old extinquished CCJ - finance company trying to claim

[Thomas s]

Hello

If anyone could point me in a direction on the below I would be really grateful

I had a debt with a Scottish bank (Clydesdale) when I lived in Scotland for 18 Years .

 

It now appears there was 2 joint accounts that was defaulted on after I separated from my wife and moved away to England.

 

The defaults according to Experian was late 2009 and early 2010.

 

There was a CCJ applied for (£2,511. )and on my credit file, for one of the debts in 2010

but was at an address I no longer lived at in England. (I left 2 years earlier)

 

I have now received a Northampton ccj for the first debt (1563.00 )that defaulted in late 09.

(the debt with interest is now £2,512)

A couple of questions if anyone might be able to help out

 

After a google it seems that debts in Scotland are statute barred after 5 years ?

is this still the case if I have moved to England.

 

Is there a defence that the debt accrued after I had left the address

or is the fact that I was a joint account holder make me responsible for the debt.?

 

I will be filing the acknowledgment of service tomorrow to extend for the 28 days ,

I am going to tick the box that I intend to defend the debt.

 

Many thanks for taking the time to read.

[dx100uk]

if it was taken out in Scotland then its Scottish SB

5yrs debt its dead does not exist.

 

 

yes if its was a joint account are you sure the ex has not used the account within the last 5yrs.

 

 

can you fill this out please

 

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?419198-You-have-received-a-Claim-What-you-need-to-do.-**UPDATED-December-2014**(1-Viewing)-nbsp

[Thomas s]

Great Many thanks for replying , I will complete the form

 

can I just ask ,

by completing the acknowledgement form back to the court,

i do just reserve the right to the 14 days extra to file a defence ,

I take it this does not jeopardise any defence I intend to put in ?

 

also the account definitely wasn't used after oct 09 as they had already put it into default.

[dx100uk]

ack on the mcol webite detailed on the claimform

you register as an individual

 

note the long number

 

then using those details

 

log in

select [AOS] - ack the claim

using the required claimform details

 

defend all

leave juris alone

exit mcol

 

the account being in default does not guarantee it has not been used afterwards.

 

if you are 100% sure its SB'd

 

then theres no harm in filing the Scottish SB defence

 

which I think runs.

 

The following defence is all you need if it is SB

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).

2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973, Section 6

If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract,

in excess of 5 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

under scottish laws the debt is now extinquished

.

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

.

Regards

 

dx

Edited May 5, 2015 by Andyorch
Legislation added

[Thomas s]

Hi DX

 

Thanks for the help, I have completed the form and questions , do I post them back on the forum here in a reply box or do I upload the word file somewhere ?

 

the account has definitely not been used since Oct 2009 (and possibly before)

 

is there anyway I can double check if it is a Scottish debt ?.

 

I am English by birth but lived in Scotland for 20 years and signed up for the account in Scotland

and continued to live there for 10 years after the account was opened.

 

I am now reading through the remaining advice list ,

if I believe the debt is statute barred,

shall I still continue to request the information relating to the debt ie original application form,

I assume that I may still require this information ?

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

paste the results of the Q&A link up here please

 

go ack the claim and file the defence

that andyorch has completed for you

 

its upto the claimant to prove its not SB'd

not you to prove it is

 

theres no harm is sending the current account CPR

but theres not remit that they must comply - its only a request.

 

dx

[citizenB]

Please do not get confused with what you are being asked to do.

 

1: read the link that dx provided in an earlier post and post the answers to those questions back in THIS thread.

 

2: once you have done that we can then advise further, especially in respect of your timeline.

 

3: You do not need to put any of the answers to those questions on your defence form.

 

However, if you are totally sure that the account is likely to be statute barred, then you can use the wording below for your defence.

 

 

 

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).

2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973, Section 6

If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract,

in excess of 5 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

under Scottish laws the debt is now extinguished

.

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

 

But best to provide the answers to the questions in the link above before doing anything other than acknowledging the claim at this stage.

[Thomas s]

Q&A Answers

 

Claim particulars

 

Monies due under current account overdraft.

The claimant’s claim is for the balance outstanding under a bank account facility Clydesdale bank PLC trading as Yorkshire bank (CYRB) agreed to maintain for the defendant.

It was as a term of the bank account that any debit balance would be repayable by the defendant in full on demand.

Despite a demand being made, the defendant has failed to repay the money due.

 

 

The debt was assigned to the claimant on 20/08/2010

THE CLAIMENT THEREFORE CLAIMS 1 £1622.68 2.

Interest pursuant to section 69 of the county courts act 1984 namely 704.29

& continuing until judgement or sooner payment at the rate of 0.36

 

Date of issue 17/04/2015 14 days plus 5 for service I calculate to be defence or extension by 6/05/15

 

Yes the claim is for an overdraft

 

The agreement was entered into before 2007 started Feb 1998

 

The debt was assigned to the claimant ME lll ltd 28/08/10 according to the claim particulars.

 

No notice of assignment was received as they were writing to an address that I had left 18 months prior

so I assume any notice may have been sent there is any were sent.

 

Judgement (ccj) was entered for the other account that I held with the bank at the my address on 01/03/2011

 

No default notice was received from the original creditor as this would have maybe been sent to the original address my marital home before I left in 2008.

 

The account was joint with my ex wife and I believe she requested removal from the joint bank account I think around late 2008 ,

I signed a form to release her from the account but was unaware that the account was in debit at this time.

 

I have not been receiving notices headed notice of default sums,

I have however received 2 letters on the same date in 11/2013 stating that no recent payments have been made

and that if no satisfactory payment plan are made then they will refer the matter to their client for further instruction.

 

Believe September 2008 . The account was used as the main account and would have had the sale of house proceeds in it,

Approx I believe that once this was divided between myself and ex wife that maybe insurances and a monthly credit card payment

that continued to debit the account or possible my ex wife used the account until it exceeded overdraft.

 

 

On the credit report the account has 2 markers in the default 49-60 months box

default date is stated as 13/11/09 at £1562 and current balance is £1622.

The default notes on the credit file show as cabot finance not Clyesdale.

 

Date of the last payments exactly are unknown but believe that a large sum of funds remained into the account until September 2008

and then I would have stopped using the account.

 

No dispute with the original creditor as I was unaware of the debt at the time.

 

No debt management plan as unaware of debt.

 

 

Thanks

[citizenB]

Your timeline is as follows :

 

Date of issue 17.04.2015 + 5 days for service = 21.04.2015 + 14 days to acknowledge the claim = 05.05.2015 + 14 days to submit defence - 19.05.2015

 

You need to register on the Money Claim online website with the password and claim number on the claim form. You will be given another reference number which you will then use to access the claim online. At this point, all you need do is acknowledge the claim.. but you should be quick because you should have done that by yesterday.

 

If you are totally sure that the debt is statute barred then you can submit the SB defence at the same time.

[Thomas s]

Hello

Thanks for all your posts helping with this.

 

 

Just looking to prepare the defence to send back to court and was looking to use the wording and defence in Citizenb's post of 5th May. I uploaded the answers and details of the claim after this was posted, so wondering if the suggested wording would still the defence I would use ?

 

 

Many thanks

[dx100uk]

have you ack'd the claim on mcol?

 

 

yes file the Scottish sb defence.

 

 

dx

[Thomas s]

Hi Thanks , yes I emailed it before the deadline and then I registered posted it on the day it was due to be in

(the bank holiday meant I couldn't post it any earlier) but I do have a auto email response so I have proof that I was in within the 14 days.

couldn't access it online. but will try to access again online to lodge the defence, if not I will register post it Monday.

 

so I am going with the wording below.

 

Thanks again for your help

 

1 The Claimant's claim was issued on (insert date).

2 The Defendant contends that the Claimant's claim so issued is a claim in contract and is statute barred pursuant to the provisions of The Prescription and Limitation (Scotland) Act 1973, Section 6

If, which is denied, the claimant contends that the Defendant is in breach of the alleged contract,

in excess of 5 years have elapsed since the date on which any cause of action for breach accrued for the benefit of the Claimant.

under Scottish laws the debt is now extinguished

.

3 The Claimant's claim to be entitled to payment of £x or any other sum, or relief of any kind is denied.

[citizenB]

If the debt is statute barred, then yes - that is correct with the SB defence. IMHO, I would be inclined to submit it as early as you can

[Thomas s]

Yes that's what I thought it will be in well within the time limits.

 

 

if they do dispute the statue barred status does it then go across to a court hearing to be decided, they cant just apply a ccj I take it ?

[dx100uk]

nope they cant.

 

 

dx

[Thomas s]

Hello

 

I have received a response back from the solicitors dealing with the case Mortimer Clarke.

 

The letter says that they are instructed that the matter was governed by the law of England and Wales and that their client would ask

( so I take it they haven't referred it to them) why I believe this would have any relevance to this claim.

 

 

They also have make reference that this debt was assigned to their client on dates in 09 (same as those I posted earlier in this thread)

so I am reading into this that their client they refer to may not be clysdale . Does this affect anything?

 

I am thinking that I will now ask them to provide the original contract that was signed as I believe

that as the agreement was made in Scotland with a Scottish bank (Clydesdale) that it remains a contract governed by Scottish law

and that my original defence still applies.

 

Could I ask if this seems to be the next step forward or if there are any other action I should take?

Also if the wording that I am looking to write back could have any improvements?

 

Many thanks in advance

[dx100uk]

IMHO until they can prove otherwise you do nowt.

 

 

next move is their which you'll get notice of

if they go anywhere with it.

 

 

dx

[Thomas s]

Hello

 

I wonder if someone might be able to clarify a problem for me.

 

I have an old problem raise its head again with cabot finance.

 

There were 2 bank debts that occurred at the same time that I was unaware off. My Ex wife continued to use a bank account and 2 the debts occurred.

 

I successfully defended a claim from cabot via MCOL regarding a SB debt 6 years ago. This debt had no previous recovery action on it and therefore SB defence was successful.

 

It looks like of their parent/sister company (Mortimer Clarke) company issued a CCJ for the other debt in 2011 but the court documents were sent to an address that I no longer lived at and had left 2 years previously so I was unaware of them until I checked my credit report and saw a CCJ on my file. The next time I checked back the CCJ was not showing. I did however manage to obtain a backdated report showing the CCJ recorded.

 

The CCJ is no longer on my file and no adverse information is showing.

 

I wrote to Cabot back in 2019 to say that I believed this debt to be statute barred and they wrote to say that as they had obtained a CCJ in 2011 that this was not the case.

 

The CCJ is no longer showing on my file and calculating that it would have dropped off around 2017 so is it in my interest to try and get this removed from old records? Is it a defence that the court proceedings were sent to an address that I had moved away from 2 years previously or would entering into any such action reignite the CCJ/debt.

 

I have looked at various comments on the Internet and from what I gather cabot may need to return and get permission to chase the debt ? Is this correct.

 

I no longer own any assets (other than a car) in the uk as  they are writing to my partners address as she still owns a property there.

 

Many thanks for reading my post, if anyone has any suggestions to point me in the right direction or confirm my thinking that they are just hoping that I will pay,it would be much appreciated.

 

do I just ignore them ? 

 

Thanks Dave

[dx100uk]

ignore them.

they have not enforced the CCJ in 6yrs and its virtually impossible now to do so, they would need to return to court to do so.

so since the CCJ you won by it being SB'd, have you moved again and not informed your debt owners?

[Thomas s]

thanks for the info. I thought that might be the case. 

 

I have been at the same address since 2009. 

 

in 2010 they wrote to an address that I lived at in 2008 and left in 2009. I assumed they collected that address from the electoral roll maybe. after investigation this is the address where they secured the CCJ at. 

 

The SB MCOL success in 2015 was from the same current address I am at now (and since 2009 ) and is the same address that they are writing to now. 

 

so no I have not moved, they just didn't write/contact for a long time

 

thanks Dave 

(thanks for the info and your time I have made a donation through PayPal)