of the date of this letter, I will issue a county court claim.

 

A copy of this letter has also been sent via email today to [email protected] and [email protected]

 

Regards,

[XXXXXXXXXXXX]

 

[spesh88]

Quick update. After sending the email alongside the letter last week, I was contacted within a couple of hours by customer support.

 

I was immediately refunded the £175 to my credit card as well as being provided with a £75 voucher and an apology, acknowledging they had failed with their customer service.

 

A part of me hopes that it was a genuine error on their part to not respond to me previously, but the other part recognises that no action was taken by them until i sent a letter of claim stating that I would take them to court if the took no further action.

 

Either way, a positive resolution. Thanks everyone for your help and assistance on this one. Another donation incoming!

[BankFodder]

Great result. Thanks for the update.

I expect that it was the letter of claim that did it very nice that he got sorted out before having to get heavy with them.

 

[spesh88]

I suspect so too BankFodder! Thanks again for your help.