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    • Thanks for letting us know about this. I'm afraid that this website is mainly bad news about companies so it's very refreshing and very decent for someone to come along and to give praise where praise is due. How about a link to their website?
    • Having a little additional think about this, I think that your interests are best protected in the following way: You inform the seller that you are obtaining the quotes which I have referred to above. Having received the quotes, you then inform them that you are proposing to have the work carried out at XXX garage and that you will expect that the seller will reimburse you for the costs and associated expenses. You can tell them though that you understand that they may want to control the work being done to the car and so you are willing to allow them to do it but as the fault has manifested itself at this point and that it is clear that the problem is their responsibility, if they wish to carry the work out themselves then they will have to organise the collection vehicle and the delivery of it to you once the work is completed. Of course this will be very expensive for them and they will either fail to respond or they will refuse. Whatever their reaction, you would then go on to say that as they have failed to respond/declined the invitation to carry out the repairs themselves, that you are now going to your preferred garage – one of the two quotations which you have supplied – and you will have the vehicle repaired there. You are giving them an opportunity to comment. I think that if you use this approach, then you will be able to demonstrate very clearly that they had a choice and therefore they will be unable to disassociate themselves from the repairs which are eventually carried out at your chosen repairer. Even though this exchange of correspondence may mean that it will take a week or so longer to have your repairs carried out, I think you should do this in order to protect yourself in the best way possible
    • Please name the dealer   I would start off by sending them a letter of rejection seeing as you are within the 30 days. This doesn't mean that you have to reject it but it reserves your position. Secondly, on the basis of what you say, I don't think that you need necessary to find the cheapest place. You should be looking at the best quality that you can find. I think the best thing to do would be to get to competing quotations for the work you propose to have carried out – and not necessarily at the cheapest place, but a couple of proper reputable garages – authorised for that kind of vehicle. Inform the dealer as to what you are doing and providing with copies of the estimates for the work before you put it in hand. Give them five days to object or to make other comments. Make it clear to them that once the work is carried out that you will be looking to them to reimburse you. Of course you are opening a can of worms here because if you get some further problems – more serious – you may find that the dealer is starting to say that because you have carried out your own work so your own repairer on the car, they cannot now say that any defects were inherent in the purchase – and that they may have been introduced by 1/3 party repairer. I'm afraid that you have certainly fallen into a trap of buying a car a long distance away from where you live. We find that people often tend to do that because they think the car they have found is the only one in the world for them. They forget to factor in the difficulties that they will be if there are defects – particularly if the car stopped altogether – the cost of transportation to the dealer, the cost of having to travel up and down the country to collect the car – and of course these difficulties could emerge several times through the initial years of your ownership of the vehicle if you are relying on your statutory rights and expect the dealer to meet those obligations. Furthermore, if you have to bring a court action against them you are now dealing with multijurisdictional claims – suing out of Scotland against the defendant in England and that adds to the complications. It's too late for you to do anything about this – unless you actually decide to reject the vehicle – but at the very least, other people who come across this thread may get some benefit from these comments. I think it's important for you to get the best quality repair you can and to make sure that the dealer is aware of what you are doing so that if later on they try to deny responsibility for further defects, that you will be able to show that they were fully appraised of what you are doing and they will have less room to manoeuvre themselves out of their statutory obligations. I'm afraid that purchasing a car from one dealer and then having it repaired by another service provider, brings into the same kinds of difficulties that somebody who purchases a central heating boiler from one supplier and then has it installed by a different supplier find themselves in. When things go wrong, the seller blames the installer. The installer blames the seller – and you, the customer, are piggy in the middle. Not a good place to be. I notice that you are doing things on the telephone. Big Fail! Read our customer services guide. In your situation you should be extremely careful to make sure that you have got a record of everything and a full paper trail
    • What information do DVLA need for a provisional licence ?   Think the ID issue needs to be looked at a bit more. Surely you have birth certificate, school information, Doctors records. School and Doctors should provide a letter to help with ID.                
    • Amex as with any creditor must help you the FOS should go with you and make them remove all interest charged from the very 1st time of asking for help. the FCA regulations actually almost dictate it, they most certainly clearly state that if the are FCA registered they must help.   it's very telling they have no marked your credit file....almost as if they know they are wrong. it's also telling that an irresponsible lending complaint might well be in order hear too, they can just keep upping the credit limit without checking you can pay. and ofcourse covid plays its part here and they've already admitted as they allowed payments holidays until october in line with the rest of the industry and they should be continuing that. you problem is you keep using the phone, no paperwork no record of things discussed. i'd get an SAR off to them. and get the comms/account log and all the statements from day one and go nail them.
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Hi All, 

I would appreciate a bit of advice re a speeding offence. 

 

I lease a vehicle and the leasing company received a Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) dated  7/1/21  relating to an alleged offence speeding offence (fixed camera) on 12/12/20.   As soon as I heard from the police, I wrote back and informed them that the notice was well over the 14 days set out by the Road Traffic Act. and sent them a copy of the notice issued to the leasing company dated 7/1/21.

 

The police persisted in simply replying and advising me that the it was issued within 14 days! After four letters from me, asking them to explain how this could possibly be within 14 days, they eventually put a bit more meat on the bone and said that an NIP was sent out on the 15/12/20, which would, of course, be within the statutory time. 

 

I then contacted the leasing company again,  and they have confirmed that the only NIP that they received was on 7/1/21, otherwise, they would have contacted me earlier!  

 

The NIP dated 7/1/21 presents as an original notice, not a reminder; not sure if that is relevant. 

 

Any suggestions as to how to deal with this one?  

 

Many thanks.

 

 

 

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Presumably you have received your own NIP/s172 request after the lease company identified you as the person the car is leased to?

 

First thing to say is that, regardless of any questions over the date of the first NIP, you must still reply to your own NIP/s172 within the time limit given otherwise you are committing an entirely separate and more serious offence than any speeding infringement.  If you were the driver you should nominate yourself.

 

You need to be careful arguing that the first NIP was not sent out in time.  Note that it is only the first NIP that is subject to the 14 day limit, and that NIP needs to go to the Registered Keeper.  There is no time limit on subsequent NIPs.

 

So are you 100% certain that your lease company is the registered keeper and do you know that for a fact?  Please note that the registered keeper of lease vehicles is often not the lease company, but a finance company.

 

If the police are saying that the first NIP was sent to the RK within the time limit, you can be 99.99999% certain that they will have evidence proving that fact.  Assuming it was sent out first-class, there is a legal presumption that it was delivered two working days after posting, unless the addressee can prove it was never received.  So if the police are saying the first NIP was sent out within 12 days, the RK would have to prove it was never received within 14 days to provide a defence.  As you might imagine, that is very difficult to prove otherwise everybody would claim it.  Unfortunately, "reminder" NIPs are usually not marked as such and may be indistinguishable from the original.

 

So you need to confirm (preferably by sight of a copy of the actual V5C document as staff of lease companies do not always know) who the Registered Keeper is, and when they recived the first NIP.  If it was received after 14 days can they prove that fact (eg by a date received stamp and an appropriate system for dealing with mail received) and can they prove that they didn't receive an earlier NIP?

 

Hope that makes sense!  If it doesn't another poster called Man in the Middle will clarify what I 've not explained well or got wrong.

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Just looking at the date of the offence 12 December.  Possible was delayed in the post at that time as it was taking me up to 2 weeks to get a first class letter, then the New Year Shut down so to get it early January while the Xmas backlog was cleared seems about right to be honest.  Not that I am telling the police that. 

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Not much to say as Manxman has near enough covered all the angles.

 

Just a couple of points of clarification:

 

The requirement to serve the first NIP within 14 days is actually contained in the Road Traffic Offenders' Act, not the Road Traffic Act. In fact the first NIP is the only one required by law. Subsequent NIPs are usually provided along with the S172 Request for Driver's Details notice because they are both produced by the same system and are usually printed on the same piece of paper.

 

If you do decide to challenge the speeding allegation on the basis that the first NIP was served beyond 14 days the burden to prove that it was rests with you, not the recipient of that NIP. They have no basis (or need) to challenge it as the person prosecuted for speeding will be you, not them. As mentioned, once the police produce evidence to show that it was sent in time to be served within 14 days you will have to show to the court's satisfaction that it was not served. 

 

You need to be very sure of your ground before embarking on this course of action. You need to find out who the RK is and when they received their NIP. There have been one or two notable successes with this strategy. Here's one:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-45668735

 

The RK of the car Mr Beckham was driving - Bentley Motors - had a good system of recording when post was received and the court was satisfied the NIP was received late.

 

You don't say what the speed alleged and the limit is but if it was within the course or Fixed Penalty limits it will cost you around £100. If you are convicted following a trial it will cost you an income related fine, a "victim surcharge" of 10% of the fine (minimum £34) and prosecution costs which have a starting point of £620.

 

EDIT: In response to your latest post, when you got your NIP is irrelevant. It's when the Registered Keeper got theirs which counts. If they received it after Boxing Day you have the makings of a defence.

 

 

Edited by Man in the middle
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2 hours ago, Impossible2021 said:

Just looking at the date of the offence 12 December.  Possible was delayed in the post at that time as it was taking me up to 2 weeks to get a first class letter, then the New Year Shut down so to get it early January while the Xmas backlog was cleared seems about right to be honest.  Not that I am telling the police that. 

 

This is confusing.  Are you using a different username than the one you started with?

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Thanks for your comments which are much appreciated.

 

I did receive my own NIP and have notified the Police, in one of my letters, that I was the driver of the vehicle. 

 

You raise an interesting and valid point about the Registered Keeper perhaps not being the leasing company; I had missed that. I think that my next course of action is to ascertain who is the RK and ask when they received their NIP.

 

The Police say that an NIP was sent out on 15/12/20 , a few days after the alleged incident. So, based on what you have intimated, they are probably not bluffing and, if so, I am stuffed. I am now tempted, as one final roll of the dice, to ask them to send me a copy of the original NIP along with proof of postage. 

 

Its annoying as I was only doing 36 in a 30 mile area. However, at he end  of the day, it's not critical as I have clean licence with no other points.

 

Thanks again for your help.

 

 

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I am now tempted, as one final roll of the dice, to ask them to send me a copy of the original NIP along with proof of postage. 

 

They will almost certainly not do that. In asking for a copy of the NIP and proof of postage you are effectively asking them to prove that aspect of their case against you and they are not usually prepared to do that. 

 

For the speed alleged (36 in a 30 limit) you will be offered a Speed Awareness Course (provided you have not done one in the last three years and the offence was not in Scotland). This will cost you about £90 and will be undertaken online. If you don't fancy that a Fixed Penalty (£100 and 3 points) is the alternative. The police offer these out of court disposals on the basis that you accept the offence as it stands without any evidence (of all aspects of the matter, including the first NIP) being provided. If you want to see any evidence or dispute any of it the only place you can do so is in court. At that stage the course and fixed penalty offers (which are by far and away the best offers you will get) will have long sailed into the sunset.

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Thanks. Sound advice again. I will tread carefully. 

 

I have checked the first correspondence that they sent to me and there is no sign of an offer of a speed awareness course, I do remember being offered one a good few years ago but did not take that up at the time. That may be the reason for it not being offered again.  

 

Looks like my only option now is to shut up and pay up. 

 

Thanks for your input which is much appreciated.

 

 

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They won't have offered you a course when they sent the NIP because they don't know who was driving until you tell them.

 

If you are eligible for a course they will almost certainly offer it - irrespective of whether you've refused one in the past.  If they do offer you a course, I think you'd be daft not to accept it.  (I understand many drivers refuse because they think they'll be treated like naughty schoolkids, but apparently it's not like that and most people find them very useful and learn something new.)

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